U.S. Issues new Trael Wanring to avoid unnecessary travel to Mexico.

[iancal]

Agree. For the life of me I can never figure out why some people seem to feel North America is so safe relative to some other countries in the world.

 

It just is not safe. You need to be aware of your surroundings wherever you go. We feel no safer in many American cities than we do in European or Asian cities. Crime and violence is very much part of the North American fabric. The statistics clearly demonstrate this.

 

So, we don't stay home either. We don't spend our days worrying about safety in areas where we travel. We are simply careful when we travel...no matter whether it is at home, in our own country, or abroad. Nor do we get overly exited about Government advisories or some of the overblown reports on the entertainment/news channels.

[sail7seas]

Agree. For the life of me I can never figure out why some people seem to feel North America is so safe relative to some other countries in the world.

Is Mexico no longer in North America? :) Did they relocate?

 

 

It just is not safe. You need to be aware of your surroundings wherever you go. We feel no safer in many American cities than we do in European or Asian cities. Crime and violence is very much part of the North American fabric. The statistics clearly demonstrate this.

 

So, we don't stay home either. We don't spend our days worrying about safety in areas where we travel. We are simply careful when we travel...no matter whether it is at home, in our own country, or abroad. Nor do we get overly exited about Government advisories or some of the overblown reports on the entertainment/news channels.[/quote ] ( :)

[Lizzie68]

While I am sorry to hear what you experienced and I think youmean wellt your path and mine are quite different. thus, No, I have not walked in your shoes nor have you walked in mine. I am a senior woman, having spent my entire adult life with my late DH, have very real health issues and absolutely no family. I have buried them all. Neither of our circumstances would be called ideal As, to light at the end of the tunne l,,,,,,,, I'm no twenty something year old for digging. Maybe that light will show itself to me before it is too late :D

Too bad you didn't take sapper's post as intended and missed the empathy. But I guess it was off topic and we can firtunately all make choices suited to our own personal circumstances , fears or comfort level when travelling.

 

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Forums mobile app

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we can firtunately all make choices suited to our own personal circumstances , fears or comfort level when travelling.

 

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Forums mobile app

 

And thank goodness we CAN make our own choices. Unfortunately it seems that we are expected to not discuss those choices as some take offense at differing opinions :(

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Sail, I have walked a year in your shoes. I was left a widow with two teenage boys to handle. It wasn't easy but I learned to be tough and push onward. There is a light at the end of the tunnel but you have to dig for it.

 

I am so sorry to read this. I simply cannot imagine what would be like. Having two full time parents in a family with teenagers is challenging enough. I simply can't imagine how you did it, but good for you! It can't have been easy.

[frankc98376]

AND som ep eople make judgments about other peopel when they know a fraction off their 'story. A senior woman, widow, with extensive serious health issues and absolutely no family has good reason to be cautious about where I go and what I do..... To tell someone like me who has b uried my whole family what can hap;pen to any one anywhere is insulting , purrposefully or not. :rolleyes: My entire family is dead. I know that people die everywhere including at home. . Unless you';d like me to call some of you who are so firrm and inflexible and will hear of another point of vieww........ IF I am in Mexico and have a problem, which of you would jump t yo my aid? Orthat of other CC;ers who may have similar circumstances. Wallk a year in my shoes and see if maybe you could open your closed minds to another point of view founded in good sense.

 

J

 

If you were in port with us I guarantee you'd have one of us on each arm getting you (and us) into a cab and back to the ship

[Copper10-8]

J

 

If you were in port with us I guarantee you'd have one of us on each arm getting you (and us) into a cab and back to the ship

 

You're a good guy, Frank! :)

[bUU]

Agree. For the life of me I can never figure out why some people seem to feel North America is so safe relative to some other countries in the world.

I'm going to try to find it, but please know that there was an absolutely excellent post yesterday that made clear what you could never figure out, at least in the context of this thread, i.e., the difference between the United States and Mexico. It focused heavily not on the incidence of crime but also on the ability of the authorities to respond to crime, their willingness and ability to react in a proactive manner, and the government's ability to pursue and achieve justice for victims - all of which are relatively decent in the United States and remarkably abysmal in Mexico. In some areas, the Mexican government has given up trying to foster a protective and justice-seeking police presence; there's comparatively few places in the United States for which that is the case.

 

I'll try to find that posting.

[bUU]

Okay I found the post, but alas it is on another forum, and so I won't be able to post a link to it. In deference to the original author, I'll paraphrase it here rather than posting it intact.

 

Crime can and does happen in the United States. However, there are big differences between the United States and Mexico. The following report highlights many of the differences: http://www.khou.com/news/nation-now/they-blacked-out-at-a-mexico-resort-they-woke-up-to-a-nightmare/465400996

 

99% of crime go unpunished in Mexico, and the American concept of victim's rights is alien there. Victims in Mexico are far more often blamed for falling victim. Beyond the lack of responsiveness and poor conduct of the authorities, it is nearly impossible for victims in Mexico to receive compensation for damages. To add insult to injury, victims (who live) face potentially bankrupting costs associated with their victimization. The hospitals refuse to provide treatment without receiving thousands of dollars up-front.

When a Mexican official does exhibit admirable, justice-seeking behaviors, what happens? From the report: "Frias was shot dead in his squad car months later. Local news reports said it was likely a killing meant to intimidate law enforcement." How often is a chief of police killed in the United States in retribution for trying to investigate a sexual assault of a tourist by a hotel security guard?

[Copper10-8]

Okay I found the post, but alas it is on another forum, and so I won't be able to post a link to it. In deference to the original author, I'll paraphrase it here rather than posting it intact.

 

When a Mexican official does exhibit admirable, justice-seeking behaviors, what happens? From the report: "Frias was shot dead in his squad car months later. Local news reports said it was likely a killing meant to intimidate law enforcement." How often is a chief of police killed in the United States in retribution for trying to investigate a sexual assault of a tourist by a hotel security guard?

 

And not just Mexican police chiefs and their officers - there are some gruesome pics floating around the internet of Mexican police officers literally cut in many pieces and left on a roadside for all to see - but also chief prosecutors who dare to proactively go after the cartels, How often do you see that in the States AND Canada?

[shrimp56]

J

 

If you were in port with us I guarantee you'd have one of us on each arm getting you (and us) into a cab and back to the ship

I have actually seen fellow passengers helping others, including several taking turns pushing a wheelchair for a passenger so he could get to a tour site.

[shrimp56]

Duplicate post.

[serendipity1499]

And not just Mexican police chiefs and their officers - there are some gruesome pics floating around the internet of Mexican police officers literally cut in many pieces and left on a roadside for all to see - but also chief prosecutors who dare to proactively go after the cartels, How often do you see that in the States AND Canada?

 

Further to Coppers above post, I've taken this from a post on the Celebrity sight where I started the thread..

Quote

Please check out this website started by a parent of a dead child with facts the Mexican govt. is trying to hide. Even tho we have been to Mexico on land vacations 6 times, we won't be drinking in Mexico again. We'll have our Margaritas onboard.

http://mexicovacationawareness.com

Unquote

I went on this site & have only read the first two stories.. Both Nolan's & Andrew's stories are heartbreaking!

 

I posted the same warning on the Celebrity site to ask if any posters have been advised of schedule changes into the Cozumel area since we're booked on a Celebrity cruise in Dec. & scheduled to stop in Cozumel..

 

Betty

Edited August 26, 2017 by serendipity1499

[sail7seas]

J

 

If you were in port with us I guarantee you'd have one of us on each arm getting you (and us) into a cab and back to the ship

 

 

Frank, Though we have not yet met, I believe you and thank you most sincerely to read there are still kind, nice people not only in the world but here. :) Sometimes it gets easy to think otherwise. Sigh...... :eek:

[sfaaa]

And not just Mexican police chiefs and their officers - there are some gruesome pics floating around the internet of Mexican police officers literally cut in many pieces and left on a roadside for all to see - but also chief prosecutors who dare to proactively go after the cartels, How often do you see that in the States AND Canada?

 

And the story goes like this. When a new judge or police chief is appointed in Mexico, the local cartel would send him a gift basket containing of a wad of cash and a bullet. The message is clear and self explanatory.

[kazu]

Frank, Though we have not yet met, I believe you and thank you most sincerely to read there are still kind, nice people not only in the world but here. :) Sometimes it gets easy to think otherwise. Sigh...... :eek:

 

You would be surprised Sail to hear that there is often help on roll calls for a person who has issues.

 

Private tours - helping those that need it, helping those affected by an accident in St. Petersburg (just not wearing a seat belt), helping a passenger who had an allergic reaction at the dinner table, helping someone who fell in the Canal in Venice and was hurt by the water taxi (thank heavens we had our little medicine cabinet) - the list is endless.

 

there are a lot of people that care on the cruises and do not "just walk by".

 

We have done it. DH has done it and others have done it. It's pretty much a given on any cruise. Something happens when someone needs help and you just step up and do it. ;).

[iancal]

I really think that this entire issue has more to do with one's outlook on life than anything else. I guess we tend to have a more positive outlook, be more forward looking, and open minded. We also believe in doing a little research....we certainly do not believe everything we read on line, Gov't statements, and see on the news channels.

 

Clearly there are some places in Mexico where you would not want to venture or go on vacation. Same for some places in the US and in other countries. We are not so concerned about catching a perpetrator as we are in avoiding the crime, personal injury or theft in the first instance.

 

If you are need of personal assistance, where ever you may be in the world, there are some people who will go out of their way to help while others will pass you buy. This is not determined by nationality, country, etc. It is part of the human condition.

[sail7seas]

You would be surprised Sail to hear that there is often help on roll calls for a person who has issues.

 

Private tours - helping those that need it, helping those affected by an accident in St. Petersburg (just not wearing a seat belt), helping a passenger who had an allergic reaction at the dinner table, helping someone who fell in the Canal in Venice and was hurt by the water taxi (thank heavens we had our little medicine cabinet) - the list is endless.

 

there are a lot of people that care on the cruises and do not "just walk by".

 

We have done it. DH has done it and others have done it. It's pretty much a given on any cruise. Something happens when someone needs help and you just step up and do it. ;).

 

You know, I never participate in Roll Calls,,,,,, but I'll take it that you truly are trying to be helpful. :) Thanks for all your kindness.

[kazu]

You know, I never participate in Roll Calls,,,,,, but I'll take it that you truly are trying to be helpful. :) Thanks for all your kindness.

 

You don't have to be a roll member to get help.

 

If DH hadn't jumped in on someone on the P'dam at dinner, it would have been too late even though the medical came quickly.

 

they were not a roll call member but they were in serious distress. Every second counted. thankfully there was no "bright star" that night although they started until they saw what was already being done.

 

People care on ships and if they can help they do. It's a simple as that.

Edited August 26, 2017 by kazu

[sail7seas]

You don't have to be a roll member to get help.

 

If DH hadn't jumped in on someone on the P'dam at dinner, it would have been too late even though the medical came quickly.

 

they were not a roll call member but they were in serious distress. Every second counted. thankfully there was no "white star" that night although they started until they saw what was already being done.

 

People care on ships and if they can help they do. It's a simple as that.

after over 100 cruises ( various cruise lines),I am a very experiencedc ruiser and certainly know how'people' are on cruise ships.

 

At this time, You could no t give me a trip to Europe that would interest me even for free. I am grrateful to have done all the European travel I wish to do.. We started when we were very young and made a great many trips. That was then and this is now. I just heard a report of more terrorism last nigh ni B elgium and London. I'll take a pass for the moment and wish all safe travels . By no means am I telling anyone what they should do and/or where they should go. I am making my personal choic es. Each does so for themselves.

 

I do plan to cruise again,a number of times assuming I am able but not to Europe in the foreseable future.

 

I came very close to booking a cruise to Cuba this week and changed my mind at the last moment..

THEN, a couple with whom we were friends for many years asked me if I wanted to sail Koningsdam with them for an extended trip which would include about 3 days for pre and post cruise hotel stays and about 3 weeks on the ship (Collectors and b-to-b. While I was appreciative, I thanked them and declined.

Edited August 26, 2017 by sail7seas

[Copper10-8]

..........................................

I came very close to booking a cruise to Cuba this week and changed my mind at the last moment..

..................................

 

Me thinks you should reconsider that one, S7S; you will surely enjoy that itinerary to the island (and I'm not calling you Shirley :D) ........................but that's just me ;)

[Barrheadlass]

Have wonderful time. Travel safely.

 

Thank you!

[sail7seas]

Me thinks you should reconsider that one, S7S; you will surely enjoy that itinerary to the island (and I'm not calling you Shirley :D) ........................but that's just me;)

 

 

Surely, I knew you wouldn't call me Shirly but I would not mind if you didc. ;. Fourteen days, roundtrip Boston with an overnight inHavana. I think you are right and I should re consider. I had hoped to make my next cruise be on Maasdam or The very special Noordam.. Still roundtrip to Boston is hard to pass up.

[Copper10-8]

Surely, I knew you wouldn't call me Shirly but I would not mind if you didc. ;. Fourteen days, roundtrip Boston with an overnight inHavana. I think you are right and I should re consider. I had hoped to make my next cruise be on Maasdam or The very special Noordam.. Still roundtrip to Boston is hard to pass up.

 

An overnight in Havana!!!!!!! Plus no air transport involved for you! I would jump on that one

[sail7seas]

An overnight in Havana!!!!!!! Plus no air transport involved for you! I would jump on that one

 

 

Were I not solo I would sooooo be on it.. I'm uneasy given health issues, to be alone in Cuba. :o, just in case but I really like so much ab out it .WISH it was Maasdam or Noordam, though, of couse, I know why i is not Noordam.