Has NCL given any reimbursement for the delay due to crew member jumping overboard?

[ElaineKeagy]

There have been many dumb post on this website over the years....but...comparing a ship getting back to port late, to the Concordia WHERE 32 PEOPLE DIED is about the most asinine thing I have ever seen on here. :rolleyes:

 

 

 

[emoji106]

 

 

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[Oedipa_maas]

The original question on this thread was whether Norwegian has given any compensation for the delay, not whether they should. I'm hoping someone who was on the Getaway will be able to answer this.

 

In addition, insurance keeps being mentioned, so I'm also wondering whether anyone on the Getaway has had their insurance confirm they will or will not reimburse for this situation. (As was alluded to earlier in this thread, insurance can be very specific about what it covers.)

 

As a side note, I'll mention that people on the Getaway at the time didn't "just" have a 6 hour delay; they also had a last day that was filled with uncertainty and likely a somber mood. I doubt many passengers really enjoyed their last day on the ship under the circumstances.

[PATRLR]

There have been many dumb post on this website over the years....but...comparing a ship getting back to port late, to the Concordia WHERE 32 PEOPLE DIED is about the most asinine thing I have ever seen on here. :rolleyes:

 

[emoji106]

If you two are going to insult me, you should at least read and comprehend the post. If you think my post was simply a comparison of the two events, you might want to consider taking a reading comprehension course before throwing around more insults.

[PATRLR]

When I made the comparison between delays and physical harm I WAS referring to responsibility. Again, I don't think NCL is responsible for delays in arrival when it is stated during booking that arrival times are not guaranteed.

guarantee and responsibility are two very different things.

[PATRLR]

Why then, if I say or do something wrong, am I fired, but not my boss ?

If you work for me, and one day decide to punch a customer, how am I responsible ? I was away on a cruise. I left you in charge to run the store.

I didn't say that you weren't responsible for your actions - of course you are and that may mean you get fired. But regardless of the action a boss may take against his employee, the boss is still responsible for the actions of the employee while at work.

 

My guess is you don't own a business with employees. If you do, you might want to consult your attorney on this point before you get sued for something one of your employees does while working for you while you are on your next NCL cruise.

[2naBill]

You agree to the terms and conditions when signing up for the cruise.

 

Itinerary Changes

 

In the event of strikes, lockouts, stoppages of labor, riots, weather conditions, mechanical difficulties or any other reason whatsoever, Norwegian Cruise Line has the right to cancel, advance, postpone or substitute any scheduled sailing or itinerary without prior notice. Norwegian Cruise Line shall not be responsible for failure to adhere to published arrival and departure times for any of its ports of call

 

 

 

living the CruiseLife

[AshleyJax]

guarantee and responsibility are two very different things.

 

Not according to the terms you agreed upon with booking the cruise.......NCL does not guarantee a specific arrival time and thus is not responsible for issues experienced by the cruiser due to delays. Maybe you should read the terms and conditions regarding schedule changes.

 

 

https://www.ncl.com/in/en/about/additional-terms-conditions-asia#itinerarychange

[RD29P5]

So how about any other ship that may have been involved in the search as required by international maritime law? Does NCL owe them some type of compensation too? What if it had been a passenger? Comparing this to a ship running aground due to negligence isn't really a fair comparison. Is the next step going to be requiring a psych evaluation before anyone get's on board, and several during the cruise to prevent someone from trying to take their own life due to stress or depression issues?

[Seminole1975]

I am of the opinion that NCL does not owe anyone any compensation based on their terms and conditions. You agree to them before you get on the ship. Numerous things can cause a ship to be late. I think it was nice that they gave passengers who were embarking a $30 credit.

 

I also have a hard time thinking that NCL is responsible for this particular crewman's behavior. He tried to hurt himself. Is NCL and are employers in general responsible for all employees mental health? Now if he had tried to hurt a passenger, that would have been another story. In this case, NCL was following Maritime Law, they had to go look for him.

 

But, lets say Passenger A had travel insurance. They file claims for flight change fees or a hotel room if they had to stay an extra night. The travel insurance pays the claims. Done.

 

Lets say Passenger B did not have travel insurance. They whine, complain, demand and threaten to sue. NCL compensates them. How is that fair to passenger A who took responsibility for their own trip?

 

I also agree that if you cannot afford travel insurance, perhaps you should not travel. I am a worry wort and I think about everything that can go wrong and try to minimize any risks when traveling. On our next cruise for example, our departing flight does not leave Miami until 4 pm. But something can always go wrong. (I think in this particular case, I would have missed even that flight) I always get travel insurance.

 

I also am not in fear of being fired or missing a days wages if I miss an extra day for something like this. If I was in that position, I would stay closer to home rather than go traipsing around the world.

 

It will be interesting to see how this develops. I bet there will be passengers wanting to get compensation and maybe even threatening to sue, although I do not see how they were harmed in any way.

 

Hope for the best and prepare for the worst is my motto.

Edited July 4, 2018 by Seminole1975

[njkate]

I am of the opinion that NCL does not owe anyone any compensation based on their terms and conditions. You agree to them before you get on the ship. Numerous things can cause a ship to be late. I think it was nice that they gave passengers who were embarking a $30 credit.

 

I also have a hard time thinking that NCL is responsible for this particular crewman's behavior. He tried to hurt himself. Is NCL and are employers in general responsible for all employees mental health? Now if he had tried to hurt a passenger, that would have been another story. In this case, NCL was following Maritime Law, they had to go look for him.

 

But, lets say Passenger A had travel insurance. They file claims for flight change fees or a hotel room if they had to stay an extra night. The travel insurance pays the claims. Done.

 

Lets say Passenger B did not have travel insurance. They whine, complain, demand and threaten to sue. NCL compensates them. How is that fair to passenger A who took responsibility for their own trip?

 

I also agree that if you cannot afford travel insurance, perhaps you should not travel. I am a worry wort and I think about everything that can go wrong and try to minimize any risks when traveling. On our next cruise for example, our departing flight does not leave Miami until 4 pm. But something can always go wrong. (I think in this particular case, I would have missed even that flight) I always get travel insurance.

 

I also am not in fear of being fired or missing a days wages if I miss an extra day for something like this. If I was in that position, I would stay closer to home rather than go traipsing around the world.

 

Hope for the best and prepare for the worst is my motto.

Well said and I agree 100%

[DMH15]

Either a person chooses to take insurance, either offered by the cruise line or independently, with regard to that policy's limitations.

 

Or.

 

They decline insurance and basically self-insure... meaning they roll the dice and save money upfront with the chance of unexpected costs down the road.

 

The cruise line's contract is written to give them a great deal of leeway.

 

Stuff happens. I recall the time our round trip cruise out of Long Beach. We woke up on disembarkation day to find ourselves in San Pedro due to gangway mechanical issues in LB. You should have seen people scramble. Yes, the cruise line shuttled pax to LB for free but those with early flights were SOL. Luckily a friend lived 6 blocks from the SP port and picked us up and we spent a lovely day together. We flew home the following day.

 

This was a last minute 3 night cruise... we opted no insurance. But we did insure our transatlantic to greece and our south american cruises.

 

 

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[Level six]

I asked this on another thread, but want to know.

First, I always get trip insurance, don't flame me.

But, do you even think trip insurance will pay. Trip delay usually has be greater than 6 hours, sometimes 12. They were only a few hours late.

I am so curious to see if they will pay. I am saying they won't pay.

[pcakes122]

I asked this on another thread, but want to know.

First, I always get trip insurance, don't flame me.

But, do you even think trip insurance will pay. Trip delay usually has be greater than 6 hours, sometimes 12. They were only a few hours late.

I am so curious to see if they will pay. I am saying they won't pay.

I'm thinking trip insurance sets parameters like that because a delays of 6-12 hours or more are SIGNIFICANT. Not like the minor delay that happened on the Getaway.

 

As a business person, I can clearly see why NCL (or any business) hesitates to offer compensation even for more serious issues. Once they have set a precedent, it sets up a culture of entitlement for any little blip. I had to laugh at the poster above who said that in addition to the delay, NCL is responsible for passengers having a "bad day" and somber mood after the incident. What is this world coming to? :eek:

 

People need to get a grip and act like responsible adults. Spend the money and buy insurance to protect you financially from significant losses as well as PLAN AHEAD to insure you are not cutting it close in terms of work, etc. There is no proof at all that NCL was negligent in this case or owes anybody ANYTHING. If it later comes out that this employee went to his supervisor and declared in advance his intention to jump overboard - and the supervisor took NO action - then maybe you (and his family) have a case. Even if it was known that he was suffering from or being treated for depression, that doesn't make it NCL's fault. (And for those who think that alone should make NCL liable - what would your position be if you next heard that NCL decided to fire all employees diagnosed with depressive disorders?)

 

Again, from a business standpoint, I believe NCL made a mistake even offering the $30 for a late departure to folks on the next cruise. Next delayed departure (for whatever reason) and I guarantee there will be a sea of hands out waiting for their compensation!

[njkate]

I asked this on another thread, but want to know.

First, I always get trip insurance, don't flame me.

But, do you even think trip insurance will pay. Trip delay usually has be greater than 6 hours, sometimes 12. They were only a few hours late.

I am so curious to see if they will pay. I am saying they won't pay.

From the insurance docs on NCL

 

The Company will reimburse You for Covered Expenses, up to the Maximum Benefit shown on the Confirmation ofCoverage, if You are delayed, while coverage is in effect, en route to or from the Trip for three (3) or more hours due to adefined Hazard.Covered Expenses:(a) Any prepaid, unused, non-refundable land and water accommodations;(b) Any Additional Expenses incurred;© An Economy Fare from the point where the You ended Your Covered Trip to a destination where You can catch up tothe Covered Trip; or(d) A one-way Economy Fare to return You to Your originally scheduled return destination.

 

In addition many credit cards have automatic insurance if credit card was used to pay for trip, what the limitations are I couldn't say

[Seminole1975]

I'm thinking trip insurance sets parameters like that because a delays of 6-12 hours or more are SIGNIFICANT. Not like the minor delay that happened on the Getaway.

 

As a business person, I can clearly see why NCL (or any business) hesitates to offer compensation even for more serious issues. Once they have set a precedent, it sets up a culture of entitlement for any little blip. I had to laugh at the poster above who said that in addition to the delay, NCL is responsible for passengers having a "bad day" and somber mood after the incident. What is this world coming to? :eek:

 

People need to get a grip and act like responsible adults. Spend the money and buy insurance to protect you financially from significant losses as well as PLAN AHEAD to insure you are not cutting it close in terms of work, etc. There is no proof at all that NCL was negligent in this case or owes anybody ANYTHING. If it later comes out that this employee went to his supervisor and declared in advance his intention to jump overboard - and the supervisor took NO action - then maybe you (and his family) have a case. Even if it was known that he was suffering from or being treated for depression, that doesn't make it NCL's fault. (And for those who think that alone should make NCL liable - what would your position be if you next heard that NCL decided to fire all employees diagnosed with depressive disorders?)

 

Again, from a business standpoint, I believe NCL made a mistake even offering the $30 for a late departure to folks on the next cruise. Next delayed departure (for whatever reason) and I guarantee there will be a sea of hands out waiting for their compensation!

 

Well said! I completely agree. Great points. I also had to wonder about people being in a "somber mood". I would venture to guess that many people were frustrated and angry that their travel plans were going to be messed up. I would have hated to be at the guest services desk!

 

I looked at my travel insurance for my upcoming cruise in Oct. It is an AIG Silver policy. It does cover trip delays, BUT the trip has to be delayed 12 hours and prevent the insured from reaching the intended destination.

 

I always get to the destination the day ahead of the cruise, but I wonder if this also covers when you are going home. If not, all I would be out in that case would be flight change fees and maybe a hotel room if I have to stay an extra night. I am going to call the insurance company to clarify. They will pay up to $500 per insured/$100 pay out per day..And another thought. Do the airlines ever waive the flight change fee in this situation?

Edited July 4, 2018 by Seminole1975

[AmazedByCruising]

I am of the opinion that NCL does not owe anyone any compensation based on their terms and conditions. You agree to them before you get on the ship. Numerous things can cause a ship to be late. I think it was nice that they gave passengers who were embarking a $30 credit.

 

I also have a hard time thinking that NCL is responsible for this particular crewman's behavior. He tried to hurt himself. Is NCL and are employers in general responsible for all employees mental health? .

 

I'm not in the cruise line business, I sell software. We have numerous reasons why our product could fail, too, including employees with mental health problems. It is always our problem, which we should get an insurance for or be big enough to absorb the risk ourselves, and of course try our utmost to prevent it.

[Toofarfromthesea]

Of course it's not the same. But what they do have in common is an employee's action impacted the guest experience.

 

Agreed 100%. That is part of my point, an NCL employee caused the problem.

 

One more point: I am not saying the impact to the Getaway guests was the same as the Concordia guests. The impact (damages) isn't the issue I am discussing. It's whether NCL has any responsibility. Once the level of responsibility is determined, then you look at damages which I agree are (or should be) minimal.

 

Under a legal doctrine sometimes referred to as "respondeat superior" (Latin for "Let the superior answer"), an employer is legally responsible for the actions of its employees. However, this rule applies only if the employee is acting within the course and scope of employment.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/employer-liability-employees-bad-acts-29638.html

 

I doubt that a court would find that jumping overboard is acting within the course and scope of the employees employment.

[barb65]

This is why I always buy trip insurance. You just never know what's going to happen on a cruise.

[Seminole1975]

I'm not in the cruise line business, I sell software. We have numerous reasons why our product could fail, too, including employees with mental health problems. It is always our problem, which we should get an insurance for or be big enough to absorb the risk ourselves, and of course try our utmost to prevent it.

 

Well I am in the mental health business and it sounds like you look at your employees as "products". People with mental illness are much more complicated than computers or software. Most computer people I know know nothing about mental illness.

 

So your company takes responsibility for your employees with mental health issues and tries to prevent them? How does that compute?

Edited July 4, 2018 by Seminole1975

[AmazedByCruising]

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/employer-liability-employees-bad-acts-29638.html

 

I doubt that a court would find that jumping overboard is acting within the course and scope of the employees employment.

 

I see examples where an employee hurts someone directly.

 

IANAL, but I feel this is more comparable to an (invented) case where an angry employee sets the hotel on fire (which is not his job), and the hotel still bills the guest because the contract said there is no reason not to bill whatsoever.

[Seminole1975]

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/employer-liability-employees-bad-acts-29638.html

 

I doubt that a court would find that jumping overboard is acting within the course and scope of the employees employment.

 

I agree and I fail to see how anyone was hurt by this crewman's actions. They were inconvenienced perhaps or out some money, but not hurt or injured in anyway that I can see. They got some extra time on a cruise ship for goodness sakes.

Edited July 4, 2018 by Seminole1975

[pcakes122]

I'm not in the cruise line business, I sell software. We have numerous reasons why our product could fail, too, including employees with mental health problems. It is always our problem, which we should get an insurance for or be big enough to absorb the risk ourselves, and of course try our utmost to prevent it.

NCL went one better than insuring themselves. They hired lawyers that wrote an extensive and detailed Terms of Service contract between themselves and their Guests. Problem is, most passengers don't read it before embarking. It clearly lays out potential risks of sea travel and limits and/or absolves NCL liability in just about any case you can imagine.

 

Any "goodwill" compensation NCL has offered in this situation or other recent scenarios has been strictly for public relations purposes. They were not required by law to do so. Ask the folks who are still trying to get additional compensation from the Breakaway weather issue (won't happen I assure you.)

 

If anything, this should be a lesson to those who were delayed getting home - and to all of us - to read the Terms and Conditions of whatever contract you are signing. But don't blame NCL because you are too cheap to buy insurance, too disorganized to plan or to lazy to read the contract.

[pcakes122]

For reference:

 

Excerpted from NCL Guest Ticket Contract:

 

5. Limitations and Disclaimers of Liability a) The Carrier and the Guest hereby agree there is no warranty, whether express or implied, as to the fitness, seaworthiness, or condition of the vessel or any person on board.

 

© Itinerary Deviation: The Guest agrees that the Carrier has the sole discretion and liberty to direct the movements of the vessel, including the rights to: proceed without pilots and tow, and assist other vessels in all situations; deviate from the purchased voyage or the normal course for any purpose, including,without limitation, in the interest of Guests or of the vessel, or to save life or property; put in at any unscheduled or unadvertised port; cancel any scheduled call at any port for any reason and at any time before, during or after sailing of the vessel; omit, advance or delay landing at any scheduled or advertised port; return to port of embarkation or to any port previously visited if the Carrier deems it prudent to do so;substitute another vessel or port(s) of call without prior notice and without incurring any liability to the Guest on account thereof for any loss, damage or delay whatsoever, whether consequential or otherwise.

[notalandlover]

I agree and I fail to see how anyone was hurt by this crewman's actions. They were inconvenienced perhaps or out some money, but not hurt or injured in anyway that I can see. They got some extra time on a cruise ship for goodness sakes.

Maybe their feelings were hurt. :loudcry::loudcry:

[GeezerCouple]

For reference:

 

Excerpted from NCL Guest Ticket Contract:

 

5. Limitations and Disclaimers of Liability a) The Carrier and the Guest hereby agree there is no warranty, whether express or implied, as to the fitness, seaworthiness, or condition of the vessel or any person on board.

 

© Itinerary Deviation: The Guest agrees that the Carrier has the sole discretion and liberty to direct the movements of the vessel, including the rights to: proceed without pilots and tow, and assist other vessels in all situations; deviate from the purchased voyage or the normal course for any purpose, including,without limitation, in the interest of Guests or of the vessel, or to save life or property; put in at any unscheduled or unadvertised port; cancel any scheduled call at any port for any reason and at any time before, during or after sailing of the vessel; omit, advance or delay landing at any scheduled or advertised port; return to port of embarkation or to any port previously visited if the Carrier deems it prudent to do so;substitute another vessel or port(s) of call without prior notice and without incurring any liability to the Guest on account thereof for any loss, damage or delay whatsoever, whether consequential or otherwise.

 

Okay, I get it about the delays or change in routing, etc.

 

But "no warranty, whether express or implied, as to the fitness,

seaworthiness, or condition of the vessel or any person on board." ??

 

They are able to claim that the ship "may NOT be seaworthy" and that's ... OK?

 

Or that the Captain, for example, might not be "fit" for his job?

 

Really??

 

:eek: :eek:

 

*Obviously* we didn't think this bit through!!

 

GC