Warning: NCL Shareholder benefit change

[jaja]

4 hours ago, peg013 said:

 

I don't worry about the split when I'm cruising with my husband, but when I was traveling with a friend I requested it all be put on my account since she was not a shareholder. They did it and sent me a new amenity confirmation. You could probably request it on the original request form too.

Thanks...but as I said..not really a big deal..but since I do the buying (LOL)...I think I will ask at check in that they just combine/link everything...

[eiloo]

Original request for shareholder benefit on August 2 with a follow up sent on August 6.  Received the OBC on August 14. 

[lkjacobs]

I just received one-half of the $250 benefit as a solo on a 16-day cruise. For a while, I thought there was one bad apple in the shareholder benefit department who got jollies by shafting solos, but I'm beginning to think that all of them are now under orders to chop our benefits if we don't pay a double fare. In this case, I paid 150% (that's 75% of the full fare for two people) yet they only credited me with 50% of the benefit. Really unfair and discriminatory.

 

Note that nowhere in NCL (actually, NCLH) documents do they state what the benefit percentage will be if the fare is less than 200%, only that that the full benefit will accrue if 200% is paid. I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that ambiguity in a unilateral contract favors the party that did not compose and issue that contract. I've written to Shareholder Services with these points, and am awaiting their reply.

 

If this department consistently chops the solo benefits in half, is there any lawyer out there who's also a victim of this discrimination and can pursue a remedy on our behalf with NCLH? I'm really getting sick and tired of their campaign to cut every corner they can, but this may be the first example where it isn't even legal.

[fshagan]

9 hours ago, lkjacobs said:

Note that nowhere in NCL (actually, NCLH) documents do they state what the benefit percentage will be if the fare is less than 200%, only that that the full benefit will accrue if 200% is paid. I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that ambiguity in a unilateral contract favors the party that did not compose and issue that contract. I've written to Shareholder Services with these points, and am awaiting their reply.

 

Here's some language from the FAQ document I found at http://www.nclhltdinvestor.com/  It isn't the contract, but it is part of their documentation. It's also in the micro-print on the offer brochure they have at that site (the links are in the footer)

 

Credit is applied on a per stateroom basis; double occupancy. Single guests paying 200% of applicable fare shall receive full value of certificate.

 

I'm surprised you got any benefit from that sentence. In fact, I thought that was how it worked. You either paid 200% of the fare or didn't get any credit.

[lkjacobs]

5 hours ago, fshagan said:

 

Here's some language from the FAQ document I found at http://www.nclhltdinvestor.com/  It isn't the contract, but it is part of their documentation. It's also in the micro-print on the offer brochure they have at that site (the links are in the footer)

 

 

 

 

I'm surprised you got any benefit from that sentence. In fact, I thought that was how it worked. You either paid 200% of the fare or didn't get any credit.

That's exactly my point. It states that singles get the full benefit if they pay 200%, but the weasel wording doesn't state what happens if the supplement is zero, 150% or anything else. Historically, they've granted us the full benefit regardless of the supplement level, but now seem to be cutting it in half on a regular basis. There's nothing in the documentation saying that's what will happen. We could get the whole thing, nothing or any percentage in between - totally at the whim of one party. That's not the way contracts work. Whatever internal guidelines NCLH may have established for processing such requests are beyond the contract, irrelevant to it and legally unenforceable (remember that I only have a degree from Judge Judy University).

 

From my experience and talking with countless other solos, I've only heard of two outcomes: full compensation or half. I've never heard of anyone being denied completely unless the submission was so late that it wasn't processed before the end of the cruise, but having nothing to do with being a single.

 

One more note: a high percentage of NCL's best passengers (Platinum Plus and Ambassador) travel solo. By the nature of our Latitudes level, we travel a lot. I'm on a ship about every month (I'm P+). We all own stock. The OBC it generates is a factor in our decisions about what cruises to take and which line to use. Screwing your best customers is not a wise business practice for any company. We not only directly create income for the line, but are (or can be) the best sales force they have, since people constantly ask us who we like and why we like them. A negative feeling toward any operator will spread well beyond the loss or reduction of one person's business. There's not one cruise where the high-level solos don't complain among each other about this very issue. It's become a real focus of our attention and it needs to be solved quickly in a way that is unambiguous and doesn't leave us feeling abused and angry.

[Turtles06]

16 hours ago, lkjacobs said:

I just received one-half of the $250 benefit as a solo on a 16-day cruise. For a while, I thought there was one bad apple in the shareholder benefit department who got jollies by shafting solos, but I'm beginning to think that all of them are now under orders to chop our benefits if we don't pay a double fare. In this case, I paid 150% (that's 75% of the full fare for two people) yet they only credited me with 50% of the benefit. Really unfair and discriminatory.

 

Note that nowhere in NCL (actually, NCLH) documents do they state what the benefit percentage will be if the fare is less than 200%, only that that the full benefit will accrue if 200% is paid. I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that ambiguity in a unilateral contract favors the party that did not compose and issue that contract. I've written to Shareholder Services with these points, and am awaiting their reply.

 

If this department consistently chops the solo benefits in half, is there any lawyer out there who's also a victim of this discrimination and can pursue a remedy on our behalf with NCLH? I'm really getting sick and tired of their campaign to cut every corner they can, but this may be the first example where it isn't even legal.

 

I totally understand why you are disturbed by what NCL is doing, and why it seems so unfair.  But nothing in the documentation precludes it.  To the contrary, while you have focused on the 200% sentence, the sentence that precedes it is also important: "Credit is applied on a per stateroom basis; double occupancy."  (Emphasis added.)  Per this language, NCL could take the position that if a solo does not pay 200% of the fare, she gets no shareholder credit at all. 

 

I really don't think you will get anywhere with NCL trying to argue legalese with them, given the language above.  If you pursue this, I would appeal to fairness and business goodwill. 

 

  

[newmexicoNita]

On 8/16/2019 at 6:23 AM, Turtles06 said:

 

I totally understand why you are disturbed by what NCL is doing, and why it seems so unfair.  But nothing in the documentation precludes it.  To the contrary, while you have focused on the 200% sentence, the sentence that precedes it is also important: "Credit is applied on a per stateroom basis; double occupancy."  (Emphasis added.)  Per this language, NCL could take the position that if a solo does not pay 200% of the fare, she gets no shareholder credit at all. 

 

I really don't think you will get anywhere with NCL trying to argue legalese with them, given the language above.  If you pursue this, I would appeal to fairness and business goodwill. 

 

  

I too found it pretty clear, when something says "based on" it is clear to me what that means. 

[EmeraldCoastCruisers]

On 11/11/2018 at 5:16 PM, cocod08 said:

I received the shareholder benefit on my account and it did not affect my cruise perks. 

Thank goodness I'm reading it doesn't affect the other perks!  I am considering NCL stock (if prices drop) so the beginning of this feed had me second guessing.  Glad I read through some of this!

[newmexicoNita]

13 hours ago, EmeraldCoastCruisers said:

Thank goodness I'm reading it doesn't affect the other perks!  I am considering NCL stock (if prices drop) so the beginning of this feed had me second guessing.  Glad I read through some of this!

It may drop some as we read on the stock report just yesterday, the profits are going to be lower than expected this year due to things like Cuba etc. It has been going up lately. In fact NCL has shown more improvement than the other two major lines, RCI and Carnival. But this could change. Time will tell, but I am assuming from what I read we will see a drop in the next few weeks or so. I do feel it will never hit the low that we paid for it about 5 years ago and our investment broker told us, it could easily hit 80.00 a share in the nest few years. 

[EmeraldCoastCruisers]

19 minutes ago, newmexicoNita said:

It may drop some as we read on the stock report just yesterday, the profits are going to be lower than expected this year due to things like Cuba etc. It has been going up lately. In fact NCL has shown more improvement than the other two major lines, RCI and Carnival. But this could change. Time will tell, but I am assuming from what I read we will see a drop in the next few weeks or so. I do feel it will never hit the low that we paid for it about 5 years ago and our investment broker told us, it could easily hit 80.00 a share in the nest few years. 

It was at a pretty low point 2 days before I decided I definitely wanted to buy some. After that decision and the price I was willing to pay, it kept creeping Up!  Hubby said it’s due to me exiting to buy!  Hope you’re right!  I’m keeping my eyes on it and have a set dollar in my watch list to buy when it hits again. 

[newmexicoNita]

6 hours ago, EmeraldCoastCruisers said:

It was at a pretty low point 2 days before I decided I definitely wanted to buy some. After that decision and the price I was willing to pay, it kept creeping Up!  Hubby said it’s due to me exiting to buy!  Hope you’re right!  I’m keeping my eyes on it and have a set dollar in my watch list to buy when it hits again. 

We paid $31 a share when we bought in 2013 I think it was or maybe 14. It has gone as high as $60 a couple of times. as you know, now sitting at just under $50 a share. With the profit it has made for us and our $100 OBC we can not complain. 

[bearkeley]

First time cruiser on NCL - can someone tell me how long it normally takes to process and how you are notified?  I sent my forms a month ago and have followed up but still no reply other than the auto reply saying they will get back to me in 24 hours.   If this is how they treat shareholders, I’m a bit concerned about the cruise experience?

[KarlChilders]

4 minutes ago, bearkeley said:

First time cruiser on NCL - can someone tell me how long it normally takes to process and how you are notified?  I sent my forms a month ago and have followed up but still no reply other than the auto reply saying they will get back to me in 24 hours.   If this is how they treat shareholders, I’m a bit concerned about the cruise experience?

on the three occasions I have used it, it has been 1-3 days.  I would try resubmitting the form by email.  Keep in mind however that they are buried right now with responding to the hurricane chaos. 

Also check your my NCL and see if the credit has been added.  It could be you missed the notification.

Edited September 3, 2019 by KarlChilders

[Turtles06]

57 minutes ago, bearkeley said:

If this is how they treat shareholders, I’m a bit concerned about the cruise experience?

 

The two are unrelated.  And other folks have reported a backlog on the processing of the shareholder OBC requests. 

[julig22]

2 hours ago, KarlChilders said:

on the three occasions I have used it, it has been 1-3 days.  I would try resubmitting the form by email.  Keep in mind however that they are buried right now with responding to the hurricane chaos. 

Also check your my NCL and see if the credit has been added.  It could be you missed the notification.

Last time it took almost a month - I think I sent it in twice, just in case it had been lost, then sent another email just to remind them.  Sometimes I get an email, sometimes it just shows up in my edocs.  Looks like the code is TG100 (for the $100 benefit anyway).

[newmexicoNita]

16 hours ago, bearkeley said:

First time cruiser on NCL - can someone tell me how long it normally takes to process and how you are notified?  I sent my forms a month ago and have followed up but still no reply other than the auto reply saying they will get back to me in 24 hours.   If this is how they treat shareholders, I’m a bit concerned about the cruise experience?

As I mentioned a few posts back: hubby just gave them a call, the gal he talked to said to re-submit and address to her. He did and within a week we had our credit This was the first time in years we had any problem. I wouldn't be concerned about your experience: this has nothing to do with cruising. 

[lkjacobs]

17 hours ago, Turtles06 said:

 

The two are unrelated.  And other folks have reported a backlog on the processing of the shareholder OBC requests. 

I agree completely. NCL has two distinct personalities: shoreside and shipboard. I believe, more often than not, that gaining a managerial title in the corporate office requires you to have never stepped foot on a cruise ship. The decisions they make and procedures they develop are almost illogical and contrary to the best interests of their customers. Conversely, the crews on NCL ships are fantastic. I sail with them about every month and can count on one hand the ones I don’t like. 

 

My experience is that shareholder services is one of the worst departments of them all. Though apparently understaffed, the process they implement is remarkably simple. Review the submission, assign OBC to the associated reservation, send an email to the passenger with an updated amenities confirmation. Easy peasy. As described in my posts above, there is no consistency in the treatment of solos nor predictability in turnaround time.

 

Common sense dictates that passengers who own stock typically are not those who cruise every five years, but more likely those who book frequently. They own the stock as a gateway to its benefit more than as a pure investment. That corporate management continues to treat those most valuable customers poorly is a reflection of their incompetence and disregard for their most important patrons. 

[Norway97]

We have sailed several times with this benefit and NEVER has it conflicted with any other OBC offers or Free at Sea benefits. Have also found immediate response (improvement) on submission when I copy our PCC on email.

[bearkeley]

Thanks all...I got a call this am confirming they received my refund request and will be processing soon.  Glad to know it isn’t a reflection on their guest services aboard.  Looking forward to a 15 day trip!

[km3045]

On 8/16/2019 at 6:57 AM, lkjacobs said:

That's exactly my point. It states that singles get the full benefit if they pay 200%, but the weasel wording doesn't state what happens if the supplement is zero, 150% or anything else. Historically, they've granted us the full benefit regardless of the supplement level, but now seem to be cutting it in half on a regular basis. There's nothing in the documentation saying that's what will happen. We could get the whole thing, nothing or any percentage in between - totally at the whim of one party. That's not the way contracts work. Whatever internal guidelines NCLH may have established for processing such requests are beyond the contract, irrelevant to it and legally unenforceable (remember that I only have a degree from Judge Judy University).

 

From my experience and talking with countless other solos, I've only heard of two outcomes: full compensation or half. I've never heard of anyone being denied completely unless the submission was so late that it wasn't processed before the end of the cruise, but having nothing to do with being a single.

 

One more note: a high percentage of NCL's best passengers (Platinum Plus and Ambassador) travel solo. By the nature of our Latitudes level, we travel a lot. I'm on a ship about every month (I'm P+). We all own stock. The OBC it generates is a factor in our decisions about what cruises to take and which line to use. Screwing your best customers is not a wise business practice for any company. We not only directly create income for the line, but are (or can be) the best sales force they have, since people constantly ask us who we like and why we like them. A negative feeling toward any operator will spread well beyond the loss or reduction of one person's business. There's not one cruise where the high-level solos don't complain among each other about this very issue. It's become a real focus of our attention and it needs to be solved quickly in a way that is unambiguous and doesn't leave us feeling abused and angry.

lkjacobs - We are on the same Roll Call for Nov and I've been following this thread on CC. I am about to buy the NCLH stock in order to obtain the OBC and was counting on the $250 credit for that cruise.  However, that stock purchase isn't as attractive now, as you believe they arbitrarily assign how much OBC you will receive.  I will probably still buy it, but this is very troublesome.  Also, I'm not sure if I paid 200% or not.  I booked directly with NCL and when I look at the pricing online, I only input 1 traveler and didn't pay attention to the pricing that initially showed for 2 passengers.  I'll look more closely next time!  Maybe we can discuss more when cruising - by then I'll see what they've given me for OBC.

[lkjacobs]

57 minutes ago, km3045 said:

lkjacobs - We are on the same Roll Call for Nov and I've been following this thread on CC. I am about to buy the NCLH stock in order to obtain the OBC and was counting on the $250 credit for that cruise.  However, that stock purchase isn't as attractive now, as you believe they arbitrarily assign how much OBC you will receive.  I will probably still buy it, but this is very troublesome.  Also, I'm not sure if I paid 200% or not.  I booked directly with NCL and when I look at the pricing online, I only input 1 traveler and didn't pay attention to the pricing that initially showed for 2 passengers.  I'll look more closely next time!  Maybe we can discuss more when cruising - by then I'll see what they've given me for OBC.

I sincerely hope that your request doesn’t land on the desk of a solo hater. Of course, I’d be happy to discuss this when we’re aboard. 

 

One interesting facet that I haven’t mentioned. One of the people in the shareholder benefit group told me that there is no facility within their system to automatically allocate half of the OBC, so anyone who does so must take the extra step of requesting and posting gift certificates in the reduced amount to the reservation. In other words, to shaft the solos, they must go out of their way and do more work. You have to wonder what kind of person would do that. 

[bones774]

31 minutes ago, lkjacobs said:

I sincerely hope that your request doesn’t land on the desk of a solo hater. Of course, I’d be happy to discuss this when we’re aboard. 

 

One interesting facet that I haven’t mentioned. One of the people in the shareholder benefit group told me that there is no facility within their system to automatically allocate half of the OBC, so anyone who does so must take the extra step of requesting and posting gift certificates in the reduced amount to the reservation. In other words, to shaft the solos, they must go out of their way and do more work. You have to wonder what kind of person would do that. 

 where is shareholder benefit group?

[lkjacobs]

1 hour ago, bones774 said:

 where is shareholder benefit group?

It’s part of the corporate executive offices. 

[bones774]

32 minutes ago, lkjacobs said:

It’s part of the corporate executive offices. 

i thought it was a part of CC

[Joken35]

The past few cruises we were given a bottle of wine, chocolate cover strawberries and a dinner  in Cagney because we relieve other benefits price value came to about  $75.We are getting the $100 OBC on 3 up coming cruises we have booked while still receiving the 5 perks . So, I am not complaining . Not sure when or why the policy changed but it is to our benefit for a change.