Tipping

[grapau27]

If any P&O senior managers do read CC threads then from this one they will surely assume that their current system of rewarding hotel staff via auto gratuities is a great system. There are so many conflicting views discussed they will feel that maintaining the status quo is by far the best option.;)

The crew go a long way in giving you a great cruise and if autotipping is what they want to reward them especially if the cruise line don't pay them a proper wage then we should all embrace that in appreciation of what they do for us.

 

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[grapau27]

Massive assumption here that the vastly increased price of a suite over a standard cabin makes no allowance whatsoever for additional cleaning time. I would be staggered if that is the case. Whilst we all have our own views as to whether we pay the service charge or not, there seems to be a bit of unhealthy 'them and us' or, dare I say it, jealousy creeping into this thread which somewhat undermines the core argument.

Look it is personal choice,just like we buy our food from M&S and someone else might go to Aldi just the same as we get a Superior Deluxe Balcony cabin because i want a bath and bigger room but someone else might prefer an inside cabin because it is dark and they might want that to get a better sleep.

Lets just cut out any envy and just enjoy our cruise which is what we have all paid for.

 

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[bee-ess]

The crew go a long way in giving you a great cruise and if autotipping is what they want to reward them especially if the cruise line don't pay them a proper wage then we should all embrace that in appreciation of what they do for us.

 

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So, if P&O don't pay them a proper wage, then we should, is that what you are saying ?

[grapau27]

So, if P&O don't pay them a proper wage, then we should, is that what you are saying ?

Yes. I think the cruise lines should pay their crew properly but they dont.The crew make your cruise and if to make them happy to continue giving us a great cruise then yes we should all pay at least the autotips.

 

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[silversurf]

I have never been able to establish whether general cleaners, kitchen staff, laundry and maintenance etc get a proportion of the tips or if these just go to cabin stewards, waiters and bar staff.

We always leave them on as it just gets too difficult to work out what we should give to each person, but we would never tip this much if staying in a hotel.

[grapau27]

I have never been able to establish whether general cleaners, kitchen staff, laundry and maintenance etc get a proportion of the tips or if these just go to cabin stewards, waiters and bar staff.

We always leave them on as it just gets too difficult to work out what we should give to each person, but we would never tip this much if staying in a hotel.

It was cabin steward,waiter, assistant waiter and head waiter we all got envelopes for originally but now with autotipping it is a little unclear.

 

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[grapau27]

I have never been able to establish whether general cleaners, kitchen staff, laundry and maintenance etc get a proportion of the tips or if these just go to cabin stewards, waiters and bar staff.

We always leave them on as it just gets too difficult to work out what we should give to each person, but we would never tip this much if staying in a hotel.

I know what you are saying but there are 100s of thousands of hotels but only a small number of cruise ships so difficult to compare.

 

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[bee-ess]

Yes. I think the cruise lines should pay their crew properly but they dont.The crew make your cruise and if to make them happy to continue giving us a great cruise then yes we should all pay at least the autotips.

 

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For the record we have always paid the autotip and before that envelopes. This time we will tip with envelopes but not if the level of service is what we received last time and am quite happy to tell P&O this. I am hoping that the service is great on Azura and I have every reason to believe it will be. Both times we have been on Britannia though the service has not been great, the staff seemed very sullen and just seem to be going through the motion, and with an autotip there is really no incentive for them to do anything else. These are just our views and it is up to each of us to do as we think.

 

I do have to say though that the principal of us paying for their wages if P&O don't pay enough is wrong.

[insanemagnet]

I can see your point, but if the tips aren't tips they are wages and P&O don't stipulate any additional charge for a suite - how do we know that they don't include the extra cost in the price? There must be some sort of arrangement as stewards with suites have less cabins to clean, and I can't imagine they settle for less wages. We don't know if other passengers subsidise suites or if this is accounted for differently, but that is another can of worms!

 

Of course the stewards for suites don't have lower wages.

 

It has already been established in this thread that the basic wage (paid out of the cruise fare) is a tiny proportion of the steward's pay. The bulk of the pay comes from the steward receiving a share of the tip pool.

 

If it takes longer to clean a suite than a smaller cabin, the steward can only deal with a fewer number of cabins.

 

So as the smaller number of suites served by one steward will have contributed less than the greater number of smaller cabins served by another.

 

So unless P&O pay into the tip pool to make up the difference, smaller cabins must be subsidising suites as far as the service charge is concerned.

[pisces14]

If the cabin is bigger it will take the steward longer to clean. Since the 'tips' are not 'tips' but wages it would seem reasonable that you pay the right amount for the steward otherwise those in smaller cabins are subsidising you.

 

I think this has to be one of the most ridiculous statements I've read on here. To begin the cost of a suite is much greater than the cost of an inside cabin so the cost of cleaning a bigger cabin is already taken care of. Apart from that we make very little work for the cabin steward and I've passed smaller cabins with the sort of mess I'd be ashamed to leave for the cabin steward to clean up. Not forgetting the fact that often there are 4 people in some cabins. While in our suite there are just two of us and as others have said the butler also assists the cabin steward.

[Selbourne]

Of course the stewards for suites don't have lower wages.

 

It has already been established in this thread that the basic wage (paid out of the cruise fare) is a tiny proportion of the steward's pay. The bulk of the pay comes from the steward receiving a share of the tip pool.

 

If it takes longer to clean a suite than a smaller cabin, the steward can only deal with a fewer number of cabins.

 

So as the smaller number of suites served by one steward will have contributed less than the greater number of smaller cabins served by another.

 

So unless P&O pay into the tip pool to make up the difference, smaller cabins must be subsidising suites as far as the service charge is concerned.

 

Again, yet more assumptions. I could argue that the massive price hike for a suite isn't entirely justified and it is likely that suite guests are overpaying in order to allow the headline (cheapest cabin) prices to be kept low. That would make far more sense from a business perspective, but frankly none of us know and the debate is somewhat pointless. It does, however, take a somewhat unique logic, if you look at the price people pay for suites, to conclude that they are being subsidised by those in the cheaper cabins. You obviously won't be swayed. I, however, think that's nonsense.

 

On our most recent cruise we booked a suite (for us) and an adjacent balcony cabin for our adult daughters. Yes, it did take the steward longer to clean the suite and yes we had some additional privelidges such as breakfast in the Epicurean. But the suite cost me £4K more than the balcony cabin. Did that extra £4K help cover any additional time taken to clean out suite, or a marginally skewed apportionment of the service charge tip pool? Of course it did. Did I get the sense that those in inside cabins were helping to subsidise my holiday? Hell no. Please, let's get real.

[grapau27]

For the record we have always paid the autotip and before that envelopes. This time we will tip with envelopes but not if the level of service is what we received last time and am quite happy to tell P&O this. I am hoping that the service is great on Azura and I have every reason to believe it will be. Both times we have been on Britannia though the service has not been great, the staff seemed very sullen and just seem to be going through the motion, and with an autotip there is really no incentive for them to do anything else. These are just our views and it is up to each of us to do as we think.

 

I do have to say though that the principal of us paying for their wages if P&O don't pay enough is wrong.

I agree with you on all points and if the service is poor all round the ship they do not deserve tips but for us that has never happened but i can understand the lack of motivation with autotips because to the crew that just makes up a basic pay and the cruise lines do not come out with any credit on this issue.

 

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[grapau27]

Again, yet more assumptions. I could argue that the massive price hike for a suite isn't entirely justified and it is likely that suite guests are overpaying in order to allow the headline (cheapest cabin) prices to be kept low. That would make far more sense from a business perspective, but frankly none of us know and the debate is somewhat pointless. It does, however, take a somewhat unique logic, if you look at the price people pay for suites, to conclude that they are being subsidised by those in the cheaper cabins. You obviously won't be swayed. I, however, think that's nonsense.

 

On our most recent cruise we booked a suite (for us) and an adjacent balcony cabin for our adult daughters. Yes, it did take the steward longer to clean the suite and yes we had some additional privelidges such as breakfast in the Epicurean. But the suite cost me £4K more than the balcony cabin. Did that extra £4K help cover any additional time taken to clean out suite, or a marginally skewed apportionment of the service charge tip pool? Of course it did. Did I get the sense that those in inside cabins were helping to subsidise my holiday? Hell no. Please, let's get real.

I had heard the better cabin stewards are assigned better cabins and will be better remunerated and probably because they are better they probably get bigger cash tips off guests too.

 

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[Selbourne]

I had heard the better cabin stewards are assigned better cabins and will be better remunerated and probably because they are better they probably get bigger cash tips off guests too.

 

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Our experience would suggest that the former isn't the case, as we have had some brilliant stewards in regular balcony cabins and some not very good ones in suites, but yes, I did give our last steward £60 cash as well as paying the auto gratuity, partly because I never feel comfortable if I don't personally hand them something and I also felt sorry for him as he spent half his time hosing soot off the balconies!

[insanemagnet]

Yes, it did take the steward longer to clean the suite and yes we had some additional privelidges such as breakfast in the Epicurean. But the suite cost me £4K more than the balcony cabin. Did that extra £4K help cover any additional time taken to clean out suite, or a marginally skewed apportionment of the service charge tip pool?.

 

Well did it and if so how?

 

It has been strongly argued that the stewards only get a very small basic wage paid for by the fare, on your case £4k.

 

The vast majority of their pay comes from the tip pool.

 

Quite simply if your suite takes longer to clean, unless P&O pass some of your £4K over to the tip pool then your steward has been subsidised by smaller cabins which take less time to clean.

 

And as you mentioned the waiters, the higher staffing ratio in Epicurean means they are subsidised in relation to the service charge as well.

 

Now obviously suites and balcony cabins subsidise inside cabins when it comes to the basic fare, but it is the discretionary service charge that funds steward and waiters pay that is being discussed here.

[Selbourne]

Well did it and if so how?

 

It has been strongly argued that the stewards only get a very small basic wage paid for by the fare, on your case £4k.

 

The vast majority of their pay comes from the tip pool.

 

Quite simply if your suite takes longer to clean, unless P&O pass some of your £4K over to the tip pool then your steward has been subsidised by smaller cabins which take less time to clean.

 

And as you mentioned the waiters, the higher staffing ratio in Epicurean means they are subsidised in relation to the service charge as well.

 

Now obviously suites and balcony cabins subsidise inside cabins when it comes to the basic fare, but it is the discretionary service charge that funds steward and waiters pay that is being discussed here.

 

We are never going to agree on this one I'm afraid. I simply don't accept your core argument, as you are having to make a number of assumptions that I don't accept are necessarily true. So let's just agree to disagree.

 

Like many people, I would love to see service charges incorporated into the fare to stop all these circular conversations. I don't like the current setup because I end up paying twice (service charge plus additional discretionary cash tips) whilst others pay nothing at all, or pay less in cash than the service charge.

 

My total expenditure on P&O this year will be over £20k. In addition, I have (or will) pay the £6 service charge for every day that I and any of my family spend on a ship (unlike some others). I will also hand out many hundreds of pounds in additional discretionary cash tips, also unlike some others. You may therefore understand why I resent the allegation that others are subsiding my contribution to the welfare of the ships hard working crew. But then again......

[grapau27]

We are never going to agree on this one I'm afraid. I simply don't accept your core argument, as you are having to make a number of assumptions that I don't accept are necessarily true. So let's just agree to disagree.

 

Like many people, I would love to see service charges incorporated into the fare to stop all these circular conversations. I don't like the current setup because I end up paying twice (service charge plus additional discretionary cash tips) whilst others pay nothing at all, or pay less in cash than the service charge.

 

My total expenditure on P&O this year will be over £20k. In addition, I have (or will) pay the £6 service charge for every day that I and any of my family spend on a ship (unlike some others). I will also hand out many hundreds of pounds in additional discretionary cash tips, also unlike some others. You may therefore understand why I resent the allegation that others are subsiding my contribution to the welfare of the ships hard working crew. But then again......

I agree with you and P&O are lucky to have you spending so much money with them.

 

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[grapau27]

Our experience would suggest that the former isn't the case, as we have had some brilliant stewards in regular balcony cabins and some not very good ones in suites, but yes, I did give our last steward £60 cash as well as paying the auto gratuity, partly because I never feel comfortable if I don't personally hand them something and I also felt sorry for him as he spent half his time hosing soot off the balconies!

It was a cabin steward who told me this.

 

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[majortom10]

No one spends that sort of money without reading further than the price. If you are correct some people, buying on price alone must end up on any cruise line, any ship going anywhere. Do people wanting to go to Andalusia end up in Benidorm because it's a bit cheaper. It's fantasy.

 

David.

 

I did not say I would book any cruise with any cruise line but in most peoples minds price has to be a major factor when booking a cruise or any other type of holiday. If you are well off enough to not have to worry about cost then you are very lucky but dont assume everyone else is in the same boat (pardon the pun).

[grapau27]

I did not say I would book any cruise with any cruise line but in most peoples minds price has to be a major factor when booking a cruise or any other type of holiday. If you are well off enough to not have to worry about cost then you are very lucky but dont assume everyone else is in the same boat (pardon the pun).

I totally agree.

We have done 16 P&O cruises but most of our cruises are with RC because they do full season 7 night cruises from Barcelona and Venice in particular.

What i do is check the prices for each week which can differ greatly from June,July, August against September or October.

Same cruise and itineraries but by checking dates massive savings can be made.

 

 

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[majortom10]

It is getting rather boring now just going round in circles with different views when to be honest nobody and I mean nobody knows fully what happens to the Service Reward Programme and how it is divided by P&O to different staff and how much they get. It is down to personal choice whether you

1) remove auto gratuities and pay nothing in cash

2) remove auto gratuities and pay an amount in cash

3) leave auto gratuities in place and pay no extra

4) leave auto gratuities on and pay an extra amount in cash.

 

It is nothing to do with what anyone else does or how much or little they pay just decide what you are comfortable and happy to pay and then just move on and enjoy cruising.

[dgs1956]

it is getting rather boring now just going round in circles with different views when to be honest nobody and i mean nobody knows fully what happens to the service reward programme and how it is divided by p&o to different staff and how much they get. It is down to personal choice whether you

1) remove auto gratuities and pay nothing in cash

2) remove auto gratuities and pay an amount in cash

3) leave auto gratuities in place and pay no extra

4) leave auto gratuities on and pay an extra amount in cash.

 

It is nothing to do with what anyone else does or how much or little they pay just decide what you are comfortable and happy to pay and then just move on and enjoy cruising.

 

hear! Hear!

[insanemagnet]

We are never going to agree on this one I'm afraid. I simply don't accept your core argument, as you are having to make a number of assumptions that I don't accept are necessarily true. So let's just agree to disagree. .

 

I accept we are not going to agree, but I am afraid it is you that is assuming some of your £4k suite fare ends up being paid over by P&O into the tip pool to make up the difference.

 

It is getting rather boring now just going round in circles with different views when to be honest nobody and I mean nobody knows fully what happens to the Service Reward Programme and how it is divided by P&O to different staff and how much they get.

 

However if anyone suggests that the Service Reward Programme operates in any other way than a vocal few believe it does...

 

It is down to personal choice whether you

1) remove auto gratuities and pay nothing in cash

2) remove auto gratuities and pay an amount in cash

3) leave auto gratuities in place and pay no extra

4) leave auto gratuities on and pay an extra amount in cash.

 

It is nothing to do with what anyone else does or how much or little they pay just decide what you are comfortable and happy to pay and then just move on and enjoy cruising.

 

True, but I bet if someone new stumbled into this forum and suggested option one...

[kalos]

It is getting rather boring now just going round in circles with different views when to be honest nobody and I mean nobody knows fully what happens to the Service Reward Programme and how it is divided by P&O to different staff and how much they get. It is down to personal choice whether you

1) remove auto gratuities and pay nothing in cash

2) remove auto gratuities and pay an amount in cash

3) leave auto gratuities in place and pay no extra

4) leave auto gratuities on and pay an extra amount in cash.

 

It is nothing to do with what anyone else does or how much or little they pay just decide what you are comfortable and happy to pay and then just move on and enjoy cruising.

 

Good post !

[john watson]

I am going for option 1) b. remove auto gratuities, pay nothing in cash but proffer my tip in the form of modern dance.

 

Regards John