Plastic Bottles Reusable

[alwaysonaship]

We just got off the Quest on Wednesday. Many people were discussing it and never did I hear from anyone that they liked them.  They still were offering the regular bottles when you went ashore. 

 

There were concerns about the lack of information where a well done  video could have run on the TV. Someone people didn’t care for the taste. Everyone mentioned that they  never saw these on the carts. The question came up ..where were they refilled?

 

All of these questions could have been answered, but they were never addressed. Our stewardess I didn’t ask about them because we rarely saw her. I had a nice conversation with guest relations and ask about the bottles. Did not get much of an answer , but that evening there were 2. 2ltr bottles in our suite.

 

Yes, I am aware that plastic wine glasses were used at the pool. On embarkation in Montreal we sat outside and had a glass of wine in one of them. However, we briskly walked past the pool after that to the Colonnade as it was cold and rainy. I did not miss your point. 

 

Our trip was lovely and just did our our guest questionnaire this morning. Surprisingly there were many first time cruisers on this trip. It was a very friendly group of people. However they did notice the bottles. We have cruised about 50 times, and no it didn’t spoil our trip at all. 

 

However we are are not convinced.

 

 

[cruiseej]

5 hours ago, SLSD said:

I have confidence that the cruise line industry is doing their best to prevent illness on board.  But, at the same time, even they must recognize that these particular plastic reusable water bottles don't have a long track record in the cruise industry.  We all know about bacteria and micro fissures.

 

This is exactly the misinformation I'm trying to debunk. 😉 First, BPA-free, resuable, dishwasher safe hard plastic water bottles have been around for a decade or longer. Second, the "micro-fissure" issue with bacteria concerns the single-use water bottles that are being phased out. Single-use plastic bottles -- the ones we're used to on the ships -- are mostly made of polyethylene terephthalate, or PET, and that is the plastic that develops micro-tissues and is not recommended for re-use. That problem has nothing to do with the hard water bottles of the type Seabourn is using; all they really have in common is that they are both commonly called "plastic" bottles, although they're nothing alike. (There are hundreds, maybe thousands of different types of plastics.)

 

As @sfvoyage has pointed out above, Seabourn and other cruise lines have long used re-usable plastic "glasses" on the pool deck, which get washed several times a day and constantly reused, yet I don't know of any concerns that has raised.   

 

Look, everything we use in everyday life is subject to changes as science unveils some new unknown hazard. Perhaps something bad will be found in dishwashing detergent. Or the chemicals used to finish glassware. Or a reaction between silverware and residue in towels after washing. Maybe some day they'll tell us the polyethylene coating of milk cartons isn't safe, and there will be a shift to another vessel. Red wine will be found to be bad again, then good again… 😉 My point is there are always new discoveries and theories, and I'm all for being guided by legitimate scientific findings. But people protesting the switch to reusable bottles on the grounds that it might not be safe is not, to my knowledge, based on anything factual. (And not to get political here: facts still matter. 😉 )

[SLSD]

49 minutes ago, cruiseej said:

 

This is exactly the misinformation I'm trying to debunk. 😉 First, BPA-free, resuable, dishwasher safe hard plastic water bottles have been around for a . But people protesting the switch to reusable bottles on the grounds that it might not be safe is not, to my knowledge, based on anything factual. (And not to get political here: facts still matter. 😉 )

Cruiseej, Once again, I mostly agree with you (and especially (not getting political) that facts matter more than ever.)  I hope that Seabourn will come out with specifications and sterilization information that will give everyone confidence. 

 

[cece50]

The grab & go concept is a new addition to Nordaq & Vero....it was not part of the original concept.....glass carafes were.   While traveling far from home and drinking large amounts of water,  I’ll be happier if I live by my own set of facts, which is....it feels better to use my own reusable bottle.  That being said, I would like to know if the restaurants are using glass carafes to fill our water glasses, and will there be touch-less filling stations which I have seen elsewhere.  There was good reason that these companies choose to dispense their water into glass in their original plan.....now I think this plastic grab & go thing is a marketing decision. Of course, it makes sense, but if I was Seabourn, I  would just give everyone a new good quality reusable bottle perfectly sized for day tours, provided by Nordaq or Seabourn, and put little packets of dishwashing liquid in each cabin....along with sealed glass carafes of said water.  (We were at a very high end, health conscious & environmentally sensitive spa resort in Pennsylvania that did exactly that.).  If you want to turn yours in to be reused by the ship.....that would be your choice. 

 

I have yet to stay in a hotel that uses reusable plastic bottles.  I know they use those systems in their restaurants etc....but have not found one yet in my room.  Maybe, someone can tell me about their experience.  Hotels would give me more pause than Seabourn. 

 

I am not protesting the cruise lines doing this.....don’t think it would matter anyway....but these discussions & concerns are valid & not to be dismissed out of hand.  So called facts are not infallible.......that is a fact.  An Australian professor once said......”Facts & opinions need not be positioned in opposition to each other, as they have complementary functions in our decision making.  In a rational framework, they are equally useful.   But that’s just my opinion— it’s not a fact.”

 

 I had to think about that quote a bit.....but heck.....it fit my narrative.  Happy & healthy sailing to all....that it from me🥰

Edited October 6, 2019 by cece50

[cruiseej]

11 hours ago, cece50 said:

The grab & go concept is a new addition to Nordaq & Vero....it was not part of the original concept.....glass carafes were... There was good reason that these companies choose to dispense their water into glass in their original plan.

 

The initial uses of their water purification systems were for restaurants. Glass carafes were the appropriate vessel to use for that purpose. But that shouldn't create any concerns about the plastic bottles. As they expanded at hotels, hotels needed a solution for pools, health clubs, etc., and plastic bottles were added. As noted above, BPA-free, reusable plastic bottles designed to be used in commercial dishwashers have been around for a long time, so Vero and Nordaq added these products to their systems -- and that is what made it viable for cruise ship companies to look at widespread deployment. Suggesting that the plastic is less safe because it was added to the product line later has no basis in fact.

 

11 hours ago, cece50 said:

I have yet to stay in a hotel that uses reusable plastic bottles.  I know they use those systems in their restaurants etc....but have not found one yet in my room.

 

Many high end hotels sell bottled water at a huge profit, so they may not be quick to give that up! But they may use plastic bottles in gyms and pools even if they don't put them in every guest room. Vero lists Hyatt, Marriott, Ritz-Carlton, Kimpton, MGM Resorts, Gaylord, Iberostar and Hard Rock hotels among their customers. Nordaq lists Shangri-La, Marriott, Sheraton and Mandarin Oriental among their customers. I imagine how and where they use these water systems varies from property to property, but there can be no doubt a transformation is happening in the hospitality industry. 

 

11 hours ago, cece50 said:

So called facts are not infallible.......that is a fact.

 

No system is infallible. We've all had a dirty glass, a dirty plate, dirty silverware come out of dishwashers that should prevent that, but there are always both human and mechanical factors which can render any system fallible. I'm only saying that I see no reason to expect the cleaning of reusable plastic bottles to be any more problematic than the cleaning of other vessels and tools we're all used to eating and drinking from.

[cece50]

Found out that Oceana is implementing the Vero system and will be giving passengers their own new reusable bottle to use & keep.   A friend who sailed Silversea Explorer said the water in their cabins was in glass carafes and the reusable bottles they were given to keep were metal lined.  Why Seabourn would choose to “lend out” cumbersome sized plastic bottles at the gangway is beyond me. 

[kimanjo]

6 hours ago, cece50 said:

Found out that Oceana is implementing the Vero system and will be giving passengers their own new reusable bottle to use & keep.   A friend who sailed Silversea Explorer said the water in their cabins was in glass carafes and the reusable bottles they were given to keep were metal lined.  Why Seabourn would choose to “lend out” cumbersome sized plastic bottles at the gangway is beyond me. 

 

This sounds like what I would like.  I travel with a refillable travel bottle.  Fill at no-touch airport fountains.  Filling and bringing sealed glass carafes to the cabin, I can fill my bottle from there. Also, drink water from glasses from the carafe water.  Then replace the empty carafe(s) with new sealed ones. I suspect the cabin attendants are so good, they could quickly figure out who the big water drinkers are ( us) and supply more/faster.

[alwaysonaship]

The bottles were not handed out at the gangway. They were in the rooms. You could take the regular plastic single use small water bottles when you left the ship

[cece50]

5 hours ago, alwaysonaship said:

The bottles were not handed out at the gangway. They were in the rooms. You could take the regular plastic single use small water bottles when you left the ship

Ok....so that makes a difference.  I may have misinterpreted a previous post that said the bottles in question were handed in for the ship to wash.  Not sure....someone said they saw many people drinking from the ones from the gangway....Maybe they were only referring to the large cabin carafes which are plastic...I still don’t like rewashed plastic in cabin carafes.  Conventional wisdom is the plastic of any sort should be washed by hand in hot soapy water.  Extensive high heat will eventually damage even good plastic.  I know it can’t be helped poolside etc....but my drinking water bottled that is sealed & resealed all day is best under my control. 

[cece50]

We have a nice touch less system in our gym.  You just put your bottle on a shelf under a spigot which is housed in a wall mounted cabinet and push a bottom.  Perfect.  There is a diagram to show you what to do......even us seasoned citizens can follow along so that no one touches the spigot.  Works well, we are all happy!

Edited October 7, 2019 by cece50

[Joc123]

Obviously things are different on Quest.

we are currently on Ovation and I can assure you the new water bottles are the only ones available at the gangway. People can take them when they leave the ship and leave on another table when they return.

As I commented earlier I found them heavy to carry on tour so we bought some lightweight insulated bottles and now fill them with chilled water in our suite before we leave the ship - the reusable bottles are the only ones in the suites.

We don’t have a problem with this but there have been rumblings onboard.

 

[cruiseej]

17 hours ago, cece50 said:

Conventional wisdom is the plastic of any sort should be washed by hand in hot soapy water.  Extensive high heat will eventually damage even good plastic.

 

I don't think that "conventional wisdom" is correct. There are all sorts of plastics used to make bottles. Some, like the ones being deployed on cruise ships, are designed to be washed in high temperature commercial dishwashers repeatedly with no degradation.

 

The weight and size issue for shore excursions -- the .75 liter reusable bottles, versus the .5 liter lightweight single use bottles -- is definitely going to be an issue for some passengers, especially those who don't typically take a backpack, camera bag, or large enough fanny pack to hold the new bottles. It will be interesting to see how this plays out over time. The cruise lines will need to accumulate experience about how many get lost/broken/damaged while being sued off-ship. Until now, these systems have been used primarily in gyms, hotel pools and guest rooms, so there probably hasn't been a size/weight issue. I wonder whether the cruise lines might be able to get Nordaq/Vero to manufacture smaller bottles for this purpose.

[cece50]

Excerpt from a very recent article in Washington Post....Sept 25....the lengthy article is online....but this caught my eye.  Not losing sleep over this, but I thought it was food for thought for us skeptics.  Lots of interesting theories in the article about the best reusable water bottles.  Needless to say, Grandma is washing those plastic kiddie cups by hand.   Just ordered our Swell water bottles for upcoming cruise on SilverSeas. 

 

Plastic
Most reusable plastic water bottles are manufactured from plastic polymers such as polypropylene and copolyester, which makes them light and durable. (Reusing single-use water bottles, which are often made from No. 1 or PET plastic, isn’t advised because repeated use can break down the material, which could allow bacteria to build up in cracks, and washing in hot water can cause chemical leaching.)
Many reusable plastic bottles are advertised as free of the chemical bisphenol A (BPA), which was commonly used in plastics until studies linked it to hormonal disruptions in humans. (The Food and Drug Administration has said that BPA is safe at low levels.) “Most plastic bottles today are not using BPA. There’s no health reason to consume it,” Swartzberg said. “The problem is they’ve replaced BPA with other things, so we don’t know about these other things that they’ve replaced them with.”
Until more research has been done on these alternatives, R. Thomas Zoeller, an endocrinologist and professor at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst who has studied the chemical effects of BPA extensively, recommends glass or metal over plastic bottles. Although the effects of bisphenol S, a compound often used instead of BPA, haven’t really been studied in humans, some animal studies have suggested that it could be disruptive.
If you do use a plastic water bottle, even if it’s labeled as BPA-free, Zoeller suggests hand washing it because the combination of heat and detergent, which acts as an abrasive, can score the plastic.
“It’s a combination of the abrasive and the temperature, and those two things are going to enhance leaching,” Zoeller said. “All plastics that are going to be reused need to be washed by hand. As a rule I wouldn’t put plastics in the microwave or dishwasher, period.”

 

Edited October 9, 2019 by cece50

[Covepointcruiser]

Do they still have plastic straws on Seabourn?    Guess we will have to cope with the changes relating to plastics.   I will remember to bring my own refillable bottle.   Everyone is being pressured to cut the use of plastic that are not reusable so we won’t escape that even on luxury cruises.

[cece50]

11 hours ago, Covepointcruiser said:

Do they still have plastic straws on Seabourn?    Guess we will have to cope with the changes relating to plastics.   I will remember to bring my own refillable bottle.   Everyone is being pressured to cut the use of plastic that are not reusable so we won’t escape that even on luxury cruises.

Yes,  I agree.  As long as the ship’s water supply is safe....taste is another thing.....we will travel with our own Swell reusable bottles & keep them clean with a small bottle of dish detergent that we will pack.  If the taste is awful, we will buy some larger bottled water at the ports to refill our own bottles.  

[texanaust]

On 10/15/2019 at 12:08 AM, Covepointcruiser said:

Do they still have plastic straws on Seabourn?    Guess we will have to cope with the changes relating to plastics.   I will remember to bring my own refillable bottle.   Everyone is being pressured to cut the use of plastic that are not reusable so we won’t escape that even on luxury cruises.

Nope.  They do have paper ones, but you have to ask.  They have also switched to wood stirrers.  

[Covepointcruiser]

I will be sure to bring my own reusable straws on our April crossing.   Thanks for the info in the paper straws.

 

[texanaust]

The paper straws are okay if you drink quickly and rotate the straw half way through.  Still better than having half your drink slop into your lap with no straw.  

[margbem]

We have just disembarked the Odyssey after 15 nights. We never saw anything but the new bottles at the gangway. We took them with us if we were on a ship's trip because we could leave them on the bus. For other usage they were just too big and heavy to carry around. We bought a small plastic bottle of water each on shore and refilled it each day from the chilled bottle in our fridge if we wanted to take it ashore. The necks on the new bottles are very wide and both of us ended up with spills down our fronts from drinking from them.

 

Only paper straws and wooden stirrers were ever provided in our drinks on board the ship.

[AlexsDogPound]

We were just on the Odyssey and disembarked in Rome last week. Both my wife and I had no issues at all with the water bottles. We felt they were perfect and had no problems carrying them ashore. 

[Focused1]

Having disembarked from the Ovation on September 28, I can say that I am not a fan of the reusable bottles of water provided at the disembarkation point on tour. These bottles are large and bulky. I would say that about half of the passengers took these bottles on their excursions. Those that did, complained about the taste of the water and the size of the bottles.  And, in some cases, those who took them on their excursions either disposed of empty bottles while on excursions rather than carry the empty bottle all day, or left them on the bus. Not sure how this solves any environmental issues. As for us, we passed and purchased smaller bottled water on shore. 

[frantic36]

I found taking our own insulated water flask in July works well. Especially using chilled  water. Helps the environment and the ice water kept us cooler.

[Isklaar]

Can one of the posters who has been on board recently please clarify something for me.

 

i believe that under this new system, water bottles/carafes supplied to the suite are not sealed. If that is the case, are they at least brought to the suite with some sort of stopper in the top or are the delivered completely open at the top? 

[DocJames]

43 minutes ago, Isklaar said:

Can one of the posters who has been on board recently please clarify something for me.

 

i believe that under this new system, water bottles/carafes supplied to the suite are not sealed. If that is the case, are they at least brought to the suite with some sort of stopper in the top or are the delivered completely open at the top? 

Just off the Ovation.  The water that was brought to my suite was the same size water bottle that is placed on the table as one departs the ship. It is not in carafes.  So, yes, it has a screw on/off cap.  Two of these are replaced everyday (and the stewardess places it on the bed table in the evening).

[Isklaar]

3 minutes ago, DocJames said:

Just off the Ovation.  The water that was brought to my suite was the same size water bottle that is placed on the table as one departs the ship. It is not in carafes.  So, yes, it has a screw on/off cap.  Two of these are replaced everyday (and the stewardess places it on the bed table in the evening).

 

Thank you, this is very helpful.