Power strip heads up

[NavyCruiser]

Ain't technology great in medieval year 2018?

 

On a $1 Billion cruise ship, they can't install equipment to handle surge suppressors?

 

Just like dangerous cell phone signals that'll cause airplanes to crash...

[TravisP]

If your curious as to why they're not allowed, and perhaps why people get upset about others using them you can read this US Coast Guard Marine Safety Alert.

 

Thanks for the link. I had always wondered the reason for it.

[MrsPhoenix91]

According to this thread, and the other one linked in it, RCI is not allowing any power strips or extension cords:

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2647531

 

While the Belkin Mini does tend to "get through" security due to its shape, it is surge protected, and is the real reason that cruise lines have cracked down on power strips. Apparently, a "pure" USB multi-port charger (no 120v outlets) are allowed.

 

 

chengkp75: Would this be allowable?

https://www.amazon.com/Cruise-Power-Strip-USB-Outlets/dp/B07BHVKPC3/ref=asc_df_B07BHVKPC3/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241973970700&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=671860495008338607&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9015123&hvtargid=pla-431025274938&psc=1

[sft429]

chengkp75: Would this be allowable?

https://www.amazon.com/Cruise-Power-Strip-USB-Outlets/dp/B07BHVKPC3/ref=asc_df_B07BHVKPC3/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241973970700&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=671860495008338607&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9015123&hvtargid=pla-431025274938&psc=1

 

On your link check out the second question. The picture shows that it is surge protected but they swear it isn't.

[pcur]

chengkp75: Would this be allowable?

https://www.amazon.com/Cruise-Power-Strip-USB-Outlets/dp/B07BHVKPC3/ref=asc_df_B07BHVKPC3/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241973970700&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=671860495008338607&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9015123&hvtargid=pla-431025274938&psc=1

 

 

We taken an almost identical one on our last several cruises, the last one being March 2018, and never had it confiscated. However, this doesn't help with a cpap machine (as advertised) because the nightstands next to the beds on cruise ships are too far away from the outlet, and you have to use an extension cord/power strip to connect the cpap.

 

I did buy one like stumpmr posted above, and we will pack it with the cpap.

[chengkp75]

Ain't technology great in medieval year 2018?

 

On a $1 Billion cruise ship, they can't install equipment to handle surge suppressors?

 

Just like dangerous cell phone signals that'll cause airplanes to crash...

 

See my answer to your similar post on another thread about surge protectors, regarding their safety and the relative safety compared to cell phone use on airplanes.

 

Why would the ship install equipment to handle surge protectors when the design of the ship and its wiring make them completely unnecessary. None of the ship's electronics, and these are valued at far more than the composite of all the passengers' electronics together, are protected by surge protectors, because they are not necessary.

[chengkp75]

chengkp75: Would this be allowable?

https://www.amazon.com/Cruise-Power-Strip-USB-Outlets/dp/B07BHVKPC3/ref=asc_df_B07BHVKPC3/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241973970700&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=671860495008338607&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9015123&hvtargid=pla-431025274938&psc=1

 

Funny you should ask about this. I checked into it for another surge protector thread, and despite the fact that the ad copy says it isn't surge protected, if you look at the picture with the writing on the back of the unit, and enlarge it, it shows the unit has a VPR (voltage protection rating) of 800 volts, which means it is a surge protector. The poster who asked about this on that thread contacted the "manufacturer" (cruise on), who stated that the picture was incorrect, and would be changed. That was about a week ago. I would have my doubts about this unit, until the "manufacturer" (I use quotes, because I don't believe they make it, just market it) shows actual proof that the unit is not surge protected (I would want to see the insides of the unit, many other companies show this circuitry). I have complained to Amazon about this device.

[NavyCruiser]

 

Why would the ship install equipment to handle surge protectors when the design of the ship and its wiring make them completely unnecessary. None of the ship's electronics, and these are valued at far more than the composite of all the passengers' electronics together, are protected by surge protectors, because they are not necessary.

 

OK, so if it's unnecessary, then the cruise ship will absolutely guarantee that if our electronics won't get fried from power surges whenever ship's power go out or when changing from ship's power to shore power?

 

Is the same with airplanes? I've seen people working on long 15 - 16 hr international flights with surge protected power strips powering their multiple laptops, cell phones, etc...

 

But why will having double protection of having power strip w/ surge protection cause a fire hazard onboard ships?

[chengkp75]

OK, so if it's unnecessary, then the cruise ship will absolutely guarantee that if our electronics won't get fried from power surges whenever ship's power go out or when changing from ship's power to shore power?

 

Is the same with airplanes? I've seen people working on long 15 - 16 hr international flights with surge protected power strips powering their multiple laptops, cell phones, etc...

 

But why will having double protection of having power strip w/ surge protection cause a fire hazard onboard ships?

 

As I've stated before on many power strip threads, you get voltage surges on land from two sources; lightning and blown pole tranformers. Lightning can, of course, send tens of thousands of volts through your home wiring, because the neutral (white) wire is connected to ground at the breaker box, so it conducts the lightning just as well as the ground wire, or lightning rods if you have them (I do, on my 200 year old house). A blown pole transformer, which is a single winding auto-transformer, can send the 10,000 volts from the pole voltage direct to your house.

 

Now, what is different on a ship? Well, the wiring is "delta" connected, not "wye" connected, and the ground wire is not connected to the white wire, so there is no "neutral", and any voltage going to ground will not be able to enter the power wiring, since there is no connection. I've been on several ships actually struck by lightning, and with no surge protectors what so ever, I've never had any electronics blown in 43 years at sea. The lightning goes directly through the hull to the sea as ground.

 

Similarly, your home power goes from 10,000 volts on the pole to 220 volts coming into your house via a single winding transformer, so there is a direct wired connection between the 10,000 volts and your house wiring. Ships don't use auto-transformers when stepping down power, they use transformers that have primary and secondary windings, so the power is transferred strictly by electromagnetic force, no direct connection. Also, the ship generates 10,000 volts for propulsion and AC, it is then stepped down to 480 volts via a dual winding transformer, and then from 480 to 220 volts via a different transformer, and then from 220 to 110 volts via another different transformer. So, to see high voltage at your cabin outlet, you would have to have 3 separate transformers fail at the same time.

 

Now, why are surge protectors a fire hazard? Because they are designed to see voltage in one direction, i.e. higher voltage in hot (black) and neutral (white) than in ground. Surge protectors use a semi-conductor called an MOV, placed between the hot and ground and the neutral and ground. These MOV's offer almost infinite resistance to current until they reach their "clamping" or "pass through" voltage (600-800 volts for cheap surge protectors, 300-400 for expensive ones), at which time they "switch on" and offer zero resistance to current, so the excess voltage flows in the path of least resistance and goes to ground, rather than your electronics. The MOV's are not designed to experience a higher voltage in the ground connection than in the hot/neutral wires. On ships, with the "floating ground" (the ground is not connected to either black or white), if something goes to ground anywhere on the ship (say for example, a deck light (220v) cracks and fills with water, causing a 220v ground), this higher voltage in the ground wire (which your electronics don't see, unless their insulation has failed), causes "reverse voltage on the MOV's, and these start to break down, and can go into a condition known as "thermal runaway", where even at low current flow (so a breaker doesn't trip), the MOV heats up rapidly, and can start a fire in the plastic surge protector.

 

As for guaranteeing your electronics, essentially yes, they will, because it won't happen. Because of the design of ship's switchboards, when power goes out completely, everything trips and must be manually reset once power is restored. This is not like a power grid ashore, where they either manually or automatically reconnect a huge power source to hundreds of miles of dead wiring all at once. Even connecting to shore power, that is 10,000 volts, and will still have to go through 3 transformers before getting to your electronics.

 

Do you really think that the cruise line is so stupid to not protect valuable and critical electronics (navigation, communication, engine room automation) with surge protectors if it was needed? Do you think the cruise line's insurance coverage, underwritten by the class society's rules for shipbuilding, would allow this expensive and critical equipment to be unprotected? Do you think the IMO, and the USCG is our representative to that body, would allow equipment vital to the safety of passengers (again, navigation, communication, emergency signals) to be unprotected if it was needed?

 

As for airplanes, I don't believe it is the same, though I haven't checked the voltage between neutral and ground. The reason I believe airplanes and ships are different is that planes are surrounded by air, a relatively poor conductor of electricity, while ships are surrounded by sea water which is a very good conductor of electricity. If a ground fault happens on an airplane, most everything there is aluminum, so current flowing in the body of the aircraft does not cause corrosion. A ship, however, has many different metals attached to the hull, zinc, bronze, copper, aluminum, and steel. Two dissimilar metals exposed to voltage when in the presence of an electrolyte (sea water) will start a "battery effect", and the less noble metal (usually steel) will start to corrode from electrolysis.

 

Sorry, could have cut and pasted from the thousands of posts I do about surge protectors, but too lazy to look for them. Guess your hitch in the Gray Funnel Line wasn't in engineering?:D

[Merion_Mom]

 

guess your hitch in the gray funnel line wasn't in engineering?:d

 

<3 <3 <3

[FPP777]

I will never understand why people try to bring stuff that is on the banned list!

 

I think most people are not aware of the banned list. Not everyone is on CC and not everyone reads all the paperwork.

[NavyCruiser]

Thanks, Chief Engineer, for the detailed explanation. Didn't understand most of it, but feel much better about ship's electrical system.

Now if they only make the cruise ship itself unsinkable, just like the lifeboats...

 

FYI, highly recommend that ya'll don't ever book on the Gray Funnel Line ships! Extremely bad food, uncomfortable beds, horrible port calls to the other Gulf...

[DrChip47]

Yes, at disembarkation there will be a table (tables?) full of confiscated items to be picked up.

Great thanks, I don't mind what ever rules they set its for ours and everyone else safety. As long as we get the bits in question back its all good to me. And for who ever said "You should not bring on anything such at that". We travel extensively and for long periods so having to purchase new items for every trip is ridicules. We like to abide by the rules as long as they are clear and precis, which they are on HAL ships. We are all good then:D:D:D:D

[chengkp75]

Thanks, Chief Engineer, for the detailed explanation. Didn't understand most of it, but feel much better about ship's electrical system.

Now if they only make the cruise ship itself unsinkable, just like the lifeboats...

 

FYI, highly recommend that ya'll don't ever book on the Gray Funnel Line ships! Extremely bad food, uncomfortable beds, horrible port calls to the other Gulf...

 

Did some Reserve time right after the Academy for a few years, but it wasn't a good fit, as I always found myself getting chewed out for doing the work myself. Merchant ships are better, but the ports that tankers go to are not the greatest.

[AlanF65]

Should be allowed, but you never know with RC.

 

Should this one be allowed on the ship?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LZERKKX/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Thanks

Alan

[chengkp75]

Should this one be allowed on the ship?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LZERKKX/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Thanks

Alan

 

Again, not trusting Amazon ad copy, I checked at NTON and it doesn't appear to have surge protection, but it seems that RCI does not allow anything that appears to be a power strip (i.e. anything with a cord and multiple power outlets). Personally, I would stick with a "pure" USB multi-charger (no power outlets, just USB), and a multi-plug splitter (rubber type thing that has one plug and 3 outlets in a block).