How to upgrade to J on UA when traveling on points and have already paid for E+

[clo]

A CC pro suggested I ask this specific question here.  If that's not correct I'm sure you'll advise 🙂

 

We're doing a cruise (on Oceania) in December from Rio to Buenos Aires.  I used points to book Economy and then later paid to upgrade to Economy Plus.  Is there any way now to further upgrade to J?  Would waiting help?  I've looked on the UA site but can't find the answer.  And The Points Guy site is so far above my pay grade that it could be in Ancient Aramaic  🙂  ANY advice would be great.  Thanks.

[Gardyloo]

In general, "upgrading" from one award ticket to another involves the airline just adding the additional cost in miles (and possibly taxes) and revising your reservation accordingly.  I don't know how UA would handle the additional money you paid for the E+ seats, but I'm sure they have some means, maybe a cash refund, maybe a credit against future travel.  

 

The big issue is availability in business class.  You'll be competing against everybody else for any award seats for your flights; you won't get any special treatment because you're already ticketed in E+.  I would start by going on the UA website and pretending you're starting from scratch and see if there are any business class seats available on your travel days.  If there are, then I'd phone UA (even if it means paying a phone fee) and ask to switch your bookings to the available flights.  If there aren't, then all you can do is wait.  

[Hawaiidan]

49 minutes ago, Gardyloo said:

In general, "upgrading" from one award ticket to another involves the airline just adding the additional cost in miles (and possibly taxes) and revising your reservation accordingly.  I don't know how UA would handle the additional money you paid for the E+ seats, but I'm sure they have some means, maybe a cash refund, maybe a credit against future travel.  

 

The big issue is availability in business class.  You'll be competing against everybody else for any award seats for your flights; you won't get any special treatment because you're already ticketed in E+.  I would start by going on the UA website and pretending you're starting from scratch and see if there are any business class seats available on your travel days.  If there are, then I'd phone UA (even if it means paying a phone fee) and ask to switch your bookings to the available flights.  If there aren't, then all you can do is wait.  

In general UAl  only allows 1 class up grade   Coach- Prem- Business-First ( if they are still flying any first class

If your flying on FF miles and then paid to be up graded to Prem. that is the end of the line.   No double-ups, that wen away in the 80's

 

 You would have, as I understand it , cancel your FF miles and have points returned, and your Prem econ up grade refunded. There will be a cancel fee if your non elite, and also a fee to return your miles to your account.    Again this can be waived  if you have elite status with UAL

.   Then you would have to purchase a prem econ seat  or get a C or B fare  which will automatically put you to up grade to business.   IF....  The fly in the ointment is are there any seats available for up grade either instant at time of purchase or are they standby .   

Standby will go to elites starting 72 hours prior and down to non elites at time of check-in    However unless you have at least silver or  gold status  higher status  1K and Global service passengers can bump you.    Too  Cargo contract customers  can bump almost any one.    I once bumped the captains wife out of first in London  because  my company held a big cargo contract with UAL.    Its a game.      

Edited June 30, 2019 by Hawaiidan

[waterbug123]

17 hours ago, clo said:

 Is there any way now to further upgrade to J? 

 

Have you called the airline to ask how much it would cost to change your ticket to business class?  Airlines are sometimes lenient with change fees if one is upgrading their class of service, and will often only charge the fare difference and not the change fee as well.

On the other hand, if you're hoping you can find a trick to pay just a couple of hundred bucks to upgrade to an international fare that probably costs several thousand more, all I can say is good luck, because I doubt that exists.

[purduemom1]

On 6/30/2019 at 11:45 AM, Hawaiidan said:

   Too  Cargo contract customers  can bump almost any one.    I once bumped the captains wife out of first in London  because  my company held a big cargo contract with UAL.    Its a game.      

 

Not sure about the priority of a Cargo Contract pax vs other revenue pax but I’m guessing that you bumped the captain’s wife because she was flying NRSA (non revenue space available) and you were on a revenue ticket.

[Hawaiidan]

24 minutes ago, purduemom1 said:

 

Not sure about the priority of a Cargo Contract pax vs other revenue pax but I’m guessing that you bumped the captain’s wife because she was flying NRSA (non revenue space available) and you were on a revenue ticket.

In the day  I would only buy the cheapest coach... by check in that was always changed to first.  with a thank you for  flying again with us..... pretty cool..   After retirement  I  got a job with the UA at a line station as a PSA.... as  after 25 years I pretty much knew the business.

[Hawaiidan]

On 7/1/2019 at 4:12 AM, waterbug123 said:

 

Have you called the airline to ask how much it would cost to change your ticket to business class?  Airlines are sometimes lenient with change fees if one is upgrading their class of service, and will often only charge the fare difference and not the change fee as well.

On the other hand, if you're hoping you can find a trick to pay just a couple of hundred bucks to upgrade to an international fare that probably costs several thousand more, all I can say is good luck, because I doubt that exists.

How are you at schmoozing ?   Do you have upper elite status?    Know that  magic can be done at the gate which has final authority on who gets what.     .... 

[waterbug123]

20 hours ago, Hawaiidan said:

How are you at schmoozing ?   Do you have upper elite status?    Know that  magic can be done at the gate which has final authority on who gets what.     .... 

 

Actually yes, I do have upper elite status so don't generally worry about trying to schmooze an busy, overworked gate agent to get them to go against company policies and procedures regarding upgrades. I enjoy plenty of upgrades as is, that I receive as a perk of my frequent flyer status, my use of upgrade certificates that I receive as another status perk, or low mileage buy-up offers that are sometimes too good to pass up. 

(And the poster I was responding to, seemed to be looking for some means of upgrading ahead of time, not asking for advice on the questionable practice of schmoozing a gate agent at the last minute.)

[Hawaiidan]

2 hours ago, waterbug123 said:

 

Actually yes, I do have upper elite status so don't generally worry about trying to schmooze an busy, overworked gate agent to get them to go against company policies and procedures regarding upgrades. I enjoy plenty of upgrades as is, that I receive as a perk of my frequent flyer status, my use of upgrade certificates that I receive as another status perk, or low mileage buy-up offers that are sometimes too good to pass up. 

(And the poster I was responding to, seemed to be looking for some means of upgrading ahead of time, not asking for advice on the questionable practice of schmoozing a gate agent at the last minute.)

I  used to be  in the top club with UA  but   to buy  a reserved upgrade if your not a favored son is expensive to very difficult    It will cost.

My suggestion  is not questionable... it is a simple statement of fact that points to the final option you have and  how powerful that option.   It is entirely practical  and worth  knowing  who holds final sway.    I dont try to bug  people at the last moments...  such connections need to be done long before the gate pressure builds.            I have been both sides of the counter...

   Nice kind, considerate people  get  noticed and appreciated by agents..... with all the elite and fist slammers/ chest puffers. taking a second seat in many cases....

    Airline policy is that the agent is empowered  to do what is necessary as he sees it and to make decisions he feels appropriate  

Edited July 3, 2019 by Hawaiidan

[FlyerTalker]

1 hour ago, Hawaiidan said:

Airline policy is that the agent is empowered  to do what is necessary as he sees it and to make decisions he feels appropriate  

 

HA!!

 

Perhaps years ago at UA or elsewhere, but not anymore.

 

With advanced software, airlines are aware of just what gate agents are doing (or not doing) in the dispatch of their flight.  Every keystroke, every scan - it's all recorded, processed and analyzed.  And it's a part of the job evaluation for those employees.

 

There are many reported incidents of gate agents being suspended or fired for violating company procedures and policies.

[waterbug123]

16 hours ago, Hawaiidan said:

I  used to be  in the top club with UA  but   to buy  a reserved upgrade if your not a favored son is expensive to very difficult    It will cost.  Yes, that was kind of my original point to the OP , when I asked if they'd called the airline to find out how much the upgrade would cost.

 

My suggestion  is not questionable... it is a simple statement of fact that points to the final option you have and  how powerful that option.   It is entirely practical  and worth  knowing  who holds final sway.    I dont try to bug  people at the last moments...  such connections need to be done long before the gate pressure builds.     You spoke of how the gate agent has the final authority previously, then mention here that you don't bug people at the last minute.  But if you're dealing with a gate agent, then in my view you're talking about a last minute situation, i.e. you are within an hour of the flight departing.  

And while it may be your OPINION that it's not questionable, the fact is that airlines have very detailed policies that govern who/when/how all manner of upgrades are processed, .  If you are suggesting simply to be the nice guy who strikes up a friendly conversation with the GA and hopes for a random upgrade that you didn't pay for as a result of being that nice guy, you are essentially asking/hoping they will go against policy.  And when you ask someone to do that, or even simply imply that you hope they might, then yeah, that's questionable.  But you do you.  

 

   Nice kind, considerate people  get  noticed and appreciated by agents..... with all the elite and fist slammers/ chest puffers. taking a second seat in many cases....

    Airline policy is that the agent is empowered  to do what is necessary as he sees it and to make decisions he feels appropriate  

 

Yes...within a framework of detailed policies and procedures.  As Flyertalker said, the airlines can essentially see every keystroke made by the GA.  If someone is #1 on the upgrade list, hoping a global upgrade certificate clears at the last minute and instead the GA puts Joe Nobody in that last remaining business class seat to Paris simply because Joe was a nice guy who schmoozed him, that GA is subjecting himself to disciplinary action up to and including termination for violating policy/procedure.

[Hawaiidan]

48 minutes ago, waterbug123 said:

 

Yes...within a framework of detailed policies and procedures.  As Flyertalker said, the airlines can essentially see every keystroke made by the GA.  If someone is #1 on the upgrade list, hoping a global upgrade certificate clears at the last minute and instead the GA puts Joe Nobody in that last remaining business class seat to Paris simply because Joe was a nice guy who schmoozed him, that GA is subjecting himself to disciplinary action up to and including termination for violating policy/procedure.

No.... I was not suggesting that...      Merely that  sometimes  being a  nice guy and  making a connection goes a long way... if there are seats available and no one out ranks you.    There are other connections that can be used  but those  only apply to myself.   There are lots of variables if you have an edge somehow.

[Hawaiidan]

16 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

HA!!

 

Perhaps years ago at UA or elsewhere, but not anymore.

 

With advanced software, airlines are aware of just what gate agents are doing (or not doing) in the dispatch of their flight.  Every keystroke, every scan - it's all recorded, processed and analyzed.  And it's a part of the job evaluation for those employees.

 

There are many reported incidents of gate agents being suspended or fired for violating company procedures and policies.

Having worked for UA..... in the 90"s  ( on a lark after being a  1K)   we pretty much were empowered.

Ya'   I was an agent  GG#P. era...  newer systems  other than fastair are now in.   

Lots of flexibility at a line station... where I worked.   we did it ALL from wing walking to customer conflict situation..    

[waterbug123]

19 hours ago, Hawaiidan said:

No.... I was not suggesting that...      Merely that  sometimes  being a  nice guy and  making a connection goes a long way... if there are seats available and no one out ranks you.    There are other connections that can be used  but those  only apply to myself.   There are lots of variables if you have an edge somehow.

 

19 hours ago, Hawaiidan said:

Having worked for UA..... in the 90"s  ( on a lark after being a  1K)   we pretty much were empowered.

Ya'   I was an agent  GG#P. era...  newer systems  other than fastair are now in.   

Lots of flexibility at a line station... where I worked.   we did it ALL from wing walking to customer conflict situation..    

 

I think you'll find that air travel has changed since the '90s.  "If there are seats and no one outranks you" is a huge "if."  These days airlines are going more and more toward premium class monetization, will do anything to sell that seat, and will send premium seats out empty rather than compromise the integrity of the premium classes.  I've seen it happen and hear it talked about all the time in frequent flyer forums.  Elite level fliers ***** about it, but I understand the airline's point of view.  If the OP gets lucky, maybe, just maybe, he gets a buy-up offer in the weeks leading to his travel dates, that is less than the difference in what it would have cost to just book business class originally. 

 

[Hawaiidan]

4 hours ago, waterbug123 said:

 

 

I think you'll find that air travel has changed since the '90s.  "If there are seats and no one outranks you" is a huge "if."  These days airlines are going more and more toward premium class monetization, will do anything to sell that seat, and will send premium seats out empty rather than compromise the integrity of the premium classes.  I've seen it happen and hear it talked about all the time in frequent flyer forums.  Elite level fliers ***** about it, but I understand the airline's point of view.  If the OP gets lucky, maybe, just maybe, he gets a buy-up offer in the weeks leading to his travel dates, that is less than the difference in what it would have cost to just book business class originally. 

 

Totaly agree... I am a UAL junkey.   Before the Continental merger  I never not got a up grade when  lived in Hawaii.... ya  on Hawiian flights !     After the merger  now and then....    Now there are automatic systems that make up standby lists .... and  everyone with status ... any status  gets automatically on that list.    A non FF guy is playing a  against a stacked deck..   I have seen 30+ names on a list with only 2 seats open !!!   Schmoozing is the last redoubt...Being Ex Ual does not hurt either.

 

I think that they will fill the Prem econ with 1K/ Global guys and still sell the Business seats.    You  have probably been on flights that coach was 1/2 full but F  was 100%.... only 1/4 of them revenue.   

 

With the end of First class and Business replacing it   they are retaining the 3 cabin revenue with Prem economy, and still mining pockets for economy plus.  so  really 4 classes of fares.  The genius is rather than expanding  business, they have created 3 classes in coach !!!   Reaching down to the average  passenger to max his revenue  The poor coach guy now has 31-32 inches.       Back in the day   UA used to  have a revenue monster  called the 747-sp that ran Tokyo to Singapore and Hong kong  where high revenue capable customers lived.   It had 30 rows of  first class as I recall   !!!   1/2 the plane was F

Raffels catered it.... it was " unique"

Edited July 5, 2019 by Hawaiidan

[Budget Queen]

On 7/4/2019 at 10:19 AM, Hawaiidan said:

Having worked for UA..... in the 90"s  ( on a lark after being a  1K)   we pretty much were empowered.

Ya'   I was an agent  GG#P. era...  newer systems  other than fastair are now in.   

Lots of flexibility at a line station... where I worked.   we did it ALL from wing walking to customer conflict situation..    

A lot of changes since the 90’s.  And higher demand for those seats.    BUT don’t you fly nonrev anyway?     

[Hawaiidan]

35 minutes ago, Budget Queen said:

A lot of changes since the 90’s.  And higher demand for those seats.    BUT don’t you fly nonrev anyway?     

No...I did not retire from the company... just worked for a lark for several years after retiring because I really knew the business... well not the  computers. 

UA snatched me up as I was still a 1K  and could play toe to toe with the chest puffers.         People used to dress nice,  now the people flying  look like the were comfy on a Greyhound...( which make you think...who is now on the Greyhounds)

We used to fly 747 to Hawaii,...then 10's   then 767..then 757-  now 737    supply and demand less seats higher price.    From Ice sculptures and flowers and hand carved tenderloin in first   to micro wave lasagna.   I have friends who were UA drivers...Sr  47 guys   who today are lucky to get a coach seat now... Even deadhead pilots who used to fly in F  now are sitting in row 36.....  Its a new world

Knowing the coming storm was coming   booked  5 or so rt's  all over Europe Australia and Asia  most for under 60 to 80K.    I was shocked to see regular super economy going for 80K  and Prem econ for120K !!!

WOW.....WOW bad.

 Checked  now 4 months down the road and it and what cost me 80  is now 240,   180, 200,K      almost 500K more !!!!!    Wow        However  bu going to under utilized airports and dates and times  I can still snag as of today for summer 70K flights from Europe