There is a major inequity in distribution of the Hotel Service Charge

[Billthekid]

I worked with numbers back in the real world when I was working and I enjoyed looking behind the numbers.. The Hotel Service Charge started at $10 pp pd back in 1997 and represented gratuities and replaced the individual choice. Since then the charge has increased to $13.50 pp pd, a 3.5% increase. I guess that represents inflation and cost of living increases. Guest services told me those funds are distributed 35% to cabin stewards, 35% to dining room stewards and assistants, and 30% to behind the scene workers such as laundry, dish washer, etc. I talked to several persons and was told there are 110 dining room staff workers and 43 cabin stewards on our ship the Rotterdam. So 35% of $13.50 is $4.72 per eligible person per day. There are 1,404 passengers on the ship if it is full. So now it gets complicated. 1,404 passengers each paying $13.50, of which 35% or $4.72 per day would generate $6,625 per day which would be divided by 43 cabin stewards or $154 each, or $4,600 per month. For the dining staff $6,625 would be divided by 110 stewards that would mean $60 per day per seward, or $1,800 per month. A major difference. So where am I going wrong? Is the Hotel Service Charge is not just for cabin and dining stewards? There is an additional 30% going to behind the scene personnel. There are 604 crew members Daily receipt from the 1,404 passengers is $19,000, and 604 crew member, each would receive $32 per day, or $950 per month. But, crew members include officers, Chefs, managers, bar and wine persons, all of whom are compensated otherwise. Sorry for so many numbers, but wanted to open discussion on the subject. Have at it:hearteyes:.

[Underwatr]

Bar & wine staff are presumably compensated from per-drink gratuities. I assume that officers and managers are salaried and do not share in the tip pool. Galley employees below chef may be in the tip pool.

 

It may be that room stewards are higher paid than dining room staff, given the nature of their jobs in closer proximity to my stuff. Both positions work long days, though. I'm not really going to lose sleep over any apparent disparities. They manage to find people willing to work for the compensation they offer.

[sail7seas]

I worked with numbers back in the real world when I was working and I enjoyed looking behind the numbers.. The Hotel Service Charge started at $10 pp pd back in 1997 and represented gratuities and replaced the individual choice. Since then the charge has increased to $13.50 pp pd, a 3.5% increase. I guess that represents inflation and cost of living increases. Guest services told me those funds are distributed 35% to cabin stewards, 35% to dining room stewards and assistants, and 30% to behind the scene workers such as laundry, dish washer, etc. I talked to several persons and was told there are 110 dining room staff workers and 43 cabin stewards on our ship the Rotterdam. So 35% of $13.50 is $4.72 per eligible person per day. There are 1,404 passengers on the ship if it is full. So now it gets complicated. 1,404 passengers each paying $13.50, of which 35% or $4.72 per day would generate $6,625 per day which would be divided by 43 cabin stewards or $154 each, or $4,600 per month. For the dining staff $6,625 would be divided by 110 stewards that would mean $60 per day per seward, or $1,800 per month. A major difference. So where am I going wrong? Is the Hotel Service Charge is not just for cabin and dining stewards? There is an additional 30% going to behind the scene personnel. There are 604 crew members Daily receipt from the 1,404 passengers is $19,000, and 604 crew member, each would receive $32 per day, or $950 per month. But, crew members include officers, Chefs, managers, bar and wine persons, all of whom are compensated otherwise. Sorry for so many numbers, but wanted to open discussion on the subject. Have at it:hearteyes:.

 

 

You did not calculate the pp pd hotel service charge is at a higher rate for people in Neptune and Pinnacle suites. That omission has to have skewed the rest of y our calculations

Thank you for all your efforts.

 

I don't care even a teeny tiny bit how the s/c is distributed and cannot imagine a reason to go to all that trouble. I, too, worked with numbers during my 'working years'. I always liked numb ers. But truf ully would never go to that trouble to know how much of the tip goes to whom..

Edited March 29, 2018 by sail7seas

[sail7seas]

I worked with numbers back in the real world when I was working and I enjoyed looking behind the numbers.. The Hotel Service Charge started at $10 pp pd back in 1997 and represented gratuities and replaced the individual choice. Since then the charge has increased to $13.50 pp pd, a 3.5% increase. I guess that represents inflation and cost of living increases. Guest services told me those funds are distributed 35% to cabin stewards, 35% to dining room stewards and assistants, and 30% to behind the scene workers such as laundry, dish washer, etc. I talked to several persons and was told there are 110 dining room staff workers and 43 cabin stewards on our ship the Rotterdam. So 35% of $13.50 is $4.72 per eligible person per day. There are 1,404 passengers on the ship if it is full. So now it gets complicated. 1,404 passengers each paying $13.50, of which 35% or $4.72 per day would generate $6,625 per day which would be divided by 43 cabin stewards or $154 each, or $4,600 per month. For the dining staff $6,625 would be divided by 110 stewards that would mean $60 per day per seward, or $1,800 per month. A major difference. So where am I going wrong? Is the Hotel Service Charge is not just for cabin and dining stewards? There is an additional 30% going to behind the scene personnel. There are 604 crew members Daily receipt from the 1,404 passengers is $19,000, and 604 crew member, each would receive $32 per day, or $950 per month. But, crew members include officers, Chefs, managers, bar and wine persons, all of whom are compensated otherwise. Sorry for so many numbers, but wanted to open discussion on the subject. Have at it:hearteyes:.

You did not calculate the pp hotel service charge is at a higher rate for people in Neptune and Pinnacle suites. That omission has to have skewed the rest of y our calculations

[VennDiagram]

For the dining staff $6,625 would be divided by 110 stewards that would mean $60 per day per seward, or $1,800 per month. A major difference.

You are assuming that each dining steward receives the same portion, 1/110th. That may or may not be the case.

 

You also referred to the increase to $13.50 from $10 as a 3.5% increase. I think it is a 35% increase.

 

Not everyone who works on a ship is part of the HSC pool.

 

And any cabin referred to as a "suite" will have the higher per day HSC. Vista Suite, Signature Suite, in addition to NS and Pinnacle.

 

You are also assuming each cabin carries 2 people, which is not necessarily the case. The other assumption you are making is that everyone who SHOULD pay the HSC will pay it.

[sail7seas]

VERY good point, You cannot ASSume two persons to a cabin. I am a solo sailing alone in a Neptune

 

Other cabins may have four persons............

[iancal]

Don't know. We assume it as part of our fare. After that we do not care.

[sammiedawg]

I don’t worry about it. I also don’t worry about my tip in a restaurant, knowing the waitress tips out a portion to busboys, hostess, etc.

We are just customers and feel crew compensation is above our pay grade.

[sail7seas]

Once I pay a tip or hotel service charge, I give it no thought as It is no longer my money and not my business what is done with the money I gave as tip It is now their money to do with as they will.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Interesting Thread.

Did you count that some cabins have 2 stewards while others have only 1?

Aren't the Lido workers also paid the same proportion since many of them take turns in the dining room?

[sail7seas]

Room service stewards also work MDR or Lido, some hours....

[SetAnOpenCourse]

I’m hoping that the people saying they don’t care are saying that because they assume the compensation is fair, and fairly distributed.

 

🤔

[ellieanne]

As an average, I think the numbers are fair. But I think the crew who receive the 30% portion of the Hotel Service Charge are paid differently to begin with. Most of those are the behind the scenes crew who rarely if ever see or interact with passengers. They are a vital part of the crew, but not the crew that passengers ever see.

I think it's great that they get even a portion of the service charge. I certainly think the guy who does my laundry deserves a portion of the tip, and I will never see him to be able to give him one in person.

At the same time I know the distribution is never going to be equal, nor should it be, but it can be fair and equitable and even based on your average numbers, I believe it is that.

[Stratheden]

I’m hoping that the people saying they don’t care are saying that because they assume the compensation is fair, and fairly distributed.

 

🤔

 

 

I don't care because

1. It is none of my business

2. There is nothing I can do about it.

3. I make sure anyone who does something special for me gets a bit extra.

[haladdict]

The cruise lines have come up with a way to divide up the tips, so I leave it to them.

I don't worry about things that are out of my control.

Sandra

[ithaca gal]

How they distribute the HSC is none of my business.

 

Sadly, not everyone leaves the HSC in place for reasons and excuses known only to them.

 

Lastly, seeing all these calculations may influence MORE people to remove the HSC.

 

Why not break down the cabin fares and see how much goes for food, fuel, salaries, etc?

[IslandThyme]

I DO care, and thank you for the discussion started. Since I will give additional tips beyond the HSC, I like to know how the HSC is divided. I too would like to give the laundry and galley workers a fair share. Anyone who's ever done a below decks tour has seen that those folks work under very difficult, hot, sweaty conditions with no access to windows or fresh air. It's pretty brutal work, and I'd like to be able to express my appreciation. Yes, I know they signed up for it. That doesn't mean that I enjoy exploiting their poverty.

[Underwatr]

But you don't seem to have identified a remedy.

[alwaysfrantic]

VERY good point, You cannot ASSume

 

I totally thought this was going to say “everyone pays. “ I was going to say well played.

[jhannah]

The crew agrees to their compensation package when they sign their contracts. For me, that's end of story.

[iancal]

Agree. This is an employer/employee issue. It is not our business or our concern. We are customers.

[OlsSalt]

I took the behind the scenes tour and got a much different impression of both working conditions and commraderie. This was not a Dickesonian hellhole at all, but large, well lighted, very clean and well ventilated spaces - yes it is interior, but the crew have their own outside gathering areas so their working conditions were no different from regular office workers inside cubicle farms who go outside only during their break times.

 

What was most reassuring was the obvious commarderie and pride in workmanship we observed throughout the various work stations. This did not come across as a forced display but a genuinely cheerful and hard working environment - work hard for a few months and then have time off with a tidy sum to take home. Not unlike jobs I have taken in my own past. And thankful for them.

 

No, we did not visit the engine room where these conditions will be nosier and hotter, but that is the nature of the work people signed up for which also requires good technical skills - this is not some "exploited" forced labor camp. One does not run a modern ship today on "exploited poverty" of the workers.

 

BTW: thanks to the OP for running those numbers - an interesting analysis on its own, regardless of any glitches in the actual numbers or allocation schemes. Agree, however this allocation is something that is mutually bargain for between crew and management and a lot fairer in the long run for all concerned than the prior individual tipping to only those who had the primary contact with the public.

 

Almost universally HAL passengers praise the courteous professionalism of the HAL crews and their always welcoming and helpful attitudes make HAL ships more than just a transportation bus trip, taking us from place to place. HAL must be doing something right to get such consistent high praise.

 

And finally, I think dealing with the public can be one of the hardest jobs out there so if those who have primary interface with the paying customers get more compensation via the HSC, I think it has probably been well earned.

[bUU]

I didn't see where you factored in the difference in base salary from staff member to staff member. While for many of them the gratuities are the bulk of what they earn they do earn other money than that.

 

This post may have been entered by voice recognition. Please excuse any typographical errors.

[kazu]

I DO care, and thank you for the discussion started. Since I will give additional tips beyond the HSC, I like to know how the HSC is divided. I too would like to give the laundry and galley workers a fair share. Anyone who's ever done a below decks tour has seen that those folks work under very difficult, hot, sweaty conditions with no access to windows or fresh air. It's pretty brutal work, and I'd like to be able to express my appreciation. Yes, I know they signed up for it. That doesn't mean that I enjoy exploiting their poverty.

 

Not quite sure I follow the reasoning here.

 

As long as you keep the HSC in place, any additional tips that you choose to give out are that person's to keep.

 

You can tip extra to anyone you wish so, you can easily give additional compensation to whomever you wish (including the laundry department).

[Expat Cruise]

The crew agrees to their compensation package when they sign their contracts. For me, that's end of story.

 

Agreed, nothing more is required. If you want to give a gratuity do so directly to who you want to get it and do not let other staff members see.

 

But if you think the cruise lines are giving all the money to the crew from the service fees you are absolutely wrong. I live in the Philippines, thanks to my wife I can speak Tagalog, I have talked to workers off the ships when they are are between contracts, they do not get what you think. Some lines even require cash tips to be report and turned in, that is why I always tip in private.

 

My last cruise I like the cabin steward very much, a nice young man from Nepal. He was very helpful. So at the end of the cruise the smaller paper money I had from three ports and the coins I placed in a dish for him, and told him it was his take it the last night. Into his pocket it went. He thanked me and said "please do not report this (tip) on your comment card"

 

For these reasons and others I hate pooled service fees and will always do everything I can to remove or get rid of them. I really like Seabourn, no added fees and they don't shame anyone into tipping, they pay the staff and the staff is happy.