Times are a changing

[doublebzz]

We stopped by the future cruise desk to confirm the rumor that HAL is only going to have lecturers on cruises over 15 days and were told "it depends". If you are on a 15+ day cruise on the Prinsendam in Northern Europe or cruising through the Panama Canal or around Antarctica, the answer is yes; otherwise probably not.

 

 

 

But that's ok. After 9 cruises on HAL in 5 years, maybe it is time for a change, especially when an Oceania veranda cabin is roughly the same price as a HAL vista suite.

 

 

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I also am disappointed that HAL is curtailing its "enrichment" program. It doesn't seem to me to be an expensive amenity as these lecturers are not paid but given reduced rates or complimentary cruises, as I understand it. I have also experienced volunteer lecturers from among the guests where the only burden on the cruise line is providing a space.

I, too, am broadening my horizon from exclusively HAL. I agree with you that choosing a low price cabin on an upscale line versus a HAL suite may provide a more enjoyable cruise experience.

[bUU]

Reading this makes me wonder if all the lines are basically becoming the same product.

So when we board Nieuw Amsterdam next year, should we expect the same kind of loud, hard-driving club music echoing through the atrium that we are looking forward to greeting us when we board Carnival Magic this fall?

[doublebzz]

So when we board Nieuw Amsterdam next year, should we expect the same kind of loud, hard-driving club music echoing through the atrium that we are looking forward to greeting us when we board Carnival Magic this fall?

Probably not in the atrium but certainly at the Sea View pool where I found so called music very annoying.

[Lizzie68]

For many people they have come to a point in life where the ship is their destination, for their vacation. I have seen this posted many times. They are not using it like a bus to get from A to B. So for them the shipboard life and entertainment is important. I was very fortunate to be able to do 4 longer cruises over the past 4 years and found that with each one something else was gone. When I think back to the first one it was a stark contrast to the latest one, where there was very little besides daily trivia (well, most days), the evening show (which wasn't every evening) and BB King. It has changed a lot.

[bUU]

I also am disappointed that HAL is curtailing its "enrichment" program. It doesn't seem to me to be an expensive amenity as these lecturers are not paid but given reduced rates or complimentary cruises, as I understand it.

This sort of evolution has been happening for a long time. I remember reading about the disappointment when cruise lines curtailed giving protestant ministers reduced rates or complimentary cruises, and more recently with regard to how cruise lines have curtailed their special treatment for duplicate bridge directors.

 

Probably not in the atrium but certainly at the Sea View pool where I found so called music very annoying.

I like that kind of music at the pool. I think it is a bit too much to have it in the atrium just as you're entering the ship for the first time.

 

Luckily, different cruise lines do offer different products.

[Ken the cruiser]

Thanks for all your comments. Personally, all HAL would have to do is have a lecturer speak on sea days and we would be happy. But that doesn't seem to be the trend. We're going on a 25 day Celebrity cruise in October and a Norwegian cruise in December, so we'll see if this trend is spreading across the spectrum of mass market lines. I have to say, though, we were on a 21 day Crystal cruise in May where a B1 veranda was approx $350 pp/day, which is less than we're paying for this cruise in a VS, and we had over 50 different things to do on sea days, the food was tremendous, the lectures which included at least 2 per day were wonderful and they had a great wrap around promenade. So there are still some cruise lines out there that are interested in catering to all of their guests rather than just offering the bare minimum.

[iancal]

The mass market cruise lines are not all the same.

 

Some are. We see very little difference, apart from ships within and between each fleet, between HAL, Princess, and Celebrity.

 

There may be slightly different amenities and certainly food, service, and entertainment is variable on and between lines. Hardly noticeable.

 

But for us, we don't see why anyone would think that any of the three was the be all and end all of cruising. And they seem to becoming even more similar as time passes.

[bUU]

It makes sense for RCL and CCL to each have their own brand serving that one market, brands offering very similar or arguably the same products competing against each other like AT&T and Verizon compete.

 

I'm not sure I can explain why CCL has two brands competing against each other, though.

[RMLincoln]

On our cruise last Fall we had three BBC presentations: Frozen Planet played in the show lounge one evening, two shows, accompanied by the onboard musicians; an afternoon BBC trivia game was held in the Crow's Nest; and a somewhat goofy BBC game show was held one afternoon in the show lounge. Some were better than others and i"m not sure I"d attend them again, maybe Frozen Planet.

I had the understanding that there are now more versions of entertainment from the BBC being offered onboard HAL, so maybe that is the new trend instead of Liar's Club, Marriage Game etc.

I don't have a strong feeling one way or the other about these things, I'm easily entertained by any or all of them, or none is OK too. I have no difficulty entertaining myself.

But I would really miss the lecturers on a long cruise with many sea days; usually these have added much insight to me on the cultures and histories of the regions on the itinerary, so that would be a loss, I like the immersion.

And without a librarian in the library, the reference books on the regions of the itinerary evaporate the first day or two, so I can't count on those, have to bring me own.

 

I'm interested to hear from others about their experiences on other cruise lines' cruises with many sea days. In 2015 we had a TA on NCL Jade. Great price on the TA repositioning so we didn't expect much..... (I think we paid about $1000pp for a balcony cabin for the 16 night cruise)..... but... they had a plethora of deck games and the usual cruise activities, many game show events, karaoke, and many presentations on topics from aviation, astronomy, ship navigation (with hands on sexton practice), genealogy, technology classes, and more. Plus they had excellent afternoon presentations by the ship's officers, lots of music even in the afternoons, movies, card player and dance classes, etc. too. Of 16 days onboard we only had 2 ports, so a lot of time to fill and I thought they did it very well with a big variety of activities. OK, so they weren't top shelf, high priced "name brand" offerings but there was something for everyone who wanted something. Seems NCL can figure it out.

Our long cruises on Princess go back a few more years, so it's hard to compare that with what's happening today. I'd be interested to hear from others about their experiences, and I will report back from the Atlantic Adventurer this fall. m--

[shrimp56]

I am sorry to hear about your cruise, and am surprised. Have just returned from seven day Alaska cruise on the Nieuw Amsterdam. A park ranger boarded the ship, gave talks all the time we did Glacier Bay, and gave super talk in showroom. There was also a talk by a native Alaskan that was fascinating. Sorry you did not have this experience.

This was our experience on the Trans-Pacific this last April-May.

 

However the lecture on geisha was given by one of the dancers reading from his iPad without illustration and none of the lecturers were native Japanese. Our Trans-Pacific2 years ago was a very different, and much better, story.

Edited July 26, 2017 by shrimp56

[jhsocal]

Lizzie68, think we are approaching that stage, taking a cruise to Mexico from San Diego later this year, first cruise for the ship rather than destination. Will be interesting to see how it works out. One big plus, do not need to fly.

[sammiedawg]

US Taxpayers paid for the services of the park rangers in Glacier Bay. All ships in the bay receive this as part of the national park service. Just like when you visit Yellowstone. The cruise ship provides lunch.

As far as enrichment speakers, I can go back years when there were none on Holland America. Even on the "vaunted " Prinsendam , 14 days. Destination "experts" reading power point slides is not enrichment. These talks are enticements to book ship tours. I asked local questions a few times and the expert looked up the answer in a Frommers guide book.

[I'llGoAnywhere]

On our Antarctic Cruise on Celebrity in February we had 2 excellent enrichment speakers full time, Mickey Live and a retired park ranger. They were crucial to making this cruise what it was. We went to each of their lectures every time they were offered.

 

In September we will spend 26 days on Celebrity on a TP and Japan intensive cruise. One of the Enrichment speakers has already introduced herself on our roll call. We're really looking forward to her lectures.

 

In June we cruised the fjords of Norway to the North Cape on the Koningsdam. They had NO enrichment speakers to educate us and enrich our experience. The cruise director read from a prepared script during our scenic cruising of the fjords. What a letdown.We were sadly disappointed. This trend to eliminate Enrichment speakers will definitely affect our decision to book future cruises with HAL.

[bUU]

For our upcoming Alaska cruise, I intend to spend leisure time reading whatever I can find that will help me better appreciate what we're seeing while we're there. Having the chance to internalize it and let it sink in before the cruise should make the experience far greater than having a ton of information thrown at me one day that I have to operationalize the next day.

[navybankerteacher]

Reading this makes me wonder if all the lines are basically becoming the same product. For several years, I thought I'd only sail on HAL, but their refusal to waive the single supplement (even on departures inside of 30 days) pushed me this summer to NCL. Honestly it wasn't that bad. Sure, the demographics were different and there was a lot more nickel-and-diming, but I could live with it when I wasn't paying a 100% single supplement. This autumn I'll try Silversea for the first time, and it will be interesting to see if I step off the ship feeling it is worth the premium.

 

One note: sometimes I see fares on HAL when booking far in advance which offer only a 60% single supplement. However in almost all cases, the price later dropped inside of final payment window, and then with the 100% single supplement it ends up costing the exact same amount of money as the early booking with 60% single supplement.

 

Let's hope HAL continues to offer a relaxed and genteel cruising experience.

 

Since all mass market lines are competing for new passengers from the pool of new cruisers in efforts to fill their ever larger ships, it is probably unavoidable that they will become more similar: they realize that their shrinking pool of determined loyalists must be supplemented by newcomers - so they will place decreasing emphasis on what used to make them special while focusing on the one sure common attraction: low apparent cost.

[iancal]

We are not looking for the lowest price but we are looking for value. Once we have selected a date and itinerary, then comparative prices are often a deciding factor vs. absolute pricing.

 

So quite often, while shopping inside the final payment window, we will narrow down to HAL, Celebrity, and Princess. It could be Noordam, Equinox, and Crown.

 

On some itineraries they are essentially the same. So we will shop on price assuming ports/time in port is similar. At the point where we buy the price differences can, and have been, as much as 30 percent. So when our price hits we book.

 

Same thing on our SA cruise. It was HAL, Celebrity, and Princess. Princess happened to run a great special for CAD at par and we jumped on it. Cannot remember the HAL price but the Celebrity Infinity price for the same balcony was a little under 40 percent higher. We went with price because we saw no substantive difference between the two.

[EDLOS]

For our upcoming Alaska cruise, I intend to spend leisure time reading whatever I can find that will help me better appreciate what we're seeing while we're there. Having the chance to internalize it and let it sink in before the cruise should make the experience far greater than having a ton of information thrown at me one day that I have to operationalize the next day.

I agree with you, I read the ship's MDR Menu everynight, internalize it, till it sinks in, so that I can operationalize it with my waiter. I makes me appreciate my dining experience so much more.

[bUU]

I agree with you, I read the ship's MDR Menu everynight, internalize it, till it sinks in, so that I can operationalize it with my waiter. I makes me appreciate my dining experience so much more.

Pfah.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2426414

[rkacruiser]

The cruise that the OP is sailing does not go to Glacier Bay, but to Hubbard Glacier and Tracy Arm for Sawyer Glacier. I believe it is only the 7 day cruises that visit Glacier Bay that have Park Service Rangers aboard. The EXC On Location Guide did provide commentary over the PA at Tracy Arm and Hubbard Glacier. She just started her new position with the July 3rd sailing of the Amsterdam.

[BarbarianPaul]

Having acquired 200+ days on Hal in a relatively short time, I can truthfully say that I have only met a Cruise Director once, and then because he was an invited guest at a dinner where I was also a guest. I could not care less.

 

 

 

I do not do games, trivia, or shows; give me a glass or two of wine and good conversation in the evening, and my entertainment is complete. I do my own research for my destinations.

 

 

 

At this time HAL gets me where I want to go with enough palatable food to fuel my explorations at a price I can afford in a cabin I can live in for an extended period of time.

 

 

 

Good enough for me.

 

 

 

That might be all you need, but I think most people--including myself--expect the product to feature better entertainment. We love the trivia and games, even if we attend them only infrequently. And good, interesting lectures are a must. And I think it's a good cruise director's job to be an amiable and present host throughout the cruise. If we didn't want any of this, we'd book a nice freighter!

 

 

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[UPNYGuy]

OP I'm on Regatta now. I can tell you that cheesy entertainment is NOT the name of the game. And FWIW, that is fine by me. If you like enrichment lectures, jazz and classical music, and a good cabaret show at night, you will be a good fit. Although IMHO the shows at night have been far better than what we have seen as of late on HAL (except BB King group).

 

 

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[RMLincoln]

That might be all you need, but I think most people--including myself--expect the product to feature better entertainment. We love the trivia and games, even if we attend them only infrequently. And good, interesting lectures are a must. And I think it's a good cruise director's job to be an amiable and present host throughout the cruise. If we didn't want any of this, we'd book a nice freighter!

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Last I looked at freighters, they made HAL's pricing (for similar cabins) look pretty amazing! Maybe I need to look again. m--

 

 

OP I'm on Regatta now. I can tell you that cheesy entertainment is NOT the name of the game. And FWIW, that is fine by me. If you like enrichment lectures, jazz and classical music, and a good cabaret show at night, you will be a good fit. Although IMHO the shows at night have been far better than what we have seen as of late on HAL (except BB King group).

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Thanks for the update on Regatta. Sounds very much up our alley, if we could find a good deal. I think our upcoming HAL cruise may foretell our future direction. m--

[UPNYGuy]

Last I looked at freighters, they made HAL's pricing (for similar cabins) look pretty amazing! Maybe I need to look again. m--

 

 

 

Thanks for the update on Regatta. Sounds very much up our alley, if we could find a good deal. I think our upcoming HAL cruise may foretell our future direction. m--

 

 

 

OP remember that Oceania throws very generous offers with booking, so you may come out close to even. Also, you will end up on a midsize ship (Riveria and Marina are the size of a HAL R class but have guest load of S class). If you wind up on an Oceania R class (Regatta or sisters), you have less than 700 guests on board.

 

 

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[kalliekae]

For many people they have come to a point in life where the ship is their destination, for their vacation. I have seen this posted many times. They are not using it like a bus to get from A to B. So for them the shipboard life and entertainment is important. I was very fortunate to be able to do 4 longer cruises over the past 4 years and found that with each one something else was gone. When I think back to the first one it was a stark contrast to the latest one, where there was very little besides daily trivia (well, most days), the evening show (which wasn't every evening) and BB King. It has changed a lot.

 

Exactly! We enjoyed many HAL cruises over the years, but now we are only able to cruise once a year right after Thanksgiving so that limits us to the Caribbean. Been to all the islands more than once so we were looking for something more exciting. We tried Royal Caribbean and since that RCI cruise, we have only done one HAL cruise in recent years.

 

Royal's ships are our destination, not the itinerary. There is so much to do, tons of restaurants & bars, excellent entertainment, etc. You can do as much as you want or as little as you want and you can still find a quiet place to read on the mega ships. We all go through different stages in our lives and we choose the vacations that work best for us. Right now, Royal fulfills our cruising tastes, but that doesn't mean we won't return to HAL once our professional lives slow down.

[BarbarianPaul]

OP remember that Oceania throws very generous offers with booking, so you may come out close to even. Also, you will end up on a midsize ship (Riveria and Marina are the size of a HAL R class but have guest load of S class). If you wind up on an Oceania R class (Regatta or sisters), you have less than 700 guests on board.

 

 

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I've found that even with deals Oceania is priced substantially higher than HAL. Also, HAL's itineraries are longer and for us more unique.

 

 

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