Norwegian Unresponsive to the Coronavirus in Asia

[Masekr11]

47 minutes ago, hamrag said:

Is that comment because you cannot stomach the fact that NCL have (arguably belatedly) responded with a solution, and recompense, that seems (to me at least) to be proportionate and fair?

I fail to see how this is fair. Rebooking a new flight or changing an existing flight is extremely expensive on such short notice. NCL is not committing to what they deem to be “reasonable” compensation nor are they offering a firm amount they will compensate you with. To change my flight, it would cost over $2,000 and NCL is refusing to say if they consider that reasonable (I highly doubt they would pay that). The 10% refund is only applicable if you actually go on the cruise. If you cancel, you only get your taxes and port fees back. Sure they legally can do this, but as someone else said, it’s not ethical and definitely not fair. 

Edited February 5, 2020 by Masekr11

[BaWBarmy]

1 hour ago, blcruising said:

It has been reported that Singapore has the second highest number of confirmed cases of the coronavirus.

 

China 24,363

Japan 34

Singapore 28

Thailand 25

Republic of Korea 18

Australia 14

Germany 12

 

Source : WHO Novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) situation as of 05 February 2020, 16:00 (CET)

[luv2kroooz]

51 minutes ago, hamrag said:

Is that comment because you cannot stomach the fact that NCL have (arguably belatedly) responded with a solution, and recompense, that seems (to me at least) to be proportionate and fair?

I've done my research. Frankly, I think the solution presented stinks. Please allow me to explain why before you jump on me.

 

According to the revised itinerary they've posted, they've shortened the cruise by one night.... instead of leaving Monday at 5pm, they're leaving on Tuesday at 5am. They haven't advised when boarding actually is expected to happen. Passengers are now required to try to find a flight to Singapore instead of Hong Kong at this late date. They say they will reimburse all air change fees, but as is so often the case, it is poorly worded. Are they talking only the change fee or do would they consider the fare increase to be a fee associated with changing the flight.

 

So, they've shortened the cruise by one night, have customers scrambling to find airfare, and in exchange they are giving a 10% refund and a 25% future cruise credit. Wow, how generous of NCL to do that. If I am misinterpreting something, then I may revise my negative comment, but this is how I feel.

[smplybcause]

1 hour ago, Masekr11 said:

Wondering the same thing. My flights were completely canceled so I have no change and would have to book new flights which is extremely expensive on such short notice. I’m calling NCL to try and get more clarification about times and what they consider reasonable air changes. 

 

Have you called the airline? Or did you already accept the refund? Usually with cancellations you have the option to change the flight or receive a refund. Unless the airline has stopped flying to Singapore too, I would think you might be able to switch it. 

 

Also look into your travel insurance. Flights being canceled with 10 days before your travel might be covered to either rebook or refund the entire trip. 

[JetsetCruiser]

They just sent out a correctd itinerary showing Singapore departure on Monday 5pm

[ppcox]

10 minutes ago, JetsetCruiser said:

They just sent out a correctd itinerary showing Singapore departure on Monday 5pm

MONDAY not the Tuesday where is this corrected itinerary do you have copy ? I’m trying to book flights and NCL Europe know nothing about the changes she actually looked at Cruise Critic to read the changed itinerary!! Currently I’m been quoted £1200 to change the flights !!

[hamrag]

44 minutes ago, Masekr11 said:

I fail to see how this is fair. Rebooking a new flight or changing an existing flight is extremely expensive on such short notice. NCL is not committing to what they deem to be “reasonable” compensation nor are they offering a firm amount they will compensate you with. To change my flight, it would cost over $2,000 and NCL is refusing to say if they consider that reasonable (I highly doubt they would pay that). The 10% refund is only applicable if you actually go on the cruise. If you cancel, you only get your taxes and port fees back. Sure they legally can do this, but as someone else said, it’s not ethical and definitely not fair. 

 

You omit the fact that a 25% FCC is also being offered. That is significant compensation, and can be used for any length of cruise. A few years ago, the POA refit was delayed by a couple of days which shortened the 10 night cruise from San Fran to Honolulu. The 25% FCC granted was used by some against the longest cruise that NCL were offering at that time.

 

All opinion of course but, based on the facts I have read, my opinion has not changed....sorry!

[Atgatsea]

43 minutes ago, Masekr11 said:

I fail to see how this is fair. Rebooking a new flight or changing an existing flight is extremely expensive on such short notice. NCL is not committing to what they deem to be “reasonable” compensation nor are they offering a firm amount they will compensate you with. To change my flight, it would cost over $2,000 and NCL is refusing to say if they consider that reasonable (I highly doubt they would pay that). The 10% refund is only applicable if you actually go on the cruise. If you cancel, you only get your taxes and port fees back. Sure they legally can do this, but as someone else said, it’s not ethical and definitely not fair. 

Thanks for keeping us up to date with NCL’s response  Their offer is completely ridiculous because you only receive their token offer if you still go this cruise that now has a materially altered itinerary.  One of the main reasons I chose this cruise (way back) was because I wanted to see Hong Kong.  NCL should be trying to make the customer experience as pleasant as possible - this is their business.  Those of us who have been impacted and aggravated already should receive either a refund/credit so that we can decide if we still want to go on this problematic cruise with a diminished itinerary.  I find it curious that they are offering “reasonable” (whatever that means) reimbursement of flight change fees after most flights were already cancelled meaning we would not incur a change fee but rather have to eat the difference between the cost of a ticket purchased well in advance and the sky-high costs of a last minute ticket.  I doubt it.

[debshomespun]

The only reason NCL changed the sailings for the NCL Jade is because Hong Kong closed the cruise port.  This forced NCL to change the itinerary for the Jade.

 

It's not going to be easy for people to make changes to their travel plans.  Many probably have non refundable hotel stays in Hong Kong.  And last minute air fare is very expensive.

 

Definitely turning into a big mess.

 

Just because they are taking temperatures in Airports and Cruise Terminals doesn't mean they are controlling the spread of the virus.  Just a mask until possible symptoms can appear up to 14 days.

 

 

[ppcox]

As someone sailing on the Jade on the 17th ( 18th) I’m happy with the10% and 25% off a future cruise. I’m relieved not to be sailing from HongKong. 

[Islandbouy]

We are cruising with NCL on the Star this March.  Ncl gave us the 25% FCC. for changing and canceling the ports we were to visit.  The port change was made after final payment.  What they don't mention is that the FCC cruise is only good for 1 year from the original cruise.  You can't book a cruise and then travel later than 1 year from original sail date.

This is fine with people that cruise often but we don't, and the 25% FCC may be worthless to us.

[smplybcause]

13 minutes ago, hamrag said:

 

You omit the fact that a 25% FCC is also being offered. That is significant compensation, and can be used for any length of cruise. A few years ago, the POA refit was delayed by a couple of days which shortened the 10 night cruise from San Fran to Honolulu. The 25% FCC granted was used by some against the longest cruise that NCL were offering at that time.

 

All opinion of course but, based on the facts I have read, my opinion has not changed....sorry!

 

Yeah, that's not how FCC works. They give you a cert worth 25% of the fare on the cruise that had the problem. They don't give you 25% off any cruise you want. Though the 25% of the fare of the problem cruise can be used towards any cruise. And before you yell Royal uses the exact same method with their FCC. 

[Masekr11]

9 minutes ago, hamrag said:

 

You omit the fact that a 25% FCC is also being offered. That is significant compensation, and can be used for any length of cruise. A few years ago, the POA refit was delayed by a couple of days which shortened the 10 night cruise from San Fran to Honolulu. The 25% FCC granted was used by some against the longest cruise that NCL were offering at that time.

 

All opinion of course but, based on the facts I have read, my opinion has not changed....sorry!

25% credit IF you take the cruise. So I pay an extraordinary amount of money to change my flight and NCL probably will not come close to reimbursing me and I get 25% off a future cruise on this horrible cruise line?  How wonderful of them...

[Maya1234]

We literally just had a meeting today to discuss whether contracts of carriage like NCL’s permit them to change the embarkation port. It’s very clear they can change things in almost every other way but it is not clear from a legal standpoint that they change port of departure. Very interesting discussion 

 

[luv2kroooz]

27 minutes ago, ppcox said:

As someone sailing on the Jade on the 17th ( 18th) I’m happy with the10% and 25% off a future cruise. I’m relieved not to be sailing from HongKong. 

Why? Because of the virus or do you just not like Hong Kong? I thought Singapore had more cases than Hong Kong.

[NutsAboutGolf]

6 minutes ago, Maya1234 said:

We literally just had a meeting today to discuss whether contracts of carriage like NCL’s permit them to change the embarkation port. It’s very clear they can change things in almost every other way but it is not clear from a legal standpoint that they change port of departure. Very interesting discussion 

 

 

This doesn't appear accurate; this can't possibly be the first time this has happened (and won't be the last either)

 

Below is under NCL FAQ, would need to check your contract but the FAQs states "itinerary changes" which would cover embarkment and disembarkment.  

 

https://www.ncl.com/about/additional-terms-and-conditions

 

"Itinerary Changes
In the event of strikes, lockouts, stoppages of labor, riots, weather conditions, mechanical difficulties or any other reason whatsoever, Norwegian Cruise Line has the right to cancel, advance, postpone or substitute any scheduled sailing or itinerary without prior notice. Norwegian Cruise Line shall not be responsible for failure to adhere to published arrival and departure times for any of its ports of call. Norwegian Cruise Line may, but is not obliged to, substitute another vessel for any sailing and cannot be liable for any loss to passengers by reason of such cancellation, advancement, postponement or substitution. Reservations are subject to change or cancellation in the event of a full-ship charter, and in such event, NCL shall refund all passage moneys paid by the passenger."

[ppcox]

20 minutes ago, blcruising said:

Why? Because of the virus or do you just not like Hong Kong? I thought Singapore had more cases than Hong Kong.

I have never been to Hong Kong so I don't know if I like it. I was really looking forward to discovering it and had a room booked at the Intercontinental and lots of plans.But increasingly it become apparent that it wasn't going to be the enjoyable visit we envision. Increasingly tourist attractions were closing and using mass transport ,visiting markets even wearing our face masks seem to be unnecessary risks. 

Pressure from work colleagues ( Intensive Care Consultants) friends and of course family saying don't go.We have weighed up all the risks and up to today we were definitely going. Events  today have removed that possibility. So when the new itinerary came out I was relieved it seemed the most sensible solution even though its disappointing. Happily the other ports aren’t altered so the bookings we have made in Bangkok and Singapore are still possible.

We will be taking precautions during the whole trip and I am aware of the numbers infected in Singapore and Thailand. 

[hamrag]

56 minutes ago, smplybcause said:

 

Yeah, that's not how FCC works. They give you a cert worth 25% of the fare on the cruise that had the problem. They don't give you 25% off any cruise you want. Though the 25% of the fare of the problem cruise can be used towards any cruise. And before you yell Royal uses the exact same method with their FCC. 

Actually it is how FCC worked for the cruise I mentioned, perhaps they have changed the rules following that experience! Oh, and why would I yell Royal?? 😁

[NLH Arizona]

51 minutes ago, Masekr11 said:

25% credit IF you take the cruise. So I pay an extraordinary amount of money to change my flight and NCL probably will not come close to reimbursing me and I get 25% off a future cruise on this horrible cruise line?  How wonderful of them...

If you think about it, they want to give this to their customers and if you don't use the 25% off a future cruise, then it wouldn't cost them for folks that aren't going to cruise with them.

[hamrag]

2 minutes ago, ppcox said:

I have never been to Hong Kong so I don't know if I like it. I was really looking forward to discovering it and had a room booked at the Intercontinental and lots of plans.But increasingly it become apparent that it wasn't going to be the enjoyable visit we envision. Increasingly tourist attractions were closing and using mass transport ,visiting markets even wearing our face masks seem to be unnecessary risks. 

Pressure from work colleagues ( Intensive Care Consultants) friends and of course family saying don't go.We have weighed up all the risks and up to today we were definitely going. Events  today have removed that possibility. So when the new itinerary came out I was relieved it seemed the most sensible solution even though its disappointing. Happily the other ports aren’t altered so the bookings we have made in Bangkok and Singapore are still possible.

We will be taking precautions during the whole trip and I am aware of the numbers infected in Singapore and Thailand. 

Great attitude, when life throws lemons you make lemonade...well done.

[Maya1234]

“This doesn't appear accurate; this can't possibly be the first time this has happened (and won't be the last either)”

 

 

The law is a great deal more complicated than you seem to understand. For example did you know that “any other reason whatsoever “ has been interpreted by a myriad of courts NOT to mean “any reason”? The reason must be “ like such as” the listed reasons. (I’m not saying the closing of the port does not qualify) ...just that language in a contract is nowhere near as cut and dry as you might imagine. Is a “ port of call” a embarkation port? Probably not given that adhesion contracts like this are interpreted against NCL. Whether “ substituting a scheduled sailing” equates to completely changing the departure point is a more  open question. Could they change a sailing from NYC to a departure from Greece? Seems pretty clear not so where is the line drawn? Not clear.  Our research shows that cruise lines haven’t wanted to have a ruling on the books on  this and have settled out of court when pushed by legal counsel. 

Edited February 5, 2020 by Maya1234

[NLH Arizona]

Just now, hamrag said:

Great attitude, when life throws lemons you make lemonade...well done.

I totally agree, sometimes it is worth the risk.

 

I went to Egypt right after the slaughter of tourists at Queen Hatshepsut's temple.  My bosses told me not to go and I even got a letter from the State Department advising me not to go.  I went and had the most fantastic time, as nothing was crowded.

[NutsAboutGolf]

39 minutes ago, Maya1234 said:

“This doesn't appear accurate; this can't possibly be the first time this has happened (and won't be the last either)”

 

 

The law is a great deal more complicated than you seem to understand. For example did you know that “any other reason whatsoever “ has been interpreted by a myriad of courts NOT to mean “any reason”? The reason must be “ like such as” the listed reasons. (I’m not saying the closing of the port does not qualify) ...just that language in a contract is nowhere near as cut and dry as you might imagine. Is a “ port of call” a embarkation port? Probably not given that adhesion contracts like this are interpreted against NCL. Whether “ substituting a scheduled sailing” equates to completely changing the departure point is a more  open question. Could they change a sailing from NYC to a departure from Greece? Seems pretty clear not so where is the line drawn? Not clear.  Our research shows that cruise lines haven’t wanted to have a ruling on the books on  this and have settled out of court when pushed by legal counsel. 

 

Don't lawyers have free consultations?  If its inevitable you're going to lawyer up, save your time and energy and let the experts get the answers for you.  It would be very surprising that NCL wouldn't protect themselves from the embarkment port.  

Edited February 5, 2020 by NutsAboutGolf

[elwood_98034]

Give it another week or so and the cruise lines will begin cancelling cruises. Ports will start closing themselves off to ships as more people appear as infected on ships, and the ships are refused normal entry. Even air travel is going to start spiralling down rapidly to/from the worst infected areas (not just China). Singapore is going a great job with notifications, but they are smart and well organised. I would suspect that they will be one of the first countries to close their port, and possibly their land border with Malaysia, which last time I looked had zero cases - which is a joke. The cruise lines know what is up. I saw cruises advertised as 50% off yesterday.

This is just the beginning.

[smplybcause]

46 minutes ago, hamrag said:

Actually it is how FCC worked for the cruise I mentioned, perhaps they have changed the rules following that experience! Oh, and why would I yell Royal?? 😁

 

Must have been a long time ago. I've only been cruising NCL for 4 years, but when they offer FCC the % has always been to the cruise that's a reason for why they're giving you the FCC. So if the cruise that's cancelled, changed, or had some other problem costs you $1000 before taxes/etc than a 25% FCC only gives you $250 towards your next cruise.