Automatic Gratuities

[KevintheIrishDJ]

During a 20 day B2B last week, I spoke to two passengerswho opted out of the Automatic Gratuities. They said they were only going to tip the wait staff in the MD. I tried to explain that they are only servedby them once a day. That is why the tipsare shared with other staff members. Both said they didn’t like the way the tips were shared, even thoughthey didn’t know exactly how they were shared. One said it was Communism. Theother said no one on the staff ever served her in the buffet or on deck. Several days before, she told my DW how richshe was. :o

[voljeep]

We've never opted out, and prolly never will unless under extreme circumstances...which we would still then overtip the people who deserved it..

 

When more people complain and start to opt out over Princess not having full disclosure over 'exactly' how the 'gratuity' is distributed, well...

[Thrak]

If they remove the auto grats then the people they do tip don't get to keep the tip. Seems counter-productive and a tightwad way to go. I just consider the gratuities to be part of the cost of the cruise. The only time ever really get upset on a cruise is on the last day before disembarkation day when there is a crowd of people at the passenger services desk removing the gratuities.

[moki'smommy]

And your point is???? Do you want us to all chime in and say how awful she was? I think most people who post here would agree that the serving staff more than earns their tips. How tips are divided and the great secrecy that Princess keeps on this matter is another issue. Other lines are much more open about this, or they allow their crew to be when asked.

 

Princess allows guests to cancel the standard, automatic tips. That's how they keep it as a tip and not some sort of a service charge that they might be taxed on.

 

No, I don't agree with her decision. On the other hand, it is her right to make that decision

[sewgood]

I wonder if they tipped their room steward.

 

Perhaps this is how they became so rich. :rolleyes:

[neverbeenhere]

My response: I don’t ascertain how my location restaurants, bars or hotels “handle” the gratuities, so I see no point in attempting to determine the “split” on a cruise ship. When we first were cruising, it was a more important issue as I was of the mind that the gratuity amount was going to matter in my overall lifestyle. After a period of time, I determined the amount was not going to change my life, but might help others change theirs. (Even if a little bit)

[voljeep]

do you tip customer service if you go to them with a problem?

 

what about the captain of the ship?

 

how about the singers and dancers that entertain you?

 

I just would like to know the EXACT allocation of the automatic hotel gratuity daily charge...

 

why is Princess so adamant in not releasing that information??

 

why is the 'room charge gratuity' the same for an interior room as a balcony??

 

does the steward ...aw... I know this is deleted also....can't question the man...

[Times Prince]

Like others, I consider the daily hotel charge part of the cost of the cruise, and the automatic bar tips to be part of the cost of a drink.

 

I do somewhat disagree with Princess saying that our hotel charges are shared "across the fleet", as I believe a tip is for the people who provided us service on THIS ship and cruise. That has provided me hesitation on more than one occasion. It is hard enough when one encounters the rare individual who is providing somewhat substandard service. But that's why we tip extra for the ones who go above and beyond.

 

As a CCL shareholder, I can understand why Princess Cruises keeps tips separate - and thus can advertise cabins at a lower cost than some other lines.

 

I only wish there were fewer people like the OP encountered who don't want to understand how the system is supposed to work, despite being told by the cruise staff (the cruise director makes an announcement, most times).

[Times Prince]

do you tip customer service if you go to them with a problem?

 

what about the captain of the ship?

 

how about the singers and dancers that entertain you?

 

I just would like to know the EXACT allocation of the automatic hotel gratuity daily charge...

 

why is Princess so adamant in not releasing that information??

 

why is the 'room charge gratuity' the same for an interior room as a balcony??

 

does the steward ...aw... I know this is deleted also....can't question the man...

The crew members you refer to are compensated differently. It is like the difference between "Exempt" and "salaried" workers in business. No company that I know of will tell you exactly how people are compensated, and one can always argue that the people who make a product should be compensated more than the manager who doesn't.

 

The hotel gratuity is for stewards, waiters, and those who make their excellent service possible - the behind the scenes people. Essentially those who provide YOU with direct service. Same for bar staff - the bar autotip is associated with the service and their compensation is proportional to the amount of drinks served.

 

Not all balconies have the same gratuity - it is higher for mini-suites and suites, which have more beds and room. They have apparently determined the effort to maintain an inside cabin and a standard balcony is comparable, thus we don't have a gradient system with every cabin size.

 

Bottom line, it's a business. We are customers, not managers. Sit back, relax, and enjoy the cruise.

[rkmw]

its a wonder princess havent included the gratuities in the fare like the aussie & kiwis and then no one can take them off

[cb at sea]

To each his own. You can't convince people to do the right thing...either they will or they won't. No sense worrying about it.

[L1211]

And your point is???? Do you want us to all chime in and say how awful she was? I think most people who post here would agree that the serving staff more than earns their tips. How tips are divided and the great secrecy that Princess keeps on this matter is another issue. Other lines are much more open about this' date=' or they allow their crew to be when asked.

 

 

 

Princess allows guests to cancel the standard, automatic tips. That's how they keep it as a tip and not some sort of a service charge that they might be taxed on.

 

 

 

No, I don't agree with her decision. On the other hand, it is her right to make that decision[/quote']

 

 

 

And your point is??? Sorry. Do not agree. Cheap is cheap.

 

 

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[bobby3334]

My question is do the employees ever see the tips or are they just added to profit.

 

 

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[geoherb]

My question is do the employees ever see the tips or are they just added to profit.

I'm sure the employees see the tips. Otherwise, Princess would have a hard time keeping them coming back from contract to contract.

 

I wish Princess and the other cruise lines with automatic gratuities would make it more difficult for people to remove them. We were lucky, though, to have prepaid gratuities included on our last cruise and on our upcoming cruise. Since it's 15 days long, that's a perk worth over $400.

[pris993]

threads like this make me think some pay too much attention to what other do or don't do in life. Just live your life, do what you thiink is best... do believe all works well in the end.

[RDC1]

And your point is???? Do you want us to all chime in and say how awful she was? I think most people who post here would agree that the serving staff more than earns their tips. How tips are divided and the great secrecy that Princess keeps on this matter is another issue. Other lines are much more open about this' date=' or they allow their crew to be when asked.

 

Princess allows guests to cancel the standard, automatic tips. That's how they keep it as a tip and not some sort of a service charge that they might be taxed on.

 

No, I don't agree with her decision. On the other hand, it is her right to make that decision[/quote']

 

Keep in mind that as far as Princess itself is concerned their taxes are the same either way. Under the current system the money does not go through their financials, if they did make it a service charge and they kept the practice of fully distributing it, then it would lead to an increase to revenue, but there would be an equivalent increase in expenses, so income and taxes would remain the same. The group that would be negatively impacted would be the crew (depending upon their country of residence and how they tax tips vs wages under their income and retirement systems). Such a change would negatively impact Princesses reported net margin percentage, but profit would remain the same.

[RDC1]

My question is do the employees ever see the tips or are they just added to profit.

 

 

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The fact that they are removable is a major indicator that all the money goes to employees. The reason why is even though the cruise lines are not US companies and in general do not follow US labor law, they are listed on the US stock exchange and as a result do have to follow US accounting standards. Under those standards tips are considered to be tips and not wages if certain rules are met. These include that they must be optional (thus removable) and they must be fully distributed to the employees. In such cases they are handled outside of the companies financials (neither revenue or expense) and the payments are considered to be tips to the employees subject to however tips are treated in their home countries tax/retirement systems.

 

If they were not fully distributed then they would have to be treated as revenue by the cruise line (and reported as such in the SEC filings) and payments to the crew would be considered to be wages not tips and the payments would be tracked as an expense to the cruise line.

 

If they were not fully distributed then the cruise line would really not have a major reason to keep them optional.

[moki'smommy]

The question though is "distributed to whom?" I guess that on some level that it not our business as passengers, but most of us would like to know that the person who took care of us is being treated fairly.

[RDC1]

The question though is "distributed to whom?" I guess that on some level that it not our business as passengers' date=' but most of us would like to know that the person who took care of us is being treated fairly.[/quote']

 

Distributed to the employees. The distribution system 1. enables employees that deliver services and but are not either the steward or MDR employees to get rewarded as well 2. reduces problems with ship assignments by making sure that employees are not penalized while assigned to ships with bad routes (high percentage of non-tipping customers/originating in countries that do not have a culture of tipping, as an example).

 

A friend of mine ( who used to work in Princess HR prior to retirement) said that they used to have a lot of issues with ship assignments, prior to the putting the distribution system in place, because some routes were notorious for poor tip income. He indicated that the system which does move a percentage between ships to balance out such issues has resulted in far fewer assignment complaints (at least up until he left the industry a few years ago).

 

So I guess another way to look at it, is while the person that directly faces you today, might not get every penny, he also does not get hurt in the future by an assignment to a ship doing a routes with a much lower tip average due to the demographics of the passengers. Or a waiter getting penalized by an assignment with fewer guests or more time in the buffet area.

[NSWP]

At the end of the day the 'Automatic Gratuity' is a wage subsidy. Princess don't want to pay the service crew wages totally out of their coffers, it is 'user pay - us.':evilsmile:

[RDC1]

At the end of the day the 'Automatic Gratuity' is a wage subsidy. Princess don't want to pay the service crew wages totally out of their coffers, it is 'user pay - us.':evilsmile:

 

Either way the passengers will pay. You should be happy to take cruises on the Australian based ships where it is included and not optional. The passenger cost is the same (maybe a little lower per passenger since they don't have to make up for those that removal tips) in total, just the option to remove is gone.

 

It is consistent with all of the major main stream cruise lines. as long as one continues to follow this system they all will (marketing advantage). To the passenger it would end up the same to include it in the fare as keeping in out and having the gratuity. The difference is elimination of the option to remove it, and a negative impact on the crew since all of their income would be classified as wages (impact varies depending upon country of residence due to variations of tip tax/retirement system treatment.

[NSWP]

Either way the passengers will pay. You should be happy to take cruises on the Australian based ships where it is included and not optional. The passenger cost is the same (maybe a little lower per passenger since they don't have to make up for those that removal tips) in total, just the option to remove is gone.

 

It is consistent with all of the major main stream cruise lines. as long as one continues to follow this system they all will (marketing advantage). To the passenger it would end up the same to include it in the fare as keeping in out and having the gratuity. The difference is elimination of the option to remove it, and a negative impact on the crew since all of their income would be classified as wages (impact varies depending upon country of residence due to variations of tip tax/retirement system treatment.

 

We have done cruises on the Australian based ships, but once you have done NZ, Australia Circumnavigation and the Pacific Islands a couple of times, it all becomes boring, we like to cruise further afield these days.:halo: Albeit a lot more money forked out to get there.

[Stevanb]

its a wonder princess haven't included the gratuities in the fare like the aussie & kiwis and then no one can take them off

 

 

You are correct is used to be that way on Holland then they stopped it to make fares look lower . When we travel on land in Europe the tip is on the bill

[bobby3334]

The reason I asked to whom was at a recent CC M&M a senior officer was asked this question and he gave an ambiguous answer. He said that the tipping was kept so that Princess could show lower cruise prices and thus be more competitive. He didn’t answer the question to whom they go

 

 

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[voljeep]

The reason I asked to whom was at a recent CC M&M a senior officer was asked this question and he gave an ambiguous answer. He said that the tipping was kept so that Princess could show lower cruise prices and thus be more competitive. He didn’t answer the question to whom they go

 

 

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what would you think if some of you automatic gratuities was going to fund the senior officers retirement???

 

maybe that was the reason for the non-answer...:(