Will overtourism affect river cruising?

[dansachs]

When we went to Paris, pre-pandemic, we were glad we got tickets to both the Louvre and the Eiffel Tower before we left the States. We avoided some big-time lines by planning in advance.

 

[CPT Trips]

We try to get admissions in advance to any popular site we know we definitely want to visit as long as it isn’t a weather dependent outdoor visit. Just be aware of that grand French tradition, the 55 minute strike.

[bfamily9]

3 hours ago, dansachs said:

When we went to Paris, pre-pandemic, we were glad we got tickets to both the Louvre and the Eiffel Tower before we left the States. We avoided some big-time lines by planning in advance.

 

Here's a link to purchase a pass: https://en.parisinfo.com/discovering-paris/info/guides/paris-museum-pass

[Canal archive]

The scariest thing ever in France was years ago during lorry drivers protest we were driving to Spain and the traffic came to a grinding halt on a French Autoroute the opposite carriageway was empty when over a slight rise appeared four huge lorries side by side followed by at least five rows of four driving very slowly it must be one of the most menacing sights I’ve ever seen and very impressive. The French do love their strikes.

[notamermaid]

After the forced break during 2020, 2021 and partially 2022, the topic is back - with a vengeance. We know that Amsterdam has had plans to reduce mass tourism for some time and now they are back on track with dealing with the river cruise ships, something the authorities had been intending to address. The topic is not new. Here is the latest. A German article says that 2,125 ships with about 500,000 passengers docked in Amsterdam in 2023. The authorities want to reduce that number to 1,150 ships maximum by 2028. The fate of ocean cruise ships is sealed. They will have to dock outside of Amsterdam (centre) when the terminal is ready: https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/stadt-will-haelfte-der-flusskreuzfahrtschiffe-verbannen-100.html

 

Guess who does not like the idea of reducing the number of river cruise ships? The IG River Cruise, an association for the industry that has just announced two new members. They are A-Rosa Flussschiff GmbH, Rostock, and van Loon Cruises Switzerland AG. IG River Cruise is planning political action. Unfortunately, there is no press release on their website as of now (at least I cannot find it). This is a Dutch article. Weirdly, the archive photo also shows the Britannia, which is, well, dead. She was scrapped a few years ago: https://www.scheepvaartkrant.nl/nieuws/ig-rivercruise-het-geweer-tegen-amsterdamse-beperkingen

 

Here is an article from the Netherlands: https://www.dutchnews.nl/2024/04/amsterdam-to-slash-river-cruise-stays-in-over-tourism-drive/

 

notamermaid

 

[Canal archive]

Did you see this report? Just a week or so ago.
 

 

Thousands rally in Spain's Canary Islands against mass tourism https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68865755

[pinotlover]

For European cities, the best fix is for the individual cities to establish significant size “ No Tour Bus Zones” in the heart of the towns. Rothenburg adT can be over packed, but imagine if they allowed tour buses inside the walls! Do the same in the other major cities, keep the tour buses out of the inner zones, and make the people walk. We were ( regrettably) on a Viking cruise in Hermitage several years back. The city square is not very large( maybe 150x75 yards), but the Viking buses made three stops around that small square picking up and dropping off passengers,  backing up all traffic as they did so. For the down town part of that visit there was no reason passengers couldn’t walk from where the boats were docked. Viking had three ships rafted in that small town and about 20 tour buses lined up all trying to depart about the same time. Absolutely that should be limited.

 

Tain Hermitage should ban all buses in that downtown area. 

Edited May 2 by pinotlover

[CDNPolar]

I believe that this is an issue for both River and Ocean cruisers that we will have to deal with as time marches on.  

 

I am most afraid of protesters that may in the future (as they have been known to do already) start to protest at cruise docks.

 

This could become like union strikes and trying to cross picket lines.

 

We love cruising but if this starts to happen we will rethink our travel strategy.

[pinotlover]

4000-6000 passengers cruise ships are insane. Having 3/4 in town at once is beyond that. I do believe that the massive ocean cruise ships will find fewer ports they are allowed to visit in the very near future. Isn’t a 6,000 passenger cruise ship a display of arrogance at some level? 

[notamermaid]

6,000 passengers on one ship is a feat to organize but in my opinion "bonkers". I suppose you could call it arrogance. Not sure why anyone would go on such a ship. Neighbours of mine went on a smaller one, something like 1,000 I guess, and they did not really enjoy it that much.

2 hours ago, pinotlover said:

I do believe that the massive ocean cruise ships will find fewer ports they are allowed to visit in the very near future.

It is heading that way, even more a reason not to build such huge ships.

 

When I read the figure of river cruise ships I thought: "that is quite a sum". When I read the passenger count I thought "that is not that much as a percentage of all tourists per year in Amsterdam". 20 million bookings of overnight stays are a bit more than the humble river cruise tourists...  If I have understood the authorities correctly they have an issue with the noise, pollution and coaches more than with the actual number of river cruise tourists. Of course, Amsterdam is overall trying to keep people from coming to the city meaning a kind anti-tourism marketing. I know many people enjoy the city but I am happy to oblige and satisfy the authorities. Give me a bit of pocket money and I may be persuaded to step foot in the city for two hours. Pop into the Rijksmuseum to see the ships (models) and a couple of other exhibits. Otherwise I will just revisit Groningen.

 

If I wanted to be malicious I would say that they could just close the Rhine Amsterdam Canal. Reduces the ships by something like 95 percent (a few small ships can come via the other routes)...

 

We have talked about other places before, like Heidelberg. And in Rothenburg, yes, it is a good thing that the coaches cannot go into the small town. It is a very easy place to walk in. The alternative would of course be to not offer the excursion to that town. But it is a real sell, i.e. one of the biggest draws for sailing the Main river, I should think. I am happy to admit for very good reasons.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

[Host Jazzbeau]

7 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

I believe that this is an issue for both River and Ocean cruisers that we will have to deal with as time marches on.  

 

I am most afraid of protesters that may in the future (as they have been known to do already) start to protest at cruise docks.

 

This could become like union strikes and trying to cross picket lines.

 

We love cruising but if this starts to happen we will rethink our travel strategy.

We cruisers can fight back.  Turn your champagne bottle into a crowd-control water cannon!  🤣

[Canal archive]

Of course but only after we’ve consumed the contents!

[Nippy Sweetie]

Over tourism is a serious problem. I saw that Norway is fed up with the cruise ships which disgorge thousands of passengers who may buy a few nick- nacks but rush back on board to eat.

Certainly where I live, tourists are a blight. Whole parts of town are inaccessible due to crowds and everyday life is harder and harder. I can quite understand why Venice is charging admission.

[Canal archive]

Yes Nippy Sweetie apart from our age it’s the reason we sold our place in Scotland we purchased 35 years ago it was (and still is to a certain extent) a joy to drive around discovering some of the most beautiful parts of the world but now it can sometimes be to much of a hassle, but as I said age does not make a vast difference.

Its becoming more and more difficult to get away from - the herd.

[CDNPolar]

I live just outside of Toronto so I don't see what tourism does to this city on a daily basis - especially in the summer and on the weekends - and there are more ships coming to Toronto now...

 

What I do know is that as someone that works in the downtown financial district of the city - which is also tourist area, that when you are rushing for the commuter train and you are constantly being blocked by groups of people taking pictures and stopping in their tracks to look up, it can get frustrating.

 

I get this in many cities and countries.  As Cruisers, we do NOT spend money in most countries that we visit.  Not on souvenirs, not on coffee, not on an ice cream.  We do our excursion and go back to the ship.  Occasionally we will stay on shore for a lunch, but that has to be for some authentic cuisine that intrigues us. 

 

Our dollars are being added to this country's economy by taking the excursion and the tour company and tour guide are the ones that are benefiting.

 

 

[pinotlover]

As one frustrated Barcelona shop keeper said “ They don’t hesitate to bring their own food off the ship, why do they never bring their own toilet paper from the ship?” 🤬

[CDNPolar]

3 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

As one frustrated Barcelona shop keeper said “ They don’t hesitate to bring their own food off the ship, why do they never bring their own toilet paper from the ship?” 🤬

 

I do bet that cruisers wanting to use the toilets are a frustration for many restaurants and shop keepers.

[Canal archive]

C***********P what an absolutely brilliant way of putting it! 
Especially as Barcelona is such a wonderful city one of my cities of the world.

[pontac]

Another reason river ships start/end in Amsterdam  is its proximity to an airport with excellent international connections.

 

So the airport benefits from airline fees, Amsterdam gets mooring fees, and perhaps licence fees from tour guides.

 

On our river cruise beginning and ending in Amsterdam last month we bought an evening meal in a restaurant, paid for visits to two museums, bought coffees and shopped.

 

The included canal boat cruise provided employment for the canal boat crew and money to the canal boat company which of course was taxed. I don't know if anyone bought things at the diamond factory visited at the end but enough river cruisers must so to make it worthwhile to the factory. Then there are the coaches and taxis the river cruise companies use.

 

And the hotels used for pre & post extensions, and consequential meals and museum entry fees.

 

I reckon Amsterdam and the Netherland government do all right out of river cruisers

[pinotlover]

35 minutes ago, pontac said:

Another reason river ships start/end in Amsterdam  is its proximity to an airport with excellent international connections.

 

So the airport benefits from airline fees, Amsterdam gets mooring fees, and perhaps licence fees from tour guides.

 

On our river cruise beginning and ending in Amsterdam last month we bought an evening meal in a restaurant, paid for visits to two museums, bought coffees and shopped.

 

The included canal boat cruise provided employment for the canal boat crew and money to the canal boat company which of course was taxed. I don't know if anyone bought things at the diamond factory visited at the end but enough river cruisers must so to make it worthwhile to the factory. Then there are the coaches and taxis the river cruise companies use.

 

And the hotels used for pre & post extensions, and consequential meals and museum entry fees.

 

I reckon Amsterdam and the Netherland government do all right out of river cruisers

Your point is well taken for the Embarkment or disembarkment city of cruises, river or ocean . However, for those ports in the middle the story can be quite different. Cities such as Barcelona and Venice are now only allowing those cruises that start or depart from their cities to dock their. Other, just visiting cruises, dock a couple hours away. 

[pontac]

Since I've not been on an ocean cruise I can't comment.

 

I was staying in Paihia, a small seaside town on the Bay of Islands, New Zealand and one day saw what looked like a block of flats out in the bay. It was a cruise ship and the tenders went back and forth and the town was jammed for the day. The main street was packed from one side to the other, then they went back to the tenders and the town resumed it's sleepy existence till the same day the next week when it happened again.

 

 

But there's thousands on some cruise ships, whereas river boats have under 200 people.

[sharkster77]

We live less than 1 hour from Cape Cod and we don't even think of going near there in July and August.  Spring and fall only.

[pinotlover]

2 hours ago, pontac said:

Since I've not been on an ocean cruise I can't comment.

 

 

But there's thousands on some cruise ships, whereas river boats have under 200 people.

You should see some of the small cities in the Mosel or Rhone get slammed with 10-12 of those boats in a day,along with all the tour buses with them. Viking triple rafts, Uniworld double, then AMA, Avalon, CroisiEurpoe, Tauck, & Scenic all slamming Tain at the same time. Then the paying guests from the hotels!

 

Even cities like Heidelberg needs to ban all tour buses from the castle to the river, and at least 1.5 km each way from the Rathaus and cathedral. 

[notamermaid]

2 hours ago, pontac said:

Another reason river ships start/end in Amsterdam  is its proximity to an airport with excellent international connections.

 

So the airport benefits from airline fees, Amsterdam gets mooring fees, and perhaps licence fees from tour guides.

Excellent point.

 

I would say that overall Amsterdam is faring well with river cruise tourists who tend to be a very agreeable crowd and do sometimes stay overnight. It appears that the authorities target almost all types of tourism and see how they can curb the numbers of visitors per year. They intend to go for the 50 percent by 2028 so who knows they may revise that plan and keep the percentage higher. Still four years to go and enough time for the river cruise companies to complain. One does wonder - where else are they supposed to start the cruise from? I doubt that the river cruise ships will sail much from Utrecht (far too small for the logistics) or even Rotterdam. They would have to take the train or the coach from Amsterdam airport. Not environmentally friendly...

 

Talking of which. As regards European river cruises the Grand European (or similar name) from Amsterdam to Budapest is quite heavy on the environment, i.e. possibly the top spot for coach travel during a cruise. There is at least one town that is only used as a drop off or pick up point and you have long distance excursions, not to mention the shuttles that take you into town from the harbour (like in Nuremberg where walking that distance is quite the time-consuming hike even for the younger legs - 90 minutes).

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

7 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

You should see some of the small cities in the Mosel or Rhone

Funny you should mention that as I have just read an article on overtourism in Germany, a very recent one at that. It identifies - you have guessed it - towns on the Moselle as potential candidates for overtourism, being what the Federal Government calls "besonders Tourismus-intensive Gemeinden". In this article of the regional broadcaster SWR they give towns for Rhineland-Palatinate and Baden-Würrtemberg. Among them are our favourites Cochem and Bernkastel-Kues: https://www.swr.de/swrkultur/leben-und-gesellschaft/overtourism-im-suedwesten-100.html

 

notamermaid