Mandatory Service Charges

[korpo024]

Just now, MarkusToe said:

Looks like this time is the first time ill try to remove..... 

Just to see what happened and have the reject in writing.... 

Same here...we never did remove the Service Charge, but now it is ilegally, mandatory, I will remove it...MSC just can not change the regulations of the game....

[PTC DAWG]

40 minutes ago, Beamafar said:

The thread is not about tipping;  it's about MSC making it compulsory to pay the Daily Service Charge which is another matter entirely.  (I'd wondered how long it would take for it to be diverted into a 'tipping' issue  🙄).

Call the DSC whatever you want, it is a tip in the old school jargon.  I prefer it to the envelope lineup they used to have on cruises. 

 

YMMV.

Edited February 21, 2019 by PTC DAWG

[Captain-John]

1 hour ago, Omega1 said:

As I posted previously, in my opinion this is not about the moral stance of to pay, or not to pay gratuities/tips/ service charge. It makes no difference to me as I leave the discretionary charge in place. I am more interested in the legal/regulatory position of MSC now implementing an additional mandatory charge after final payment, that wasn’t communicated at the time of booking, not included in t&c’s and appears to fall foul of the Package Travel and Linked Travel Regulations 2018.

I phoned ABTA earlier and asked for their take on it - the immediate response was that it seems contrary to the above regs. The person I spoke to was interested enough to ask me to file a complaint which they will investigate. I will oblige!

If MSC want to introduce a mandatory service charge they should include it in the up front overall price and not play fast and loose with UK and EU law.

For me such actions are the thin end of the wedge - what next? Additional mandatory charges for air con in your cabin, daily change of towels, etc.

 

 

Absolutely echo this. In nearly 20 cruises, I have had cause on 1 occasion to reduce the service charge by 50%. I won't go into the details here, as I don't need lectured by strangers on the internet. For me it is more the principle and it's unfathomable that MSC think this can be enforced. Please do let us know how the complaint goes - I have 2 upcoming MSC bookings and I will follow suit when I've read into the process a bit more.

 

1 hour ago, sidari said:

Omega ... May ring ABTA myself tomorrow see what they say.

 

As above - please keep us posted.

1 hour ago, Beamafar said:

ETA ... To get back to the topic at hand;  I think I'll be doing the same as Dave and Omega.  I'll also be keeping an eye on the German site to see if the policy changes as one of my bookings is with a German company (though that's not particularly relevant as we, too, are EU members and have the same protections).

 

As above! 🙂

 

1 hour ago, Beamafar said:

The thread is not about tipping;  it's about MSC making it compulsory to pay the Daily Service Charge which is another matter entirely.  (I'd wondered how long it would take for it to be diverted into a 'tipping' issue  🙄).

 

Indeed. For argument's sake (whether it's right or wrong), I wonder what stance a bank would take if a charge back was filed. If you don't sign the bill and leave it in your cabin, then surely you haven't agreed to all the charges and have a right to dispute? You'd then pull out the T&C's in force when you made the booking (as well as any ABTA advice etc.) as well as provide your rationale that an adequate service (to merit a 'service' charge) was not provided (and the action you took to remedy the issues). At the very least it would waste MSC's time (and money) fighting the charge back!

 

So on this topic I often make the point that it is obviously advantageous to the cruise line (tax reasons) to charge the DSC in the way they do (rather than rolling into the upfront price). Who ultimately benefits from that? I'm sure most people would not notice an extra €70 p.p. on a cruise fare but it's certainly noticed on the onboard bill.

 

 

Edited February 21, 2019 by Captain-John

[free from work]

1 hour ago, KlausM999 said:

In Germany there will be no change, there is a judgement from BGH that the final price has to be fix. 

But for sure, we will be cruising for the last time with MSC in April 2019, because we dont like all these tricky changes (Aurea Package) without Information. We are glad that our booking will honor the old package, but we hate all this neccesary conversation with MSC.

Hi. Really sorry to hijack this topic but what are the "tricky changes (Aurea Package)" which you have highlighted? 

 

Jim 

[MarkusToe]

I assume he is ref to the Drink package  change... 

[cruiser man 60]

I will also contact ABTA as I have a couple  of cruises booked, I guess the more people who complain then it's possible MSC would need to change the policy for cruisers who booked prior to change date, similar to the drinks package changes.

[Beamafar]

13 minutes ago, free from work said:

Hi. Really sorry to hijack this topic but what are the "tricky changes (Aurea Package)" which you have highlighted? 

 

Jim 

 

The included drinks package for Aurea bookings is now the 'Easy' package - a downgrading on the previously included 'Classic' or 'All-Inclusive Restaurant & Bar' package.

 

It was a 'sneaky' change, just as the changes made to the DSC are.

 

Cap'n ... well said!

Edited February 21, 2019 by Beamafar

[free from work]

Just now, Beamafar said:

 

The included drinks package for Aurea bookings is now the 'Easy' package - a downgrading on the previously included 'Classic' or 'All-Inclusive Restaurant & Bar' package.

 

It was a 'sneaky' change, just as the changes made to the DSC are.

Hi Bea. 

 

This is for new bookings with existing AIRB packages still being honoured? 

[Beamafar]

45 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

Call the DSC whatever you want, it is a tip in the old school jargon.  I prefer it to the envelope lineup they used to have on cruises. 

 

YMMV.

 

A tip is discretionary;  the DSC is now mandatory (according to MSC).  Hence it is NOT a tip.

[Beamafar]

25 minutes ago, free from work said:

Hi Bea. 

 

This is for new bookings with existing AIRB packages still being honoured? 

 

Hi Jim ... That's right - for bookings made after the introduction of the new packages.  MSC has grandfathered in the old packages for those who booked before then (though some of the included items have been moved into higher tier price ranges - eg we had the Deluxe package on our recent cruise.  Hendricks gin used to be included in that;  it's now in the Connoisseurs' Selection, so now only the Premium+ package includes it.

Edited February 21, 2019 by Beamafar

[ziggyuk]

Beamafar

Sorry to be a bit off topic but I'm a Hendricks driker and I was expecting that on my next cruise with the old Deluxe, are you saying I wont get it now? You got me worried now. 

[free from work]

Just now, Beamafar said:

 

Hi Jim ... That's right - for bookings made after the introduction of the new packages.  MSC has grandfathered in the old packages for those who booked before then (though some of the included items have been moved into higher tier price ranges - eg we had the Deluxe package on our recent cruise.  Hendricks gin used to be included in that;  it's now in the Connoisseurs' Collection, so now only the Premium+ package includes it.

Phew! Thank goodness for that! With everything that's going on I thought I'd missed something. However your highlighting the change to the Hendricks is definitely sneeky! 

 

However going back to the DSC, we are on a Grand Voyage and decided to prepay them due to the potential of the pound tanking and saved £200 against what we would have paid had we waited until the end of the cruise, so at the moment perhaps savings can be made. 

 

Jim

[Beamafar]

6 minutes ago, ziggyuk said:

Beamafar

Sorry to be a bit off topic but I'm a Hendricks driker and I was expecting that on my next cruise with the old Deluxe, are you saying I wont get it now? You got me worried now. 

 

 

That was my experience on Armonia, Ziggy. Basically the Deluxe has been replaced with the Premium; but we did get the mini-bar.  As Jim has just said in the above post - another sneaky move.





Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

Edited February 21, 2019 by Beamafar

[Beamafar]

5 minutes ago, free from work said:

Phew! Thank goodness for that! With everything that's going on I thought I'd missed something. However your highlighting the change to the Hendricks is definitely sneeky! 

 

However going back to the DSC, we are on a Grand Voyage and decided to prepay them due to the potential of the pound tanking and saved £200 against what we would have paid had we waited until the end of the cruise, so at the moment perhaps savings can be made. 

 

Jim

 

Aw, Jim ... how is my highlighting it sneaky?  (Just kidding  )

[ziggyuk]

5 minutes ago, Beamafar said:

 

 

That was my experience on Armonia, Ziggy. Basically the Deluxe has been replaced with the Premium; but we did get the mini-bar.  As Jim has just said in the above post - another sneaky move.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

 

Gutted but looking at that, I will take the Plymouth, I didn't know they did that, Plymouth has been my Gin of choice for 35 years!

[Beamafar]

1 minute ago, ziggyuk said:

 

Gutted but looking at that, I will take the Plymouth, I didn't know they did that, Plymouth has been my Gin of choice for 35 years!

 

Oh ... I'll have to try that one out.  (Don't know if it's on the Med menus so I may not be able to try it then;  hopefully they'll stock Meraviglia with it when she sails her New York itineraries).

 

(Yeah, yeah, Dave .... totally off-topic!  Touts apologies).   😘

[sidari]

Bea ... Guess I will have to Gin and bear it ! ... 

[Beamafar]

I'm laughing so much, DH asked "What is it, now - Dave, I suppose?"

[free from work]

37 minutes ago, Beamafar said:

 

Aw, Jim ... how is my highlighting it sneaky?  (Just kidding  )

Hi Bea. 

 

Hahaha haha. 

 

I think I've just confirmed that men (specifically me) can't multi - task. However the drinking Malbec and cooking the steak went well. Only the CC posting suffered. 

 

Jim

Edited February 21, 2019 by free from work
Spelling

[Beamafar]

4 minutes ago, free from work said:

Hi Bea. 

 

Hahaha haha. 

 

I think I've just confirmed that men (specifically me) can't multi - task. However the drinking Malbec and cooking the steak went well. Only the CC posting suffered. 

 

Jim

 

Bragging again!  

 

(Jeez, Jim ... I'm already in enough trouble with Dave.  He'll kick me off this thread for derailing it ) 

[8420PR]

3 hours ago, PTC DAWG said:

I don't understand anyone wanting to remove the DSC's from their account.  You know it's there, and it takes care of the staff that serves you on the boat. Removing it reeks of cheapness to me.  IF you can't afford it, don't sail on ships that have this in place.  

 

Tipping in one form or another has been a part of cruising for just about forever.  

I also support this change, as it levels the playing field.  I could save £140 per cabin on a 7 day Caribbean cruise, but just can't bring myself to stiff the crew like that (even though most of their DSC bonus is based on post cruise reviews).

 

MSC could have made the change only for new bookings (similar to drinks package changes), but I guess they looked at NCL and Costa and realised it was going to cause lots of negative feedback regardless and then quiet down.   Maybe, like NCL, they will try this out in one market and see if there is any impact on bookings.

 

 

[sidari]

33 minutes ago, 8420PR said:

I also support this change, as it levels the playing field.  I could save £140 per cabin on a 7 day Caribbean cruise, but just can't bring myself to stiff the crew like that (even though most of their DSC bonus is based on post cruise reviews).

 

MSC could have made the change only for new bookings (similar to drinks package changes), but I guess they looked at NCL and Costa and realised it was going to cause lots of negative feedback regardless and then quiet down.   Maybe, like NCL, they will try this out in one market and see if there is any impact on bookings.

 

 

Maybe it is the idea of an Ex NCL Employee! So far it would seem that it only appears on the UK website  and no others, if that is the case and it remains that way there would be a case for discrimination against MSC. 

[Captain-John]

Just now, sidari said:

Maybe it is the idea of an Ex NCL Employee! So far it would seem that it only appears on the UK website  and no others, if that is the case and it remains that way there would be a case for discrimination against MSC. 

 

Happens all the time in the cruise industry, sadly. Different T&C's for different regions - and the UK always seems to get the worst end of the deal (esp. compared to the  USA). We're obviously just too soft and capitulate to these tactics, whereas our American cousins are more effective at voting with their wallet.

[sidari]

CJ ... Someone just posted on an MSC FB page that it is on the Spanish site as well now.

[Beamafar]

5 minutes ago, sidari said:

Maybe it is the idea of an Ex NCL Employee! So far it would seem that it only appears on the UK website  and no others, if that is the case and it remains that way there would be a case for discrimination against MSC. 

 

It's on the Ireland website too, Dave (or don't we count?)