B2B question

[MRRG]

Can one of the experts tell me if Honolulu to Vancouver, followed by Vancouver to Seattle is acceptable and does not violate that Jones Act law?

[Clarea]

Violates the PVSA.

 

Jones Act is for cargo ships.  PVSA is for passengers.

 

Now, if you get on the ship in Sydney instead of Hawaii, no problem.

[sandy toes]

Would it be a violation if you left the ship and reboarded? 

If this is truly a B2B, I do not understand why it would be a violation. 

Isn't a violation when you leave mid cruise? 

Edited December 10, 2018 by sandy toes
to add something

[Biker19]

2 minutes ago, sandy toes said:

If this is truly a B2B, I do not understand why it would be a violation. 

Because RCI is taking you from Hawaii to Seattle.

[sandy toes]

Sorry, I am still missing something. The OP said it was a B2B. 

My understanding and past experience have always been one cruise on a ship followed by a 2nd on the same ship making up the B2B. If the OP is sailing cruise #1 Honolulu to Vancouver, and then cruise #2 followed by Vancouver to Seattle, what is the problem? The cruise line is stopping/ending cruise#1 and then starting cruise#2. OP is just sailing on both. 

The stop/start midpoint could be any various country, couldn't it? 

[MRRG]

Thanks Bob. We are getting on in Honolulu. I thought it might be a problem.

[Biker19]

6 minutes ago, sandy toes said:

 If the OP is sailing cruise #1 Honolulu to Vancouver, and then cruise #2 followed by Vancouver to Seattle, what is the problem?

PVSA is the problem. 

[Clarea]

6 minutes ago, sandy toes said:

Sorry, I am still missing something. The OP said it was a B2B. 

My understanding and past experience have always been one cruise on a ship followed by a 2nd on the same ship making up the B2B. If the OP is sailing cruise #1 Honolulu to Vancouver, and then cruise #2 followed by Vancouver to Seattle, what is the problem? The cruise line is stopping/ending cruise#1 and then starting cruise#2. OP is just sailing on both. 

The stop/start midpoint could be any various country, couldn't it? 

 

It does not matter what the cruise line calls a "cruise".  It only matters where the passenger initially gets on the ship and ultimately gets off the ship.  Getting off the ship for a few hours does not matter.

[Clarea]

2 minutes ago, MRRG said:

Thanks Bob. We are getting on in Honolulu. I thought it might be a problem.

 

Sometimes the cruise line does not catch these bookings, and then people get a big surprise close to sailing day, long past when they can easily make other arrangements.

[Biker19]

3 minutes ago, Host Clarea said:

 

Sometimes the cruise line does not catch these bookings, and then people get a big surprise close to sailing day, long past when they can easily make other arrangements.

or, I would assume, RCI lets them pay the PVSA fine ($778pp) and keep the booking.

Edited December 10, 2018 by Biker19

[sandy toes]

OK that I understand. 

My confusion came from a repositioning cruise that ended in Barbados and a back to back that started there. If that was OK, I had problems understanding this not being OK. 

Maybe it was a then and now kind of thing? 

Edited December 10, 2018 by sandy toes

[Clarea]

2 minutes ago, sandy toes said:

OK that I understand. 

My confusion came from a cruise That ended in Barbados and a back to back that started there. If that was OK, I had problems understanding this not being OK. 

Maybe it was a then and now kind of thing? 

 

The PVSA only comes into play when the starting and ending point of a cruise are US ports.

 

If the start and end ports are the same US port, then they only have to visit any foreign port to be legal.

 

If the start and end ports are different US ports, then they have to visit a distant foreign port to be legal.

 

Again, "cruise" for the purpose of this law has nothing to do with what the cruise line calls a cruise, it only depends on what the passenger is doing.

[1025cruise]

1 hour ago, Biker19 said:

or, I would assume, RCI lets them pay the PVSA fine ($778pp) and keep the booking.

Nope. RCI cannot allow them to do this. If it isn't caught early on, it is usually caught close to the cruise.

[morrowz]

This is my problem in reverse ,We want to do Seattle Vancouver,then Vancouver Honolulu,then Honolulu Sydney .in 2020,but Rccl,won’t confirm if ovation in definitely continuing on to Sydney ,so I said oh well I will fly back to Australia if it doesn’t continue on to Sydney as per 2018 and 2019 .But.  I was informed  ,I can’t leave the ship in Honolulu, .but I think I will risk it and book early and hope they do go on to Sydney 🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️

[Clarea]

24 minutes ago, morrowz said:

This is my problem in reverse ,We want to do Seattle Vancouver,then Vancouver Honolulu,then Honolulu Sydney .in 2020,but Rccl,won’t confirm if ovation in definitely continuing on to Sydney ,so I said oh well I will fly back to Australia if it doesn’t continue on to Sydney as per 2018 and 2019 .But.  I was informed  ,I can’t leave the ship in Honolulu, .but I think I will risk it and book early and hope they do go on to Sydney 🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️

 

They may not allow you to book unless you book the Hawaii to Sydney leg too.

[morrowz]

Apparently i can book the first 2 cruises ,but if they change itinerary from sydney to say “Singapore or Hong Kong “ anywhere else that is a “far away and foreign port “,I would then have to buy that cruise ,or be fined ,this was told to me by the Australian rep for Royal Caribbean.

[Clarea]

3 minutes ago, morrowz said:

Apparently i can book the first 2 cruises ,but if they change itinerary from sydney to say “Singapore or Hong Kong “ anywhere else that is a “far away and foreign port “,I would then have to buy that cruise ,or be fined ,this was told to me by the Australian rep for Royal Caribbean.

 

There should be no legal difference between Hawaii to Sydney vs Hawaii to Singapore.  As long as the Hawaii part ends in a non-US port, it's legal from the US standpoint.

[Ourusualbeach]

10 minutes ago, morrowz said:

Apparently i can book the first 2 cruises ,but if they change itinerary from sydney to say “Singapore or Hong Kong “ anywhere else that is a “far away and foreign port “,I would then have to buy that cruise ,or be fined ,this was told to me by the Australian rep for Royal Caribbean.

 

As long as that third leg does not end in a US port you are fine. 

[morrowz]

No ,the problem ,is with us ,we are Australian and chose this itinerary to sail home for our wedding anniversary,would defeat our purpose if we end up in Asia 😂And I just find it odd they are expecting people to book these two cruises without knowing for sure where we will end up 🤔we will probably be happy whatever happens as it is something we have always wanted to do ,that is a long extended cruise 

[morrowz]

😱omg ,don’t say that !!The rep said he is 98 % sure it is still coming down to Australia but he wouldn’t put it in writing ,

[iuki]

On 12/10/2018 at 4:34 PM, Host Clarea said:

 

The PVSA only comes into play when the starting and ending point of a cruise are US ports.

 

If the start and end ports are the same US port, then they only have to visit any foreign port to be legal.

 

If the start and end ports are different US ports, then they have to visit a distant foreign port to be legal.

 

Again, "cruise" for the purpose of this law has nothing to do with what the cruise line calls a cruise, it only depends on what the passenger is doing.

 

We have booked a B2B on Vision OTS leaving Miami (one way) for a Panama Canal Cruise in Oct 2019, arriving in Long Beach, CA.  We have the same cabin leaving Long Beach (one way) on a Panama Canal Cruise arriving in Ft Lauderdale.  We booked this 32-night B2B with the C&A desk via phone call.  Is this a legal booking?

[Clarea]

7 minutes ago, iuki said:

 

We have booked a B2B on Vision OTS leaving Miami (one way) for a Panama Canal Cruise in Oct 2019, arriving in Long Beach, CA.  We have the same cabin leaving Long Beach (one way) on a Panama Canal Cruise arriving in Ft Lauderdale.  We booked this 32-night B2B with the C&A desk via phone call.  Is this a legal booking?

 

Sure because you will be visiting a distant foreign port, such as Cartegena.

[Desert Cruizers]

In 2014 my husband & I flew to Sydney and did a NZ cruise then a B2B ( 9 days later ) from Sydney to Honolulu and Honolulu to Seattle before flying home.We spent the 9 days sight seeing around Sydney and re boarded on April 1 2014 for a 30 day cruise. A few years ago friends of mine wanted to board in Seattle to Vancouver, then do the Coastal from Vancouver to San Pedro but they couldn't do the Seattle to Vancouver leg so they just flew up to Vancouver for the Coastal. 

[MRRG]

On our Ovation Trans Pacific from Hawaii to Vancouver we have a port stop in Seattle and then the next day debark in Vancouver. What would be the consequences of us "missing the ship" to sail to Vancouver? Just thinking out loud, not sure I would actually do that, but I was on a cruise where many cruisers got off in Victoria instead of sailing to Seattle.  There are more convenient flight options for us from Sesttle……...

[Biker19]

8 minutes ago, MRRG said:

On our Ovation Trans Pacific from Hawaii to Vancouver we have a port stop in Seattle and then the next day debark in Vancouver. What would be the consequences of us "missing the ship" to sail to Vancouver? Just thinking out loud, not sure I would actually do that, but I was on a cruise where many cruisers got off in Victoria instead of sailing to Seattle.  There are more convenient flight options for us from Sesttle……...

Are you sure that stop before Vancouver is not Victoria?

 

BTW, debarking in Seattle would cost about $700 (PVSA fine).