There is a major inequity in distribution of the Hotel Service Charge

[JT1962]

Agree. This is an employer/employee issue. It is not our business or our concern. We are customers.

 

 

 

I absolutely agree. If the employees aren’t satisfied, they can choose not to work there. If passengers feel that staff is not paid enough, or offer exceptional service, then they are free to give them tips directly.

 

 

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[sail7seas]

I don't care because

1. It is none of my business

2. There is nothing I can do about it.

3. I make sure anyone who does something special for me gets a bit extra.

 

Exactly........... :)

[OlsSalt]

Good start, but you have missed some very important factors in the distribution of the tip pool:

 

Several major cruise lines skim around 10% off the top of the pool, ostensibly to pay for credit card fees and to make a "slush fund" for cruises that do not make the guaranteed minimum salaries (Dry Docks, and cruises with too many Brits or Aussies). HAL and Princess come to mind as good examples.

 

Depending on the mix of nationalities and many other factors, somewhere between 5% and 25% of the passengers on every cruise remove the auto tips and give nothing to the staff.

 

Some passengers (a smaller percentage) give additional tips to their favorite staff.

 

To reduce operating costs, several mass market cruise lines have added a substantial number of management staff to the tip pool (in lieu of increasing their salaries), diluting it further.

 

Most tipped crewmembers on cruise ships are paid just over - or just under - US$1 per day, according to their employment contract, plus tips.

 

All the mass market cruise lines use a separate tipping scheme for bar staff. But some cruise lines are now using Bar Staff to speed up the turnaround days at the end of the cruise. They are now included in part of the hotel tipping pool,further diluting it. HAL is the best example of this.

 

Several nationalities (Filipinos and Indonesians are the best examples) are legally required to send a substantial percentage of their salaries back to their home countries - via their Government-supported hiring agencies. The agencies manage to siphon off about 20% of the money before it reaches the crewmembers' families.

 

Crewmembers on ships agree to work 13 hours per day, 7 days per week. That's 91 hours per week. This is the maximum legally allowed by the ILO. But many crew must work more than that in order to get the job done.

Typically they work over 100 hours per week.

They just can't report the extra hours.

Now work out what you think they earn per month, and divide it by the 400 hours they work every month.

 

Willing seller meets a willing buyer. End of story.

[sail7seas]

The crew agrees to their compensation package when they sign their contracts. For me, that's end of story.

 

THEY ARE MEMBERS OF UNIONS THAT PRESUMABLY LOOK AFER THEIR interests..

[iamirish]

I have a different take . . . why not raise the salary of the workers and add the "mandatory service fee" to the price of the cruise and allow us to tip EXTRA for those that give us extraordinary service.

[IslandThyme]

Thank you, CHPURSER, for those additional details. People who are interested in the well-being of the staff, I hope I meet you on future cruises.

[RuthC]

I have a different take . . . why not raise the salary of the workers and add the "mandatory service fee" to the price of the cruise and allow us to tip EXTRA for those that give us extraordinary service.

It's been posted often enough why that is not a good idea, for several reasons.

If the amount you pay with a fare and HSC amounts to the same for you as adding the HSC to the fare---but the staff who receive the HSC get less under the second scenario---then that's the reason not to roll the HSC into the fare right there.

[OlsSalt]

Thank you, CHPURSER, for those additional details. People who are interested in the well-being of the staff, I hope I meet you on future cruises.

 

Proposed new HAL marketing theme: Make every cruise a guilt trip.

[Expat Cruise]

I absolutely agree. If the employees aren’t satisfied, they can choose not to work there. If passengers feel that staff is not paid enough, or offer exceptional service, then they are free to give them tips directly.

 

 

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Or free to remove from your bill because the cruise lines are involved in fraud when they represent these payments go to the workers. Sometimes we as humans need to stand up for what is right.

[OlsSalt]

Or free to remove from your bill because the cruise lines are involved in fraud when they represent these payments go to the workers. Sometimes we as humans need to stand up for what is right.

 

We stand up for what is right all the time. Including using the power of our votes, our personal choices, and our own pocket books. If your sole point is to defame HAL and accuse it of criminal fraud, you have now made your point in public. Best wishes.

[sail7seas]

Or free to remove from your bill because the cruise lines are involved in fraud when they represent these payments go to the workers. Sometimes we as humans need to stand up for what is right.

 

 

 

THAT is a very strong and serious accusation Speaking only for myself, I hav e seen no credible proof it is true and I seriously doubt such an accusation is appropriate or proveable. There are lots of accusations thrown around these days yet a huge number are never proven or even close to true Do you have anything to back up your accusation with facts?

[Paulinda]

Or free to remove from your bill because the cruise lines are involved in fraud when they represent these payments go to the workers. Sometimes we as humans need to stand up for what is right.

seriously doubt they are defrauding the workers. every worker i've ever talked to seemed happy, contented and smiled more than the customers on the cruise. they must love what they do and i'm sure they are earning much more on a ship than wherever they call home.

[Expat Cruise]

THAT is a very strong and serious accusation Speaking only for myself, I hav e seen no credible proof it is true and I seriously doubt such an accusation is appropriate or proveable. There are lots of accusations thrown around these days yet a huge number are never proven or even close to true Do you have anything to back up your accusation with facts?

 

If you had taken the time to read the thread already provide proof. I have direct statements from crew members. You can believe or not believe. I have made the same claims under the pains and penalties of perjury in legal actions against cruise lines and none have ever come after me for these statements. Because they know it would require them to provide access to information that would bury them.

[sail7seas]

I totally thought this was going to say “everyone pays. “ I was going to say well played.

 

 

 

I agree we cannot asume what percentage of people actually pay the hoel service charge Shame on those who do no t . Disgraceful IMO I won't articulate all the adjectives that come to mind about those who remove it, How do they look in a mirror?

[Expat Cruise]

seriously doubt they are defrauding the workers. every worker i've ever talked to seemed happy, contented and smiled more than the customers on the cruise. they must love what they do and i'm sure they are earning much more on a ship than wherever they call home.

 

Talk to them in their homes off the ships and the story will be different. Also understand they do not trust most passengers with the truth because they are scared to loose their jobs. When you as a passenger on the ship talk, they do not know if you have any relationship to cruise management.

 

When I go to a Family Wedding and the Groom works for a cruise line he is free to speak the truth about his job. Yes I am a American but my wife is Filipino and I have lived here PI and SE Asia for almost 20 years. You get the truth in these situations.

[OlsSalt]

If you had taken the time to read the thread already provide proof. I have direct statements from crew members. You can believe or not believe. I have made the same claims under the pains and penalties of perjury in legal actions against cruise lines and none have ever come after me for these statements. Because they know it would require them to provide access to information that would bury them.

 

You are on anonymous digital forum. You offered nothing other than a string of self-composed electrons. But you intentionally defamed HAL. Take your crusade to a court of law instead of intentionally trying to slur HAL on the web.

[sail7seas]

I totally thought this was going to say “everyone pays. “ I was going to say well played.

I agree we cannot assume what percentage of people actually pay the hotel service charge Shame on those who do no t . Disgraceful IMO I won't articulate all the adjectives that come to mind about those who remove it, How do they look in a mirror?

[Expat Cruise]

You are on anonymous digital forum. You offered nothing other than a string of self-composed electrons. But you intentionally defamed HAL. Take your crusade to a court of law instead of intentionally trying to slur HAL on the web.

 

Sorry you do not control who can post information and opinions here. You are free to post as I am free to post. The readers can and should look at the information and then make the choices needed. Including if they want to believe a post or dismiss it.

[OlsSalt]

Talk to them in their homes off the ships and the story will be different. Also understand they do not trust most passengers with the truth because they are scared to loose their jobs. When you as a passenger on the ship talk, they do not know if you have any relationship to cruise management.

 

When I go to a Family Wedding and the Groom works for a cruise line he is free to speak the truth about his job. Yes I am a American but my wife is Filipino and I have lived here PI and SE Asia for almost 20 years. You get the truth in these situations.

 

No, you do not get the truth in these settings, because the truth is they accepted the job. Most employees complain about their bosses ...around the world. When they should be seeking employment elsewhere.

 

To take a job and underhandedly malign their employer is the lowest form of an employee complaint and deserves to be ignored. Your impact is to make me feel less comfortable adding the extra tips we always include at the end. Thank you for letting us know crew members hate their work and the passengers they pretend to serve.

[sail7seas]

Sorry you do not control who can post information and opinions here. You are free to post as I am free to post. The readers can and should look at the information and then make the choices needed. Including if they want to believe a post or dismiss it.

 

 

 

 

Have you ever worked on a cruise ship? On a HAL ship? If not, all you admit presenting here is 'hea r say, which means that at best we are getting it second or third or worse hand..

 

If you were speaking from personal experience, it would have more 'weight', iMO Of course, none of us would know if you ever worked at sea. :) Same as we canno t know for sure about so much written on various internet forums

 

However, as you say, as long as we abide by CC rules, we can post freely.

[Billthekid]

You are assuming that each dining steward receives the same portion, 1/110th. That may or may not be the case.

 

You also referred to the increase to $13.50 from $10 as a 3.5% increase. I think it is a 35% increase.

 

Not everyone who works on a ship is part of the HSC pool.

 

And any cabin referred to as a "suite" will have the higher per day HSC. Vista Suite, Signature Suite, in addition to NS and Pinnacle.

 

You are also assuming each cabin carries 2 people, which is not necessarily the case. The other assumption you are making is that everyone who SHOULD pay the HSC will pay it.

 

Thank you for correcting my data. Decimal Points has always been a problem for me. A 35% increase is substantial for a gratuity based hotel service charge. There must be more to the story,

[OlsSalt]

Sorry you do not control who can post information and opinions here. You are free to post as I am free to post. The readers can and should look at the information and then make the choices needed. Including if they want to believe a post or dismiss it.

 

Just don't call your strings of anonymous electrons the "truth". They are not. They are as you state, only your opinions. No one can threaten censorship on this forum. Only the moderator can control the flow of conversations.

[JT1962]

A 35% increase is substantial for a gratuity based hotel service charge. There must be more to the story,

 

 

Over 21 years (1997 - 2018), it is actually around 3% increase per year, so not out of line with inflation / normal salary increases for most workers.

 

 

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[OlsSalt]

Over 21 years (1997 - 2018), it is actually around 3% increase per year, so not out of line with inflation / normal salary increases for most workers.

 

 

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2017 CCL Annual Reports stated (as I recall) there was 3-4% increase in operating expenses over last year- listing out the general categories, including costs of employees. You are right on target.

 

Replacing all "dated bathroom decor" is also an increased operating expense, even though they remain primarily functional.

[VennDiagram]

Over 21 years (1997 - 2018), it is actually around 3% increase per year, so not out of line with inflation / normal salary increases for most workers.

 

 

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Is 1997 the year the HSC was introduced?