Two different dresscodes the same evening.

[Linda the Book Lover]

Thanks, CGTNORMANDIE for your clothing descriptions and everyone else for giving me a smile this morning. As long as men do not wear a hat to the table and everyone is clean and dressed I am good. Though in our younger days I loved formal dress this is no longer the case and we are more of the business casual/casual type now. 

[BermudaBound2014]

On 2/26/2019 at 7:24 AM, sverigecruiser said:

 

One of the days on our recent Divina cruise the suggested Dress Code in the Daily Program was "smart casual". We also got an invitation to "Welcome Back Cocktail" for 8.15 with the Dress Code: Elegant. How did MSC expected us to handle that?

 

 

IMO, this is another example of poor communication. Would someone please introduce the right hand to the left? I am really teetering on another MSC cruise because I find MSC a good value, but it seems that the communication is becoming more and more inconsistent (and the bar was already very low).

[SeaTheW0rld]

2 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

IMO, this is another example of poor communication. Would someone please introduce the right hand to the left? I am really teetering on another MSC cruise because I find MSC a good value, but it seems that the communication is becoming more and more inconsistent (and the bar was already very low).

 

Why do you say that?  The directives were very clear.  You can't expect the ship to adjust dress suggestions for the entire ship to accommodate a small group. 

 

The problem is people thinking they cannot exceed the dress suggestions.  Never heard in the MDR: "Sir/Madam, you look too nice this evening.  Please leave." 🤪

[asctony]

8 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

IMO, this is another example of poor communication. Would someone please introduce the right hand to the left? I am really teetering on another MSC cruise because I find MSC a good value, but it seems that the communication is becoming more and more inconsistent (and the bar was already very low).

We have had the same thing happen to us on a Princess cruise. Maybe you are too critical or it had never happened to you. HAPPY CRUISING!

[CGTNORMANDIE]

1 hour ago, Reds4life said:

 

Easy...the gentleman is wearing a cravat...the young lady is wearing a kerchief scarf...lol. 

[Reds4life]

24 minutes ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

 

Easy...the gentleman is wearing a cravat...the young lady is wearing a kerchief scarf...lol. 

Lol I can honestly say I have learned a lot from this thread. I am from Southern Ohio and as a kid everyone always asked why Fred had that funny scarf around his neck. I remember some sophisticated sounding adult told us that it was an ascot  

 

 

 

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

IMO, this is another example of poor communication. Would someone please introduce the right hand to the left? I am really teetering on another MSC cruise because I find MSC a good value, but it seems that the communication is becoming more and more inconsistent (and the bar was already very low).

 

I agree with you that communication is one of MSCs problems.

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, SeaTheW0rld said:

 

Why do you say that?  The directives were very clear.  You can't expect the ship to adjust dress suggestions for the entire ship to accommodate a small group. 

 

The problem is people thinking they cannot exceed the dress suggestions.  Never heard in the MDR: "Sir/Madam, you look too nice this evening.  Please leave." 🤪

 

The number of guests getting the invitation to the Welcome Back Cocktail must have been very high. We went to the Black "party" and there were LOTS of people there.

 

It should have been very easy to either have the Welcome Back Cocktail on a Elegant night or adjust the dress code for that to the dress code for that evening.

[JamieLogical]

18 hours ago, asctony said:

The worst part is that the Cruise Lines do not enforce them.

 

I never understood the displeasure people have over the lack of dress codes or the lack of enforcement of dress codes. Who cares what other people are wearing? I don't get it. Is it actually deeply offensive to you to see other people enjoying a meal in shorts or a baseball cap? If so, why?

 

I do notice it, but I certainly don't get offended by it or allow it to affect my experience at all. On my latest cruise, we ate at Ocean Blue on the Norwegian Bliss. It is one of their few restaurants on board with a dress code. Men are expected to wear long pants, collared shirts, closed toe shoes (no sandals), and no baseball caps. My SO and I dressed up accordingly (mostly just because we thought of it as a "date night" and wanted to look nice for each other). Two men sat at a table near us. One was wearing a t-shirt and a baseball cap, though he was wearing long jeans. The other was wearing a collared shirt, but with shorts and flip-flops. I noticed it, but I didn't give it another thought after that. It's not like I couldn't stomach my food at the sight of a man in shorts or something...

[SeaTheW0rld]

11 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

The number of guests getting the invitation to the Welcome Back Cocktail must have been very high. We went to the Black "party" and there were LOTS of people there.

 

It should have been very easy to either have the Welcome Back Cocktail on a Elegant night or adjust the dress code for that to the dress code for that evening.

 

Not to argue, but let's do some math.  Divina holds 3500 pax.  Define "lots of people", please.  I'll work out the percent. 

[BermudaBound2014]

1 hour ago, SeaTheW0rld said:

 

Why do you say that?  The directives were very clear.  You can't expect the ship to adjust dress suggestions for the entire ship to accommodate a small group. 

 

The problem is people thinking they cannot exceed the dress suggestions.  Never heard in the MDR: "Sir/Madam, you look too nice this evening.  Please leave." 🤪

 

I've been attending "Welcome Back" cocktail parties for over 30 years and can not think of a single time when the Welcome Back party was not held before first seating on a formal night (before 'anytime' dining evolved).  MSC does not offer 'anytime' dining unless you book YC or Auroura so having the party at 8:30 ensures that the majority of the ship who have late dining will miss the party. I would have to see the exact daily from the trip in question, but I have to believe that MSC could have had the party at some point during the cruise where everyone who wanted to, could attend.  Even with 'anytime' dining on other lines, I have not seen a Welcome Back party with a scheduling conflict to this extent.

 

Regarding attire, the common sense solution (to me) is to have all events in the evening require the same attire. Of course people can 'dress up', and many of MSC cruise passengers do. In general, Europeans have a much better sense of dress/style than those of us from North America. With that in mind, let's say I was a passenger who wanted to bring two ball gowns anticipating two formal nights, yet also wanted to attend the Welcome back party? Even if I had the luxury of anytime dining on MSC, that would require I double dip ball gowns. Certainly not the end of the world, but not good planning IMO.

 

I do not single MSC out when I address poor communication; as very few lines are exceptional when it comes to consistency. I actually give MSC a bit of a pass because I think they are dealing with more languages, hence more language barriers. However;  in my experience, MSC has the absolute worst track record when it comes to consistent communication, rules, and policies. YC inclusion, drink packages, gratuities, and changing itineraries come to mind off the top of my head as current areas where MSC has not demonstrated 'left hand/right hand' competency. 

It might not seem like it, but I actually like MSC as a value based choice. At this time, I will only choose MSC if they are the least expensive. If they would tighten up some of the loose ends, I would pay more for a MSC cruise. The ships are gorgeous, and I like a more international flare. This particular board is such a great resource because even the most loyal MSC followers acknowledge the shortcomings.

 

Sorry for the long winded response :). 

 

 

 

 

 

[asctony]

3 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

IMO, this is another example of poor communication. Would someone please introduce the right hand to the left? I am really teetering on another MSC cruise because I find MSC a good value, but it seems that the communication is becoming more and more inconsistent (and the bar was already very low).

We have had the same thing happen to us on a Princess cruise. Maybe you are too critical or it had never happened to you. HAPPY CRUISING!

[asctony]

Sorry to disagree that welcome parties are only held on Formal nights. We just got off of a Princess SEA cruise and the WB party was not on a formal night. Other cruise lines such as Celebrity hold them in the afternoon. 

So, there is no set rule when they are held. 

Been CRUISING over 30 years. HAPPY CRUISING!

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, SeaTheW0rld said:

 

Not to argue, but let's do some math.  Divina holds 3500 pax.  Define "lots of people", please.  I'll work out the percent. 

 

I think at least 200 people on the Black party.

[SeaTheW0rld]

6 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

I think at least 200 people on the Black party.

Thanks.  

 

200 / 3500 = .057 or 5.7%  It's nice to be recognized, but we're still just a number. 

 

[BermudaBound2014]

24 minutes ago, asctony said:

Sorry to disagree that welcome parties are only held on Formal nights. We just got off of a Princess SEA cruise and the WB party was not on a formal night. Other cruise lines such as Celebrity hold them in the afternoon. 

So, there is no set rule when they are held. 

Been CRUISING over 30 years. HAPPY CRUISING!

I started cruising in 1987 so I'm nearing 30 years here too :).  My experience is that in the past, Welcome back parties were only held on Formal nights (pre- invention of "my time" dining). I'm talking 80's and 90's. I believe I said that post "my time" dining cruise lines are holding WB parties at times where most could attend (as evidenced by your recent Celebrity cruise).

 

Do you disagree that:

1) Holding a Welcome Back party at 8:30 on a line that does not offer 'my time' dining is excluding a large percentage of cruisers (ie, all the cruisers who do not have YC and Aurora and are forced to eat at late dining).

2) The most sensible approach is to make evening requested attire uniform across the ship.

 

I'm not trying to be mean-spirited and argumentative, we obviously both love cruising therefore I bet we can find even more things in common. I'm genuinely interested in your answers to #1 and #2. :)

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

I've been attending "Welcome Back" cocktail parties for over 30 years and can not think of a single time when the Welcome Back party was not held before first seating on a formal night (before 'anytime' dining evolved).  MSC does not offer 'anytime' dining unless you book YC or Auroura so having the party at 8:30 ensures that the majority of the ship who have late dining will miss the party. I would have to see the exact daily from the trip in question, but I have to believe that MSC could have had the party at some point during the cruise where everyone who wanted to, could attend.  Even with 'anytime' dining on other lines, I have not seen a Welcome Back party with a scheduling conflict to this extent.

 

 

I'm thinking that maybe they had two times? Perhaps people with late dinner were invited to for example 6.30 instead of 8.15? I don't know but maybe that's a possibility.

 

[sverigecruiser]

30 minutes ago, SeaTheW0rld said:

Thanks.  

 

200 / 3500 = .057 or 5.7%  It's nice to be recognized, but we're still just a number. 

 

 

But if 200 attended the Black party how many were invited to the Welcome Back Cocktail? 1000? 1500? 2000? I don't know but it must be at least 1000, I think, and that's almost 30% of all the passengers.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

5 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

 

 

I hope we are not hijacking this thread and turning into a dress code thread.  The OP was inquiring about how to handle the various dress options and how they are defined.  

Edited February 27, 2019 by CGTNORMANDIE

[CGTNORMANDIE]

4 hours ago, JamieLogical said:

 

I never understood the displeasure people have over the lack of dress codes or the lack of enforcement of dress codes. Who cares what other people are wearing? I don't get it. Is it actually deeply offensive to you to see other people enjoying a meal in shorts or a baseball cap? If so, why?

 

I do notice it, but I certainly don't get offended by it or allow it to affect my experience at all. On my latest cruise, we ate at Ocean Blue on the Norwegian Bliss. It is one of their few restaurants on board with a dress code. Men are expected to wear long pants, collared shirts, closed toe shoes (no sandals), and no baseball caps. My SO and I dressed up accordingly (mostly just because we thought of it as a "date night" and wanted to look nice for each other). Two men sat at a table near us. One was wearing a t-shirt and a baseball cap, though he was wearing long jeans. The other was wearing a collared shirt, but with shorts and flip-flops. I noticed it, but I didn't give it another thought after that. It's not like I couldn't stomach my food at the sight of a man in shorts or something...

 

You are right...we should not be concerned with what other people are wearing onboard ship.  But what people are wearing in the dining room is another matter.  When someone shows up for dinner in a T-shirt, torn jeans and baseball cap it shows disrespect to those around them and those who serve them.  It’s all about courtesy towards others.  The fact that the ship does not enforce the dress code does not pre-empt it.  They are simply being polite to their guests who are abusing their hospitality.  As guest-passengers we should at least make an attempt to honor the suggested dress in the dining room...courtesy and manners.

Edited February 27, 2019 by CGTNORMANDIE

[SeaTheW0rld]

1 hour ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

 

You are right...we should not be concerned with what other people are wearing onboard ship.  But what people are wearing in the dining room is another matter.  When someone shows up for dinner in a T-shirt, torn jeans and baseball cap it shows disrespect to those around them and those who serve them.  It’s all about courtesy towards others.  The fact that the ship does not enforce the dress code does not pre-empt it.  They are simply being polite to their guests who are abusing their hospitality.  As guest-passengers we should at least make an attempt to honor the suggested dress in the dining room...courtesy and manners.

1. I'm a customer, not a guest (until such time as they are paying). 2. Any hospitality extended had likely been paid for by me. 

 

I don't know about you, but I don't charge people who are guests in my home. Not do I give a fig what they are wearing. 

 

[asctony]

Everyone has an opinion and the freedom to voice their opinions. What I think will not be accepted by MSC or any other cruise line. The same applies to the others who have an opinion. Examples of opinions:

 

'The fact that the ship does not enforce the dress code does not pre-empt it.  They are simply being polite to their guests who are abusing their hospitality. '

 

So, forget guests that abuse a cruise lines hospitality? Would you allow that of a guest who enters your home? Years ago we were thought to respect others and their property. Respect the law. Respect our neighbors.

Now, lets just be polite and let those who abuse slide?

 

Cruise lines just don't want to enforce their rules. Regardless of which rule. Again, should MSC or any other cruise line just be polite to those who abuse?

 

Kids in Adult areas. 

Chair hogs. - We were on the Seaside Aft deck 7 pool and 4 lounges were reserved with towels from 630AM until those 4 people showed up at 11AM. The pool staff knew this as they said the lounges were like that since 630AM.  When asked why they didn't remove the towels, the two staff personnel  just walked away. 'We must be polite??????????????'

Glass in pool.

I'm sure we can add more. 

 

[asctony]

To answer your questions/suggestions/comments:

Do you disagree that:

1) Holding a Welcome Back party at 8:30 on a line that does not offer 'my time' dining is excluding a large percentage of cruisers (ie, all the cruisers who do not have YC and Aurora and are forced to eat at late dining).

There will never be a time where it will be convenient for all. There is no one time each cruise line conducts these as even ships for that cruise line have different times based on itinerary, etc. Many people who cruise a lot no longer attend this function for a free drink. After x number of cruises, it is not worth the time/crowd, etc., just to get a free drink. 

2) The most sensible approach is to make evening requested attire uniform across the ship. 

How can they make requested attire uniform when they have a Gala/Chic/Formal/etc. night and people do not dress accordingly? Things have changed, dress as you like and smell the roses. LOL

 

[Linda the Book Lover]

4 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

 

You are right...we should not be concerned with what other people are wearing onboard ship.  But what people are wearing in the dining room is another matter.  When someone shows up for dinner in a T-shirt, torn jeans and baseball cap it shows disrespect to those around them and those who serve them.  It’s all about courtesy towards others.  The fact that the ship does not enforce the dress code does not pre-empt it.  They are simply being polite to their guests who are abusing their hospitality.  As guest-passengers we should at least make an attempt to honor the suggested dress in the dining room...courtesy and manners.

 

Thank you for politely stating the time-honored expectation of some about courtesy and manners. 

[CGTNORMANDIE]

30 minutes ago, Linda the Book Lover said:

Thank you for politely stating the time-honored expectation of some about courtesy and manners. 

 

You are most welcome.