Maximum Occupancy

[my3sonsnj]

Hi Everyone,

 

I am wondering if anyone knows whether cruise ship spaces have maximum occupancy requirements based on square footage? 

If so, what is the standard?

 

Thanks so much!

Edited January 21, 2019 by my3sonsnj

[Texas Tillie]

9 minutes ago, my3sonsnj said:

Hi Everyone,

 

I am wondering if anyone knows whether cruise ship spaces have maximum occupancy requirements based on square footage? 

If so, what is the standard?

 

Thanks so much!

 

Maximum occupancy is measured by spaces on the life boats. It's the number of "souls" (their terminology) the life boats hold. A 9 month old baby and a 300 pound man each count as one soul.

[nolatravelgirl]

I posted to the wrong thread

Edited January 21, 2019 by nolatravelgirl

[my3sonsnj]

1 minute ago, Texas Tillie said:

 

Maximum occupancy is measured by spaces on the life boats. It's the number of "souls" (their terminology) the life boats hold. A 9 month old baby and a 300 pound man each count as one soul.

Thanks for the information! 

 

I'm actually more interested in specific spaces (atrium, buffet, bars, sundecks, etc.) that don't have a method to control the number of passengers in an area based on seating capacity, such as the dining rooms and theater.

[spookwife]

Lounge A may have seats for 75 and space for another 25 standing/dancing but that doesn’t mean the max occupancy of Lounge A is 100.

 

 

[my3sonsnj]

Thanks spookwife . . . looking for standards such as those that apply to businesses on land. 

 Example: https://legalbeagle.com/6306392-calculate-maximum-occupancy-room.html

[Texas Tillie]

Found this website that gives you a ratio number of the number of passengers to the total space on the ship.

 

https://www.cruisemapper.com/wiki/761-cruise-ship-passenger-capacity-ratings

[leaveitallbehind]

15 minutes ago, my3sonsnj said:

Thanks for the information! 

 

I'm actually more interested in specific spaces (atrium, buffet, bars, sundecks, etc.) that don't have a method to control the number of passengers in an area based on seating capacity, such as the dining rooms and theater.

 

As indicated, the maximum ship human capacity is determined strictly by lifeboat capacity.  The square footage of the venues on board are designed around the passenger capacity and with the main dining room as example, typically are large enough to hold about half the capacity at one time and stage their seatings with early and late times to balance the load.  Flexible dining options typically are limited in size and occupy some of the MDR space. 

 

Other dining venues - as with any restaurant - limit their seatings based on their size knowing that most passengers will eat most of their meals in the MDR.  And although the buffet is significantly large enough,  not everyone always eats there for breakfast or lunch, nor do they eat at the same time, so the buffet loads - although among the most crowded - are handled accordingly

 

Theater capacity is similar to that of the MDR and show times are balanced as well to early and late dining seating.  There are usually enough other venues - pools, bars, etc., to balance the load across all.  The sundecks are all around the upper decks of the ship and can handle very large crowds.  As the Atrium is usually one of two (or more) primary elevator locations with people coming and going constantly, they do not need to be designed to handle the ship's capacity at one time.

 

Ships are well designed specific to the planned maximum capacity with much thought given in balancing that load properly at the different venues on board. I would not be concerned with crowding at any given venue at any on time, except with dining and theater lobbies awaiting the doors to open for a given dining or show time.

Edited January 21, 2019 by leaveitallbehind

[my3sonsnj]

3 minutes ago, Texas Tillie said:

Found this website that gives you a ratio number of the number of passengers to the total space on the ship.

 

https://www.cruisemapper.com/wiki/761-cruise-ship-passenger-capacity-ratings

That is perfect!!!

Thanks so much for finding this for me.

 

Wondering if anyone thinks that cruise lines design and assign square footage to spaces based on the anticipated number of passengers using those areas? Or is an occupancy standard not a consideration?

[my3sonsnj]

3 minutes ago, leaveitallbehind said:

 

As indicated, the maximum ship human capacity is determined strictly by lifeboat capacity.  The square footage of the venues on board are designed around the passenger capacity and with the main dining room as example, typically are large enough to hold about half the capacity at one time and stage their seatings with early and late times to balance the load.  Flexible dining options typically are limited in size and occupy some of the MDR space. 

 

Other dining venues - as with any restaurant - limit their seatings based on their size knowing that most passengers will eat most of their meals in the MDR.  And although the buffet is significantly large enough,  not everyone always eats there for breakfast or lunch, nor do they eat at the same time, so the buffet loads - although among the most crowded - are handled accordingly

 

Theater capacity is similar to that of the MDR and show times are balanced as well to early and late dining seating.  There are usually enough other venues - pools, bars, etc., to balance the load across all.  The sundecks are all around the upper decks of the ship and can handle very large crowds.  As the Atrium is usually one of two (or more) primary elevator locations with people coming and going constantly, they do not need to be designed to handle the ship's capcity at one time.

 

I would not be concerned with crowding at any given venue at any on time, except with dining and theater lobbies awaiting the doors to open for a given dining or show time.

Thanks for the detailed information on seated dining areas.

 

I'm actually more interested in maximum occupancy planning in bars, atriums, buffets, sundecks, designated smoking areas, etc. The areas that on occasion get exceptionally crowded and people can barely move due to crowds.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, Texas Tillie said:

Found this website that gives you a ratio number of the number of passengers to the total space on the ship.

 

https://www.cruisemapper.com/wiki/761-cruise-ship-passenger-capacity-ratings

First off, I would take the typical "passengers per gross ton" ratings as only moderately accurate.  Gross tonnage is no longer a strict measurement of the ship's volume, unlike the older and now obsolete measurement "Gross Registered Tonnage", instead it is the interior volume of the ship multiplied by a factor "K", which is a non-linear factor, based on the actual volume (it is an exponential relationship), so the Gross Tonnage (GT) is always less than the actual volume.  Second, GT includes all of the ship's volume, including crew space, machinery space, and liquid (water, fuel, oil) tanks, so it really does not measure the "spaciousness" of a ship well.

2 hours ago, my3sonsnj said:

That is perfect!!!

Thanks so much for finding this for me.

 

Wondering if anyone thinks that cruise lines design and assign square footage to spaces based on the anticipated number of passengers using those areas? Or is an occupancy standard not a consideration?

Like the example you give, the spaces are designed with a certain square footage per person, but that can be modified by things like height of space, etc.  Like your example, it is based on fire codes, in the case of most ships and their class societies, I think it is the IFC (International Fire Code), and this takes into account the fire load of the space (the flammability of all fixtures and furnishings), and the suppression capacity of the fixed fire suppression systems (sprinklers on ships).  The IFC has a wide range of "occupant load factors" based on the function of the space and whether there is fixed seating or not.

 

With regards to your concerns about crowded bars and such, the IFC load factors for "assembly areas" (places where people meet) without fixed seating are very small (about 6-10 sq ft/person or less), and they are also allowed to have "transitional" occupant loading over this number.  Most of these public spaces are designed, from a fire safety standpoint, to be able to hold virtually wall to wall people.  As for design for passenger comfort, that is a totally different kettle of fish, and falls into the architectural world, and I have no idea how they determine sizing of spaces like that.

Edited January 21, 2019 by chengkp75

[calliopecruiser]

4 hours ago, my3sonsnj said:

That is perfect!!!

Thanks so much for finding this for me.

 

Wondering if anyone thinks that cruise lines design and assign square footage to spaces based on the anticipated number of passengers using those areas? Or is an occupancy standard not a consideration?

My guess is that there isn't a standard other than what the market will bear........they will squeeze in as many people on the ship (capacity ratio to size) as they can sell at a certain price point.  If they want to charge more, they will have to have a less crowded ship (that's crowds by proportion as well as number); if they want to be able to provide a lower ticket price, they'll have to squeeze more people on board.

[OVgirl]

Are you concerned about crowding in some areas of the ship?

[my3sonsnj]

6 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

First off, I would take the typical "passengers per gross ton" ratings as only moderately accurate.  Gross tonnage is no longer a strict measurement of the ship's volume, unlike the older and now obsolete measurement "Gross Registered Tonnage", instead it is the interior volume of the ship multiplied by a factor "K", which is a non-linear factor, based on the actual volume (it is an exponential relationship), so the Gross Tonnage (GT) is always less than the actual volume.  Second, GT includes all of the ship's volume, including crew space, machinery space, and liquid (water, fuel, oil) tanks, so it really does not measure the "spaciousness" of a ship well.

Like the example you give, the spaces are designed with a certain square footage per person, but that can be modified by things like height of space, etc.  Like your example, it is based on fire codes, in the case of most ships and their class societies, I think it is the IFC (International Fire Code), and this takes into account the fire load of the space (the flammability of all fixtures and furnishings), and the suppression capacity of the fixed fire suppression systems (sprinklers on ships).  The IFC has a wide range of "occupant load factors" based on the function of the space and whether there is fixed seating or not.

 

With regards to your concerns about crowded bars and such, the IFC load factors for "assembly areas" (places where people meet) without fixed seating are very small (about 6-10 sq ft/person or less), and they are also allowed to have "transitional" occupant loading over this number.  Most of these public spaces are designed, from a fire safety standpoint, to be able to hold virtually wall to wall people.  As for design for passenger comfort, that is a totally different kettle of fish, and falls into the architectural world, and I have no idea how they determine sizing of spaces like that.

Thanks for all of this information . . . very helpful in understanding the situation.

Edited January 21, 2019 by my3sonsnj

[my3sonsnj]

1 hour ago, OVgirl said:

Are you concerned about crowding in some areas of the ship?

Absolutely!

[zqvol]

11 hours ago, my3sonsnj said:

Thanks for the information! 

 

I'm actually more interested in specific spaces (atrium, buffet, bars, sundecks, etc.) that don't have a method to control the number of passengers in an area based on seating capacity, such as the dining rooms and theater.

 

The answer to your question is no, but most spaces do limit the number of passengers in a specific area because they have a finite number of seats in those areas. One exception might be the buffet, because you have people sitting and others going though the lines with a constant turnover of seats.