Norwegian Unresponsive to the Coronavirus in Asia

[ARandomTraveler]

10 minutes ago, MoniMommy said:

@ARandomTraveler Wouldn't regular trip insurance cover not going because of a cold as long as the Dr completed the form that you must provide to cancel because of illness? Colds are contagious. The cruise line health form even asks if you have has a runny nose in the past X days. Runny nose is a common cold sympton.

 

8 minutes ago, ARandomTraveler said:

I don’t think colds are covered, but I could be wrong. I think it has to be a major medical reason, one that prevents you from traveling (surgery, heart attack, pregnancy), whereas a cold just makes travel unpleasant, but does not put you at risk. I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure colds are not covered under regular insurance.

I just read the medical coverage portion of my cancel for any reason policy, which I assume is the same or similar to the regular trip insurance policy, and it specifies that medical cancellation has to be for a “covered” medical reason that prevents a person from participating in the planned vacation. I think one would be hard pressed to convince a doctor to claim a cold makes someone unable to fly or cruise, or that an insurance company would refund someone’s money because someone says they have a cold. The cruiseline May want to quarantine you to your room, but it doesn’t prevent you from getting on the ship, and is unlikely to qualify you for a refund.

 

the CFAR policy would give you 75% of your money back though, and might give you 100% under the “trip interruption” or “quarantine”  portion of the policy.  

Edited February 10, 2020 by ARandomTraveler

[MoniMommy]

8 minutes ago, ARandomTraveler said:

I don’t think colds are covered, but I could be wrong. I think it has to be a major medical reason, one that prevents you from traveling (surgery, heart attack, pregnancy), whereas a cold just makes travel unpleasant, but does not put you at risk. I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure colds are not covered under regular insurance.

Just read my policy. Seems open to interpretation. Here is what it says about covered cancellation for illness. Would you reas this to mean that if a doctor certifies a "medically imposed restriction" that would be sufficient? A cold for email is not serious but since it is contagious a dr could impose a restriction that you not go. On my last cruise I I specifically remember the health ask if anyone has experienced the following X symptoms. One was a runny noise. I thought to myself would they deny someone boarding for that. My 7 year old has a runny noise several months out of the year.

 

Any serious Injury, death, or Sickness;
(1) Occurring to You or a Traveling Companion, a Family Member
traveling with You, that is so disabling as to cause a reasonable 
person to cancel or interrupt their Trip or which results in 
medically imposed restrictions as certified by a Physician at the 
time of Loss preventing your continued participation in the Trip;

[ARandomTraveler]

Just now, MoniMommy said:

Just read my policy. Seems open to interpretation. Here is what it says about covered cancellation for illness. Would you reas this to mean that if a doctor certifies a "medically imposed restriction" that would be sufficient? A cold for email is not serious but since it is contagious a dr could impose a restriction that you not go. On my last cruise I I specifically remember the health ask if anyone has experienced the following X symptoms. One was a runny noise. I thought to myself would they deny someone boarding for that. My 7 year old has a runny noise several months out of the year.

 

Any serious Injury, death, or Sickness;
(1) Occurring to You or a Traveling Companion, a Family Member
traveling with You, that is so disabling as to cause a reasonable 
person to cancel or interrupt their Trip or which results in 
medically imposed restrictions as certified by a Physician at the 
time of Loss preventing your continued participation in the Trip;

Maybe if a doctor is willing to write a note stating that they think the cold makes someone unable to travel then it might fall under the “medically imposed” gray area. It would require the doctor to go along with signing their name on an insurance document though, which might be hard to do. 

[ARandomTraveler]

10 minutes ago, MoniMommy said:

Just read my policy. Seems open to interpretation. Here is what it says about covered cancellation for illness. Would you reas this to mean that if a doctor certifies a "medically imposed restriction" that would be sufficient? A cold for email is not serious but since it is contagious a dr could impose a restriction that you not go. On my last cruise I I specifically remember the health ask if anyone has experienced the following X symptoms. One was a runny noise. I thought to myself would they deny someone boarding for that. My 7 year old has a runny noise several months out of the year.

 

Any serious Injury, death, or Sickness;
(1) Occurring to You or a Traveling Companion, a Family Member
traveling with You, that is so disabling as to cause a reasonable 
person to cancel or interrupt their Trip or which results in 
medically imposed restrictions as certified by a Physician at the 
time of Loss preventing your continued participation in the Trip;

The wording on mine says this: 

 

A covered Sickness or Injury involving an Insured, Traveling Companion or Business Partner, or Family Member of an Insured or Traveling Companion which necessitates Medical Treatment at the time of cancellation and results in medically imposed restrictions, as certified by a Legally Qualified Physician, which prevents an Insured’s participation in the Covered Trip;
 

Based on the wording in your coverage, you may be able to get a doctor to say a cold makes you unable to travel, but based on the wording in my coverage I think it would be harder because the doctor has to be willing to say the cold prevents the person from participating in the trip, which is doesn’t, it just makes it unpleasant. 

Edited February 10, 2020 by ARandomTraveler

[MoniMommy]

2 minutes ago, ARandomTraveler said:

Maybe if a doctor is willing to write a note stating that they think the cold makes someone unable to travel then it might fall under the “medically imposed” gray area. It would require the doctor to go along with signing their name on an insurance document though, which might be hard to do. 

Yes, I had a dr sign the form because my daughter had dihera. She said that she would only be contagious to me because I would be the one handling the diapers. But contiguous is contagious so she completed the form on the grounds that it was contagious. Perhaps another doctor would not have signed it. Many illness start off looking like a cold or flu and then become  more with time. I believe the early symptoms of coronavirus mimics a cold then progresses to flu like symptoms and then possibly pneumonia and death. So it's not a stretch that is you have cold symptoms you should not travel as it could actually be more serious especially if there are other underlying conditions. I always buy my trip insurance immediately after booking because the pre existing conditions is waived if you get the insurance with a certain amount of days after making deposit. Of course policies differ but I always make sure pre existing conditions are included. I dont have any but I dont want to go through the hassle of proving the condition was not preexisting.

[MoniMommy]

4 minutes ago, ARandomTraveler said:

The wording on mine says this: 

 

A covered Sickness or Injury involving an Insured, Traveling Companion or Business Partner, or Family Member of an Insured or Traveling Companion which necessitates Medical Treatment at the time of cancellation and results in medically imposed restrictions, as certified by a Legally Qualified Physician, which prevents an Insured’s participation in the Covered Trip;
 

Based on the wording in your coverage, you may be able to get a doctor to say a cold makes you unable to travel, but based on the wording in my coverage I think it would be harder because the doctor has to be willing to say the cold prevents the person from participating in the trip, which is doesn’t, it just makes it unpleasant. 

Yes, your policy uses the word AND. Mine uses OR. The condition has to be serious OR result in medically imposed restrictions. Yours says it has to be serious AND results in medically imposed restrictions.

[ARandomTraveler]

5 minutes ago, MoniMommy said:

Yes, I had a dr sign the form because my daughter had dihera. She said that she would only be contagious to me because I would be the one handling the diapers. But contiguous is contagious so she completed the form on the grounds that it was contagious. Perhaps another doctor would not have signed it. Many illness start off looking like a cold or flu and then become  more with time. I believe the early symptoms of coronavirus mimics a cold then progresses to flu like symptoms and then possibly pneumonia and death. So it's not a stretch that is you have cold symptoms you should not travel as it could actually be more serious especially if there are other underlying conditions. I always buy my trip insurance immediately after booking because the pre existing conditions is waived if you get the insurance with a certain amount of days after making deposit. Of course policies differ but I always make sure pre existing conditions are included. I dont have any but I dont want to go through the hassle of proving the condition was not preexisting.

Good point about the pre-existing condition thing. There’s usually a “look back” period in the policy which says the insurance company can look at your medical history for a certain amount of time to see if you had any reason to believe you might be medically unable to travel at the time you bought the insurance. So if you’d been to the doctor with symptoms of a medical problem, they may decline a claim because they’ll say “we see you went to the doctor a month before buying this policy with heart palpitations so you should have known you had a heart condition that might keep you from traveling.” 

 

I think you’re lucky to have gotten the diarrhea note from your doctor. Not sure you could get the same one for a cold but who knows. I like the CFAR insurance because there’s no wondering involved.

Edited February 10, 2020 by ARandomTraveler

[EDLOS]

Yikes, all you have to do when you are over 65 or have other immunity issues is have your Doctor state for various reasons, urinary tract problems, possible respitory problems etc.,etc. at your age that He/she states that in their (doctors) opinion, you should not be exposed to the dangers inherent on leaving home at this time. There is no challenge to your Doctor's opinion, it is what it is ! The Doctor does not mention Coronavirus at all, as it is a valid reason not to be exposed to many possible illnesses. "Whose your Doctor"

[MoniMommy]

Yes, I do think you could reasonably get a doctor's note stating a specific illness that prevents your from traveling especially from your family doctor. But you have to reas the policy to make sure there is not a re existing conditions exclusion and the specific language of what is covered. Things like and vs or could make a difference in what is covered.

[ARandomTraveler]

 

7 minutes ago, EDLOS said:

Yikes, all you have to do when you are over 65 or have other immunity issues is have your Doctor state for various reasons, urinary tract problems, possible respitory problems etc.,etc. at your age that He/she states that in their (doctors) opinion, you should not be exposed to the dangers inherent on leaving home at this time. There is no challenge to your Doctor's opinion, it is what it is ! The Doctor does not mention Coronavirus at all, as it is a valid reason not to be exposed to many possible illnesses. "Whose your Doctor"

 

4 minutes ago, MoniMommy said:

Yes, I do think you could reasonably get a doctor's note stating a specific illness that prevents your from traveling especially from your family doctor. But you have to reas the policy to make sure there is not a re existing conditions exclusion and the specific language of what is covered. Things like and vs or could make a difference in what is covered.

Agree with @MoniMommy. My first thought was the pre existing conditions clause as well. And I also think the medical issue itself (the urinary tract infection or respiratory problem) has to be the issue that makes you unable to travel, not the potential of coming across a virus that makes that medical problem worse. 

Edited February 10, 2020 by ARandomTraveler

[MoniMommy]

With everything your milage may vary. If the doctor certifies that you cant travel and your insurance recognizes that as a valid reason for canceling you have a claim. If the dr will certify it and you have decided not to travel in any event, it could not hurt to submit the claim. Nothing beats a failure but a try.

[Atgatsea]

Passengers on Celebrity, Carnival, Royal Caribbean, etc. are not having to spend their valuable time reviewing the fine print of travel insurance policies because they were offered refunds/credits.  These people are using this time to plan replacement trips unlike those of us who had the misfortune of booking with miserable Norwegian Cruise Lies.  None of us should need to invoke travel insurance in this situation and the fact that NCL is pointing towards travel insurance knowing this situation would not be covered sounds a lot like double-dipping.  It sounds like they have created a second revenue source by keeping get your fares and travel insurance premiums!  Nice little deal there...plus they are creating artificial demand for more expensive (CFAR) insurance in the future and which will generate even more revenues going forward.  Their hubris is too much!  NCL’s hand wagging its finger at us for not having (worthless) insurance diverts attention from the other hand unjustly holding our money.

Edited February 10, 2020 by Atgatsea

[cruiser man 60]

https://www.cunard.com/en-gb/contact-us/travel-health-advisories

[mugtech]

Wahoo, another insurance thread.

[Atgatsea]

The severity of the outbreak in Singapore is getting worse and Norwegian Cruise Lies needs to see the folly of their ways.  The increased alert level to orange, and everything else occurring in that region, is enough to deter reasonable companies and people from traveling to the hot zone.  NCL, the greedy ostrich with its head in the ground, continues to try to profit by jeopardizing the health and safety of its crew and passengers (definitely not NCL’s #1 priority) when others will not.  It is obvious NCL monitors this thread because they keep posting the same inane posts about safety is our #1 priority blah blah blah.  My ask is that the nameless faceless individual monitoring this forum on behalf of Norwegian Cruise Lies reads the article below and know that the situation in Singapore will get worse and that NCL is assuming so much more risk than they should.  Hopefully, NCL’s risk management group calculates the current risks (not just the risks in April) are more than potential profits and convinces the new management team to is temper their  hubris and to do the right thing by us, the customers they are devoted to serving, which is allowing us the option to cancel/receive refund or take FCC.  
 

There is now a confirmed infection in Singapore’s financial center.  Who knows how many others are also infected and now showing signs?  How can NCL guarantee us that every potentially infected person from Singapore (which could be an enormous number) who does not exhibit a fever of 100.3 degrees by 2/17, is prevented from boarding the Jade?  Think about that NCL executives!

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/news/singapore-braces-as-coronavirus-cases-emerge-in-financial-center/ar-BBZPBMu

[disneylover89]

New York doesn't have Cancel for Any Reason trip insurance.  

[mjkacmom]

5 hours ago, Atgatsea said:

Passengers on Celebrity, Carnival, Royal Caribbean, etc. are not having to spend their valuable time reviewing the fine print of travel insurance policies because they were offered refunds/credits.  These people are using this time to plan replacement trips unlike those of us who had the misfortune of booking with miserable Norwegian Cruise Lies.  None of us should need to invoke travel insurance in this situation and the fact that NCL is pointing towards travel insurance knowing this situation would not be covered sounds a lot like double-dipping.  It sounds like they have created a second revenue source by keeping get your fares and travel insurance premiums!  Nice little deal there...plus they are creating artificial demand for more expensive (CFAR) insurance in the future and which will generate even more revenues going forward.  Their hubris is too much!  NCL’s hand wagging its finger at us for not having (worthless) insurance diverts attention from the other hand unjustly holding our money.

The insurance from NCL is an independent company, NCL doesn’t get the premiums.

[Masekr11]

Could we possible move the insurance discussion/debate to a separate thread?  A lot of upcoming Jade passengers come to this thread for updates regarding the current and upcoming Jade sailings, updates on the Coronavirus in impacted ports, and other information that could impact our sailings. It’s hard to follow the updates when there are several pages on insurance discussions. 

[JCopp]

135 confirmed cases of coronavirus on the Diamond Princess. My question is when a situation like this happens on the Jade. After all the concern expressed from its passengers. When Norwegian Cruise Lies forces us to cruise or loose all our money. Again after other cruise lines have chosen to do right by their customers. When do we take over ownership of the boat? There isnt a jury live that is this is going make a judgement in their favor!! 

[mking8288]

Folks, can we "all" try to make an effort to stay on track and not derail or hijack the main discussion/topics/themes, please !!   ... without doing long quotes ("snip" the key points/text/phrase/sentence and/or posters).  Imagine if you are following this or similar thread on a smartphone, iPhone or similar mobile device - trying to scroll, follow & read important updates.  

 

That, or start a continuation thread to post/share/update with important news, info, discussion on NCL responses, lack thereof, etc.  I have been following a # of Princess threads to try to stay informed, current and it is not helpful with long replies about insurance, what they are & how "I" might handled it.   Feel free to disagree, there is no need to comment further but you can always click the "Like" or "Ha Ha" or "Thanks" button - and, just move on.  

 

My long "rant" is done - going to post something a bit more serious next. 

[LAnn]

In reading through these posts, a poem by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow comes to mind, with the lines, "...when she was good she was very, very good, and when she was bad she was horrid." This seems to be NCL. My family has taken the most wonderful cruises on NCL to Hawaii and the Western Caribbean (out of New Orleans), once in the Haven which was amazing. They have an excellent kid's program, and my husband rates this as one of his favorite cruise lines, along with Royal Caribbean. But our experiences have all been with U.S. based travel. It seems that if something goes wrong with a cruise outside the U.S., NCL will not have your back.

 

I came to this board because my family is planning a northern European cruise this summer and we had settled on a rather unique Norwegian Star itinerary. After reading all of these posts I desperately began searching for another cruise line with a similar itinerary, and fortunately found an alternative with Holland America. 

 

Personally, I would be happy with NCL's offer in this situation and the revised itinerary, but that is just me. I am so sorry for all of you who are caught up in this horrible situation; I know you've invested a lot of money and time in planning this trip, and instead of a fun, educational and enjoyable experience you are subjected to all of this stress. The periodic updates from NCL expressing concern for the safety and well-being of their passengers while all these people are freaking out is discordant and bizarre. 

 

Last year, following a Celebrity cruise through the Mediterranean, my daughter and I went to Paris and signed up for a semi-private tour of the Louvre. It just so happened that the others on the tour were a family that were wandering through Europe on an improvised itinerary after their Norwegian Jade Med cruise was cancelled due to mechanical problems. They had planned their cruise for months, taken time off from work, spent a lot of money, and now found themselves trying to make the best of the situation with little support from NCL. It was just stressful and not what they signed up for. It made me shudder to think that we could have been on that NCL cruise if it had worked with the timing of other plans we had in Europe. 

 

I wish you the best and hope NCL does the right thing for you. 

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by LAnn
typo

[mking8288]

First, this is one the latest news - came from the Princess thread - reporting by BBC News, just a short while ago (Mon. Feb 10th, 2020) 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51447761

 

Medical lab facility temporary closed - a staff member (employee/worker) at a UK/Britain lab doing virus testing, apparently, tested positive for coronavirus - how did this tester got exposed in a lab setting.

 

This is a little troublesome as news about the # of infected individuals on the quarantined Princess increased overnight by more than 60 - and, not everyone on the ship being tested (refer to posts above) 

 

Third, maybe unrelated - additional cases confirmed in Singapore, at a popular shopping mall/retail complex.  One is an officer that served 2 quarantine orders on 2 that tested positive for the virus.  Additional details, latest - link is here -

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/coronavirus-2-new-cases-in-singapore-including-certis-cisco-staff-who-had-served

 

Meanwhile, all of the suspected cases in the New York/New Jersey area last week had turned out to be false alarms, negative on the virus (thus far) but in some instances, confirmed for the "seasonal" flu or influenza  ... common cold, perhaps with symptoms mistaken.  

 

#  #  #

 

No live news/updates from anyone currently sailing on the Jade - ship was in Cambodia if I'm not mistaken, en route to its port stops in Vietnam - before returning to Singapore later in the week.   

 

I am sure that those on the next sailing, and there is an active Roll Call, following and very interested in what's going on this week - besides getting official updates from NCL channels.  

 

Let's see if we can all try to channel & help focus discussion, themes, info & topics relating to the current & next Jade sailing ... (my suggestions only, of course) and/or to start a new "dedicated" thread, freshly - with a link/continuation to this one.  

[luv2kroooz]

7 hours ago, cruiser man 60 said:

https://www.cunard.com/en-gb/contact-us/travel-health-advisories

Thank you for posting this message from Cunard. The below underlined items are really where I think NCL misses the mark.

 

From Cunard ...

We are very closely monitoring and assessing the impact of the latest developments and health advisories, as well as various travel and entry restrictions which are increasingly impacting ship itineraries and connecting travel. We are actively seeking to mitigate these risks to our guests and crew

.

 

1. Cunard acknowledges that travel and entry restrictions keep changing which makes planning any itinerary challenging. Entry requirements keep changing so reaching the ship in short order is also impractical.

 

2. NCL isn't really doing anything to mitigate these risks to the guests. They are basically just saying we are operating the cruise, we reserve the right to make changes at any time in our sole discretion, and you'll need to adapt to them once we announce them. We will pay reasonable change fees.

 

Other lines are saying, you don't have to adapt to them, and we will understand. If you don't want to adapt to our decision, you don't have to. You have the option of receiving a refund or credit and joining us again on a future cruise.

 

It really is a nice gesture that most of the cruiselines are doing this. They could do what NCL is doing and be well within the contracts that passengers are required to sign and acknowledge. And airlines and hotels are doing the same, for the most part.

 

[Masekr11]

23 minutes ago, LAnn said:

 

Personally, I would be happy with NCL's offer in this situation and the revised itinerary, but that is just me.

 

It’s not as simple as a revised itinerary though. Would you be happy paying extreme airfare changes without NCL guaranteeing they would reimburse you?  Would you be happy with sailing on a ship that has allowed passengers from the hot zones on and possibly contaminating the ship? Keep in mind, it takes 14 days for the virus to present its self, meaning we wouldn’t know about contamination until around 2/20 when we would already be sailing. Would you be happy sailing out of a port that has more confirmed cases than the original port and in NCL’s words isn’t safe to travel to (based on their decision to cancel April sailings)?

 

As a passenger scheduled on the 2/17 Jade, I appreciate your empathy and it certainly makes me feel better knowing independent people understand where we are coming from. I wish it was as simple of a changed port but unfortunately it’s not. And I feel like that’s a main problem with NCL. They seem to think that changing the embarkation port and implementing less than stellar health screenings is sufficient and don’t realize the downstream effects and risks that still exist. 

Edited February 10, 2020 by Masekr11

[LAnn]

Hi Maeskr11, I get it. It's a horrible situation, and NCL's non-existent customer service is outrageous. They should absolutely have given everyone the option of at least a future cruise credit from the moment this virus became an issue.