Security protocol/limitations

[sunflower001]

Hello! Just back from our 4th RC cruise, Brlliance and first time I've seen trouble on the ship. Late one night, I had just finished checking in with my son in the Centrum and a fight breaks out. Long story short, one man who security was trying to subdue could not be subdued. He appeared to be on more than alcohol, screaming nonsense, blanked out stare, and what appeared to be incredible strength. There were several security that got called, at least 6 I think. Not once did I see handcuffs. They tried to keep him on the ground and he got up. They got him cornered, and he got away. They tried to escort him out, he got away. I only saw them trying to nicely subdue him and keep him contained not restrained. This even after he got up from the floor with the brass bar that holds the rope at Guest Services. They tackled him on the stairs and were trying to get him down the stairs and all i could hear was THUMP, SCREAM, THUMP, SCREAM 😲 So my question, what are the limitations of security?? Do they not have tasers? Mace? Handcuffs? Those around this were in disbelief it had gone on for so long, in front of so many people and young children. Mine were sent away right away.

I know some were taking video, I just was a looky loo...no judgement 😁

[Clarea]

Scary.

[constable145]

Hello! Just back from our 4th RC cruise, Brlliance and first time I've seen trouble on the ship. Late one night, I had just finished checking in with my son in the Centrum and a fight breaks out. Long story short, one man who security was trying to subdue could not be subdued. He appeared to be on more than alcohol, screaming nonsense, blanked out stare, and what appeared to be incredible strength. There were several security that got called, at least 6 I think. Not once did I see handcuffs. They tried to keep him on the ground and he got up. They got him cornered, and he got away. They tried to escort him out, he got away. I only saw them trying to nicely subdue him and keep him contained not restrained. This even after he got up from the floor with the brass bar that holds the rope at Guest Services. They tackled him on the stairs and were trying to get him down the stairs and all i could hear was THUMP, SCREAM, THUMP, SCREAM 😲 So my question, what are the limitations of security?? Do they not have tasers? Mace? Handcuffs? Those around this were in disbelief it had gone on for so long, in front of so many people and young children. Mine were sent away right away.

I know some were taking video, I just was a looky loo...no judgement 😁

 

I don't know what RCI's policy is. I'm not sure if their security staff carry handcuffs. They would have to have them accessible.

 

They wouldn't carry mace. If anyone, it would be OC spray ( pepper spray) but that would not be wise to deploy it in such a congested area. The legal status of tasers varies. They are a prohibited weapon here only available to police.

 

From what you are describing, this could be a case of Excited Delirium. This is often fueled by illicit drug consumption. The subject often has super human strength and and incredible pain tolerance. You need 5-6 people to retrain them.

[matj2000]

The security on the ships is not exactly the secret service or bar bouncers.

More like mall guards.

Someone who is big & strong could take many of them to subdue.

I wonder if they have some sort of protocol if anything major happens where staff in other departments get involved like they do with the muster drill.

Luckily this type of stuff is very rare.

[constable145]

The security on the ships is not exactly the secret service or bar bouncers.

More like mall guards.

Someone who is big & strong could take many of them to subdue.

I wonder if they have some sort of protocol if anything major happens where staff in other departments get involved like they do with the muster drill.

Luckily this type of stuff is very rare.

 

You have no idea what their level of training is. If properly trained you can subdue people that are bigger,stronger, faster etc.

[Retired LEO]

Security today needs to show a lot of restraint since they now wear body cameras. One wrong move on their part will immediately go against them.

Unfortunately the good old days are over.

[Mac303]

Unlike local Law Enforcement, the Security Officers on ships do not have the various tools

readily available to subdue someone as described in the original post.

 

The use of any kind of chemical spray would be ruled out as the effects it would have on

others nearby in the interior of the ship can't be controlled.

 

If the security officers used batons/nightsticks, or a taser some of the passengers would be outraged.

 

The Security on ship is in a no win situation trying to subdue a passenger who is acting out as described.

 

The only thing available to them is to simply outnumber the person into submission, and even then there will

be passengers who will complain about the methods used.

 

And don't forget the inevitable second guessing that would follow from corporate headquarters, if

injuries occurred to the out of control "guest".

 

Mac

also a Retired LEO

[chengkp75]

You have no idea what their level of training is. If properly trained you can subdue people that are bigger,stronger, faster etc.

 

NCL uses Gurkhas, and I've seen small female Gurkhas subdue much larger male drunks with simply a pressure hold.

 

Security has zip-tie cuffs, and whether or not they have various non-lethal means of subduing a person, or even lethal means, is up to the cruise line, and will not be discussed as it is part of the restricted Vessel Security Plan (which only the Captain knows the entire document, or even has access to it). I don't believe that ship security officers wear body cams, as they only need to meet the laws of the flag state, not the US. A more serious response to the incident in the OP may have required the presence of the Chief Security Officer, who may have needed time to get to the scene.

[Mac303]

NCL uses Gurkhas, and I've seen small female Gurkhas subdue much larger male drunks with simply a pressure hold.

 

Security has zip-tie cuffs, and whether or not they have various non-lethal means of subduing a person, or even lethal means, is up to the cruise line, and will not be discussed as it is part of the restricted Vessel Security Plan (which only the Captain knows the entire document, or even has access to it). I don't believe that ship security officers wear body cams, as they only need to meet the laws of the flag state, not the US. A more serious response to the incident in the OP may have required the presence of the Chief Security Officer, who may have needed time to get to the scene.

 

RCL Security does have body cams, for about a year now.

 

Mac

[chengkp75]

While I know that ship's security is mostly constrained by customer service, I will disagree with some of the LEO posters, in that international maritime law gives the ship's Master, or his designee, "overriding authority", or the authority to do whatever is necessary to protect the safety of the vessel, crew, cargo (passengers) and environment.

[Merion_Mom]

While I know that ship's security is mostly constrained by customer service, I will disagree with some of the LEO posters, in that international maritime law gives the ship's Master, or his designee, "overriding authority", or the authority to do whatever is necessary to protect the safety of the vessel, crew, cargo (passengers) and environment.

[Saab4444]

The security on the ships is not exactly the secret service or bar bouncers.

More like mall guards.

Someone who is big & strong could take many of them to subdue.

I wonder if they have some sort of protocol if anything major happens where staff in other departments get involved like they do with the muster drill.

Luckily this type of stuff is very rare.

 

 

 

Many security staff on cruise ships are former Gurkhas so do not underestimate their level of training and capabilities if really needed. They are absolutely not like mall guards.

 

 

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[chengkp75]

 

 

And don't forget the inevitable second guessing that would follow from corporate headquarters, if

injuries occurred to the out of control "guest".

 

Mac

also a Retired LEO

 

Given the "overriding authority" granted to the Master by the ISM and the flag state's enabling legislation, there really could be no "second guessing".

 

RCL Security does have body cams, for about a year now.

 

Mac

 

Okay, wasn't aware of that, and a bit surprised.

[wendychloecruiser]

We were recently on the Inde TA and following the stop at St Kitts there was a significant and very visible increase in the number of uniformed security guards all over the ship. I thought the ship was lost and we were going through the Gulf of Aden or something.

 

All of the guards that I saw had body cameras and some had zip ties in their belts. There were rumours going around that there were several thefts and assaults on board but again, just rumours.

[undercat]

We were recently on the Inde TA and following the stop at St Kitts there was a significant and very visible increase in the number of uniformed security guards all over the ship. I thought the ship was lost and we were going through the Gulf of Aden or something.

 

 

 

All of the guards that I saw had body cameras and some had zip ties in their belts. There were rumours going around that there were several thefts and assaults on board but again, just rumours.

 

 

 

I too noticed the suddenly increased security presence on the Dec. 21 Indy cruise, and wondered what might have spurred it. I hadn’t heard the incident rumors.

[constable145]

Given the "overriding authority" granted to the Master by the ISM and the flag state's enabling legislation, there really could be no "second guessing".

 

 

 

Okay, wasn't aware of that, and a bit surprised.

Bodycams are nothing more than a public relations tool.

 

While they are useful sometimes in determining what happened they have many limitations.

 

If they were able to record everything the officer was processing through their entire sensory system then I'd be cool with them but they only show what is happening directly in front of the officer's torso and not where they are looking.

 

They are a step in the right direction but they are not infallible.

 

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[Merion_Mom]

Many security staff on cruise ships are former Gurkhas so do not underestimate their level of training and capabilities if really needed. They are absolutely not like mall guards.

 

 

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And many are IDF.

[tml1230]

The security on the ships is not exactly the secret service or bar bouncers.

More like mall guards.

Someone who is big & strong could take many of them to subdue."

 

 

to me this sounds like an incredibly ignorant statement. can you back it up with facts about their training and background?

[constable145]

The security on the ships is not exactly the secret service or bar bouncers.

More like mall guards.

Someone who is big & strong could take many of them to subdue."

 

 

to me this sounds like an incredibly ignorant statement. can you back it up with facts about their training and background?

 

It is an ignorant statement. As someone who has extensive training in this area and is in good shape, I've had my fair share of encounters where I've subdued someone who is far bigger and stronger than I am...

 

I've also been in situations where someone much smaller with much more training would have kicked my ass if I didn't have tools and backup.

[jamesr3939]

 

I've also been in situations where someone much smaller with much more training would have kicked my ass if I didn't have tools and backup.

 

True statement!!!

 

I still remember my FTO telling me, "nobody said we had to fight fair."

 

However, I will say based on the original description of the event it doesn't sound like it was handled correctly. The resistance should have been controlled much quicker, even without mechanical restraints or chemical weapons. A properly applied physical control method should have gotten the individual out of the area and public view much sooner.

[constable145]

 

True statement!!!

 

I still remember my FTO telling me, "nobody said we had to fight fair."

 

However, I will say based on the original description of the event it doesn't sound like it was handled correctly. The resistance should have been controlled much quicker, even without mechanical restraints or chemical weapons. A properly applied physical control method should have gotten the individual out of the area and public view much sooner.

 

Amen. I fight dirty if I have to. I have to go home at the end of my shift.

 

 

I don't like to play Monday morning QB, but I think I would have likely handled the situation differently also.

[shipgeeks]

and many are idf.

idf?

[chengkp75]

Israeli Defense Force

[Milwaukee Eight]

Security today needs to show a lot of restraint since they now wear body cameras. One wrong move on their part will immediately go against them.

 

Unfortunately the good old days are over.

 

 

 

Yes, this is very sad. I sure wouldn’t want to be in LE today.

 

 

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[sunflower001]

Thanks for all the responses. It's too bad the video isn't around then you can all see how it was handled.

 

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