US Immigration horrendous

[Longboysfan]

I have a friend who no longer has her sister visit from Germany because of the horrible experience her sister had arriving at JFK.

It is sad that we are losing tourism dollars by making travel here so burdensome, but it is tragic that we are losing the friendship and goodwill of the people of other countries and cultures who have been so important to international relationships.

 

So safety for all current U.S.A. residents is no concern for you?????

[Cruise Junky]

So safety for all current U.S.A. residents is no concern for you?????

 

Treating people like garbage has nothing to do with "Safety"

[hosscow]

The first few three ship days can be a zoo. We do embarkation in Vancouver fairly regularly ( our home port). The problem usually is that the American authorities don't have enough staff to handle the numbers.

 

 

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So why doesn't Vancouver Port request the proper amount of agents for the number of ships?

This thread has degraded into blaming the agents when it is the Vancouver Port not having the proper amount of personnel for the number of ships on a given day. Only port where I have seen this problem. Longest wait at the six other departure ports I've been to is 90 minutes. Vancouver over 3.5 hours.

[bUU]

In the context of the thread "degrading" into baseless blaming, as you suggested...

So why doesn't Vancouver Port request the proper amount of agents for the number of ships?

Why are you assuming that they haven't?

[SALAD MUNCHER]

As the OP I see my thread has encouraged many people to voice their concerns and state their experiences. I totally understand how security in this day and age is very important and it is in the interests of each country to ensure their own citizens are kept safe. However, as a UK citizen I had already applied for, and been accepted to receive an ESTA

(Electronic System for Travel Authorization (ESTA) is an automated system used to determine the eligibility of visitors to travel to the United States under the Visa Waiver Program (VWP) and whether such travel poses any law enforcement or security risk.) I would have expected that a background check would have been done on me upon receipt of my application and, as I was successful it could be assumed that I would not be looked upon as a security threat as such. I have also traveled twice before to the USA within the last 18 months and both times had my iris scanned and fingerprints taken on arrival. Why do this each time? Do they store the results? Do they check each time whether the last set of results match? It feels to me like the USA Border force are just over egging the custard which will eventually cause it to become lumpy.....

[Kamloops50]

So why doesn't Vancouver Port request the proper amount of agents for the number of ships?

 

This thread has degraded into blaming the agents when it is the Vancouver Port not having the proper amount of personnel for the number of ships on a given day. Only port where I have seen this problem. Longest wait at the six other departure ports I've been to is 90 minutes. Vancouver over 3.5 hours.

 

 

 

The American government works at their own speed . The port can request but the government decides in the end what to do . They also need more staff at Yvr on busy cruise days.

 

 

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[broberts]

The American government works at their own speed . The port can request but the government decides in the end what to do . They also need more staff at Yvr on busy cruise days.

 

 

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And this may be the root of the problem. Presumably Vancouver has a particular detachment of CBP personnel trained in airport and cruise terminal procedures. Presumably these personnel require some sort of clearance from the Canadian government to work in Canada. I suspect the detachment size is not particularly flexible. I.E. lots of red tape from two governments to add staff even for a few hours.

[Tom47]

These delays are not confined to Canada or the US. See https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/holidaymakers-hit-by-long-delays-after-eu-tightens-entry-rules-7k0rfnzj2

I am retired from Customs, 2002. I never worked in Canada. Staffing in Canada is governed by a reciprocal agreement between Canada and the US. All US personnel must be approved by Canadian authorities.. When first pre- clearance offices were opened in the 50s , airlines agreed to contribute funding. If they still do, that means that they also have a say in staffing decisions. If there were sick calls on the day of that horrendous delay, it means some manager was trying desperately to get people to come in on overtime on their day off. I worked six days a week and never gave up my day off unless ordered to do.

As regards rudeness, Customs investigates all complaints and has fired officers for repeated rudeness, including a colleague. If you don't complain, then that officer will probably continue to be rude. The majority of people that I worked with were professional and conscientious.

Three officers were murdered while on duty during my career. Management forced me to look at pictures of one officer's dead body in 1979. He was shot and killed by an escaped convicted murderer.

[Kamloops50]

These delays are not confined to Canada or the US. See https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/holidaymakers-hit-by-long-delays-after-eu-tightens-entry-rules-7k0rfnzj2

I am retired from Customs, 2002. I never worked in Canada. Staffing in Canada is governed by a reciprocal agreement between Canada and the US. All US personnel must be approved by Canadian authorities.. When first pre- clearance offices were opened in the 50s , airlines agreed to contribute funding. If they still do, that means that they also have a say in staffing decisions. If there were sick calls on the day of that horrendous delay, it means some manager was trying desperately to get people to come in on overtime on their day off. I worked six days a week and never gave up my day off unless ordered to do.

As regards rudeness, Customs investigates all complaints and has fired officers for repeated rudeness, including a colleague. If you don't complain, then that officer will probably continue to be rude. The majority of people that I worked with were professional and conscientious.

Three officers were murdered while on duty during my career. Management forced me to look at pictures of one officer's dead body in 1979. He was shot and killed by an escaped convicted murderer.

 

 

 

Airlines still add a fee to cover US customs officer at Canadian airports.

 

 

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[Happy Cruiser 6143]

Treating people like garbage has nothing to do with "Safety"

 

Like!

[RJHNorthyorks]

We've had some not over good experiences with USA immigration. The worst was disembarking in Puerto Rico where they decided to disembark Americans first and leave the rest of us hanging about for hours - first on the ship then in a shed with no airconditioning.

In the U.K. there are clear rules on retention of data so my husband ( a police officer) asked the immigration officer how long they kept finger prints and iris photos. He did not receive a reply or even an acknowledgment that he had asked a question.

[Tom47]

We've had some not over good experiences with USA immigration. The worst was disembarking in Puerto Rico where they decided to disembark Americans first and leave the rest of us hanging about for hours - first on the ship then in a shed with no airconditioning.

In the U.K. there are clear rules on retention of data so my husband ( a police officer) asked the immigration officer how long they kept finger prints and iris photos. He did not receive a reply or even an acknowledgment that he had asked a question.

 

I was told that Customs kept everything forever. But Immigration was separate from Customs when I retired, so I don't know about new rules. You could write and ask. Google CBP for an address. We had a fact sheet that we gave out in response to questions. But I suspect that you would have to go a supervisor to get that(no room in the booth for forms). Last time I worked in an airport was 1970 and then only for 30 days. I never worked in a seaport--only land border.

[4774Papa]

We have no problems when we went through immigration at Vancouver on our Alaska cruise.

[bogofman]

So the best Alaska cruise is to start it in Alaska and get off in vancoover

 

Or sail from Seattle?

[Cruise Raider]

So the best Alaska cruise is to start it in Alaska and get off in vancoover

 

Or sail from Seattle?

 

Vancouver is a lovely city so I really wouldn't say that ... but the last few cruises where we embarked in Vancouver, well, it was a lengthy wait, that's for sure.

I never met a crabby or rude immigration officer there, though. The couple / few that were there were quite friendly ... just understaffed.

I wish Celebrity still had that itinerary where we boarded in Seattle and disembarked in Vancouver ... it was an 11 night Alaska sailing and just fabulous. The one we were just on a couple of months ago was Vancouver to Seattle and only 9 nights. That was awesome as well but would have been nice it if embarked and disembarked in the opposite ports.

[Z'Loth]

As I understand it, all passengers embarking in Vancouver will go through screening and U.S. Customs and Border Protection as you are considered to be entering U.S. jurisdiction upon boarding the cruise ship. This is nothing new to me. In September, 2013, I took the ferry from Port Angeles, Washington to Victoria, BC. On the return trip back to the states, I had to arrive at the ferry terminal at least 90 minutes before ferry departure. At the 90 minute mark, the entire terminal was closed off, and US customs processed your passports before boarding the ferry.

 

Custom procedures can be.... interesting. On that same September, 2013 trip, when I entered Canada, Canada customs asked me how long I was staying in Canada, where I was staying, do I have any relatives in Canada, where I currently work, and when I returned to work. Last September, I traveled to Canada for a day road trip to Kootenay Bay, and passed through the Kingsgate, BC Crossing. (This was shortly after the 2016 New York/New Jersey bombings). They requested the passcodes to my laptop, my phone, and my tablet, and searched my car with a dog, then wondered why I didn't take the turnoff to Rykerts, BC crossing. Apparently, Canada "nice" doesn't apply to border crossing.

 

A few weeks ago, I went to Costa Rica on a business trip. This required that I travel through Houston. Going to Costa Rica wasn't a problem, although there was a line at customers, and I had to have my bags scanned before departing the airport. Traveling back to the United States was different. I had to pass through customs at Houston, pick up my bag from baggage check, then turn around and drop it off for my (missed) flight home.

 

As far as I can see, I am a guest of any country that is not the United States. It is the job of customs/border patrol to screen out the difference between welcome and unwelcome guests. I want to continue to be on the "welcomed" list.

[Esk]

Arriving into San Francisco from the UK one year at immigration I was asked "is this really you?"

My passport was on the old side and the picture was a much younger me. My husband, ever the comic said "she looked like that when she got on the plane!"[emoji57]

Happily we were allowed in, I think we brightened his day a little[emoji846]

 

 

 

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[4774Papa]

Treating people like garbage has nothing to do with "Safety"

Please explain specifically how the US immigration treated people like garbage?

 

We have been traveling overseas 2-3 times a year since 2010. Prior to that we lived overseas for several years. We have been through immigration for many countries including our own, the USA.

 

My personal experience was that some of the worst situations were when we were on a cruise ship where clearance was delayed for hours due to the locals not getting a large enough payoff, like in Bali.

 

We are US citizens, but have only had one very poor experience coming back into the country. It was in 2012 after a Caribbean cruise at Ft. Lauderdale. Celebrity's #25 dock only had two customs agents and it took two hours to get through. The treatment of the passengers was in no way like garbage, it was just there were not enough agents there to process everyone.

 

On one reentry we arrive during a budget dispute between Congress and the President and the line for US citizens was far slower, since most of the agents were detailed to handle the non-USA citizens. Still, we made it through in a reasonable time.

 

Does everyone have a similar experience when you go to the DMV to renew your driver's license? We have a nice facility here in south Georgia and everyone picks a number, and you are called according to your number. Last time that I had to do that, it took three hours to get my new license. The staff at the DMV were friendly, but it just took that long.

[bUU]

Please explain specifically how the US immigration treated people like garbage?

I'm concerned that many people choose to perceive any questioning of their identity and intentions to be maltreatment rather than the reality, that such questioning is the core of the job of CBP's responsibility. Having said that, we cannot help but recognize that CBP officials are naturally reflections of the society and culture within which we live, and that there are surely not only incidents of a few outlier individuals who categorically misbehave at times, but also a significant representation by officials affected by our society's inherent biases and expressions of legacy privilege. That's why, while it is disappointing, I would not be surprised to hear that people of color (American or foreign) are the targets of heavier scrutiny than is warranted by the other aspects of their profile. To expect perfection from CBP when such perfection is not a hallmark of the conduct of any aspect of our society is paradoxically both justified and unreasonable.

[Cruise Junky]

Please explain specifically how the US immigration treated people like garbage?

 

We have been traveling overseas 2-3 times a year since 2010. Prior to that we lived overseas for several years. We have been through immigration for many countries including our own, the USA.

 

My personal experience was that some of the worst situations were when we were on a cruise ship where clearance was delayed for hours due to the locals not getting a large enough payoff, like in Bali.

 

We are US citizens, but have only had one very poor experience coming back into the country. It was in 2012 after a Caribbean cruise at Ft. Lauderdale. Celebrity's #25 dock only had two customs agents and it took two hours to get through. The treatment of the passengers was in no way like garbage, it was just there were not enough agents there to process everyone.

 

On one reentry we arrive during a budget dispute between Congress and the President and the line for US citizens was far slower, since most of the agents were detailed to handle the non-USA citizens. Still, we made it through in a reasonable time.

 

Does everyone have a similar experience when you go to the DMV to renew your driver's license? We have a nice facility here in south Georgia and everyone picks a number, and you are called according to your number. Last time that I had to do that, it took three hours to get my new license. The staff at the DMV were friendly, but it just took that long.

 

You're American, you probably don't see it. Ever been in the back for secondary screening? I'm not saying they're all like that, we've encountered some very nice ones but some not so nice. I worked on a North American project where the manager was born in Pakistan. She had a full work permit for the US, the way she was treated trying to cross the border every single time. It was horrible to see how she was spoken to and this was 10 years ago.

[herbanrenewal]

I think there are two different issues being discussed in this thread. The original poster spoke about a specific instance at a specific location. They posted their particular experience, and were primarily complaining about process issues - separating US residents from travelers not from North America, long delays possibly caused by understaffing, lack of comfort facilities including places to sit to wait or something to drink.

 

But others, including me, have responded with other issues regarding interactions with individual agents. For those who have never had to deal with or witness a rude agent you can just go to utube to see some examples. They certainly exist. And they can really damage the perception of our country by visitors. And when its someone you know who refuses to visit you because of a very uncomfortable experience you take it to heart.

 

 

In this day and age we all want every possible precaution to be taken to protect ourselves and our fellow travelers. But individual experiences have shown that not every traveler is treated with respect and courtesy, even when they present no discernible risk of threat.

[Project_gal]

Please explain specifically how the US immigration treated people like garbage?

 

Being detained for over 3 hours (this was after queuing to show my passport) without access to water or toilet facilities by US Immigration officials who could speak very little English, being expected to follow them walking faster than I am able over long distances after long-haul flight and being shouted at if I could not keep up all because of an error in the official US ESTA computer system. If I was asked the questions I was asked after 3 hours when my passport was initially examined, there would have been no need to detain me at all.

 

This was bad enough but I witnessed others being detained for longer and treated in a much worse way - I suspect because they were young, male and not white.

[4774Papa]

Being detained for over 3 hours (this was after queuing to show my passport) without access to water or toilet facilities by US Immigration officials who could speak very little English, being expected to follow them walking faster than I am able over long distances after long-haul flight and being shouted at if I could not keep up all because of an error in the official US ESTA computer system. If I was asked the questions I was asked after 3 hours when my passport was initially examined, there would have been no need to detain me at all.

 

This was bad enough but I witnessed others being detained for longer and treated in a much worse way - I suspect because they were young, male and not white.

Sue,

I make no excuses for your poor treatment by immigration.

 

Intentionally depriving you of toilet facilities would amount to being treated like garbage. As far as delay, that stuff happens. We were delay in Atlanta for an extra hour because the new computer scanning terminals were inoperable. That is not being treated like garbage, that is inefficiently, incompetence or just bad luck.

 

 

 

Regarding you comment on not being young, male or white:

1) Do you really think INS is profiling older persons? Females? I seriously doubt that.

2) As far as non-whites, I wonder about that since, many of the agents that I see or know from my former employment ( I once worked for Homeland Security) are Hispanic or Black.

 

Dealing with government bureaucrats can be a frustrating experience. I was a Federal Employee for 30 years and I remember going to the Pentagon for my first ID card. No one was in the office. I went to the desk and a woman told me to take a number (there was a machine that issued a small paper with a number). I took a number and went to the desk. She said, wait until your number is called. OK, but expecting her to immediately call the number, I stood at the desk. She said be seated. I sat and waited five minutes. Finally, she called my number and I did receive my ID card.

 

I have talked to people that lived in the former Soviet Union and they tell stories that would make this stuff pale. To get medical attention, you frequently waited until a bribe was agreed on and made. You waited in line for shoes, or bread or milk. You waited 12 years on a list for a car in East Germany. That is real government inefficiency, corruption and all.

 

I can only hope that Sue's INS treatment was rare and abnormal. I hate to see anyone go through that.

[bEwAbG]

I guess we've been very lucky - we only once encountered rude immigration/customs/TSA agents, and that was entering into Canada. That was 20 years ago, a small 2 lane road crossing into Alberta from Grand Teton National park. They basically ripped our car and luggage apart, even pulling up the carpeting. In our luggage was an ultrasound image of our soon-to-be-born 1st grandson, and they kept waving it in the air demanding to know what it was. They of course found nothing, but we were there over an hour. We later decided they were extremely bored, as we didn't see another car the whole time we were there.

 

My parents live in a rural area and there are two very small regional airports about 40 miles in either direction. At both, you will not believe the level of scrutiny you get from their TSA agents just to board a commuter jet. Only 4 flights a day will do that, I guess.

[kitty9]

Just read an article in the London Times that spoke of horrendous wait times for Immigration in many, if not most, European airports. It was reported that an EasyJet group were in queues for as long as three to four hours in Spain. So, this is not relegated to United States Immigration. It's the way of the world in which we live. As a tourist from Liverpool was quoted, "If you want to travel by air, this is what's to be expected. If you don't like it, I suggest you holiday at home." Even though it's supposed to be easier for Schengen countries, even those folks experienced very long delays at European airports.