Urgent - Ruby Princess 3 people infected - Urgent Tracking of Passengers

[Porky55]

Just now, Cruisegroover said:

And too many people pointing blame with the incorrect facts. Now is not the time.

Couldn’t agree more, strange times. Just staying at home and waiting till it all passes. Let’s hope we have a cruise industry when the ‘dust’ clears. 

[OzKiwiJJ]

Just to put things into perspective:

Yes, the Ruby debacle was pretty bad but nobody seems to mention that over 500 cases in NSW alone can be tracked to people arriving by plane from overseas, with no health checks on arrival, nor was there any self-isolation requirement (which there was on the Ruby disembarkation).

[Pushka]

Ruby update. In SA alone we have 25 cases courtesy of Ruby. All but one of our 170 cases relates to overseas arrivals. 

Edited March 25, 2020 by Pushka

[Aus Traveller]

4 minutes ago, Pushka said:

Ruby update. In SA alone we have 25 cases courtesy of Ruby. All but one of our 170 cases relates to overseas arrivals. 

Ultimately, all of the covid-19 cases relate to overseas arrivals - some directly and some second-hand transmissions. 

[OzKiwiJJ]

9 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

Ultimately, all of the covid-19 cases relate to overseas arrivals - some directly and some second-hand transmissions. 

True but we're now getting third-hand and fourth-hand and ... so those probably don't count as overseas-sourced.

[Pushka]

7 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

True but we're now getting third-hand and fourth-hand and ... so those probably don't count as overseas-sourced.

Yes and that's the spread that is the problem now. It's good to see you posting btw, I was a bit worried for a while there!

[OzKiwiJJ]

7 minutes ago, Pushka said:

Yes and that's the spread that is the problem now. It's good to see you posting btw, I was a bit worried for a while there!

I've been posting occasionally. Thanks for caring. 😘

[Aus Traveller]

50 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

True but we're now getting third-hand and fourth-hand and ... so those probably don't count as overseas-sourced.

Yes. That's the worry - third-hand and fourth-hand transmissions.

[MMDown Under]

As of Tuesday, 133 people infected (107 in NSW, 26 interstate) have been diagnosed with the virus after leaving ship on 19/3.

Asoc. Prof. Ying Chang from Uni of Sydney said it was likely that the number of confirmed cases would "double of triple" in next few days.  (Passengers 63% Aus., 20% American and 17% other countries)

4 infected Fri;  26 on Sun;, 48 on Mon; 133 on Tues - scary, isn't it?

the guardian.com 

[Vader1111]

17 hours ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Just to put things into perspective:

Yes, the Ruby debacle was pretty bad but nobody seems to mention that over 500 cases in NSW alone can be tracked to people arriving by plane from overseas, with no health checks on arrival, nor was there any self-isolation requirement (which there was on the Ruby disembarkation).

100% of Australia's coronavirus cases are the result of people arriving by plane from overseas.  Yes, even the Ruby cases.

 

While Ruby Princess acted as a big virus incubator, the disease did not originate on the ship.  It was taken onto the ship by a passenger or crew member.  That person either flew in from overseas, or caught it from someone who did (even if we need to trace back 3 or 4 links along the transmission chain).

Edited March 25, 2020 by Vader1111

[Aus Traveller]

14 minutes ago, Vader1111 said:

100% of Australia's coronavirus cases are the result of people arriving by plane from overseas.  Yes, even the Ruby cases.

 

While Ruby Princess acted as a big virus incubator, the disease did not originate on the ship.  It was taken onto the ship by a passenger or crew member.  That person either flew in from overseas, or caught it from someone who did (even if we need to trace back 3 or 4 links along the transmission chain).

Unfortunately, it isn't possible to exercise 'social distancing' on a cruise ship unless all passengers stay in their cabins. Passengers would get closer to more people on a ship than they would in their normal daily lives - in the lifts, the theatre, during other activities, in the dining room and the buffet. This is an ideal environment for the spread of any virus particularly the very infectious covid-19.

[MicCanberra]

Exactly, the virus had to be caught from someone, it didn't just develop on the ship.

[Vader1111]

Just now, Aus Traveller said:

Unfortunately, it isn't possible to exercise 'social distancing' on a cruise ship unless all passengers stay in their cabins. Passengers would get closer to more people on a ship than they would in their normal daily lives - in the lifts, the theatre, during other activities, in the dining room and the buffet. This is an ideal environment for the spread of any virus particularly the very infectious covid-19.

I love cruising, but when things go wrong on these ships - they really go wrong.  Once a virus gets on board, these things are nothing more than big white virus incubators.

[Vader1111]

There are a few ways I can think of, in which the virus may "originate" on the ship - as distinct from having been taken on board by a passenger or crew member, boarding in Australia.

 

Firstly, it's possible that a passenger or crew member could come into contact with the virus during a port visit.  This was probably not the case with Ruby, or any of the other Australian cruise ships.  New Caledonia, Fiji & Vanuatu are, or at least were, all coronavirus free.  NZ still only had a handful of cases when they closed the borders, so it's unlikely that anyone contracted the virus there.

 

Secondly, it's possible that someone boarded the ship mid-cruise, who was already infected.  The most likely candidates here are the "headliner" performers.  These entertainers often board mid-cruise, stay on board for a few nights, perform, then disembark and fly to their next ship.  Once again though, they are unlikely to have contracted the virus in NZ or the South Pacific islands, so if they were infected, then they most likely caught it in Australia (which brings us back to where we started).

 

Yes, there are a few longer cruises where passengers regularly embark & disembark mid-cruise.  This is how coronavirus got on board the Diamond Princess.  This is not the case for cruises to the South Pacific or NZ, which was the Ruby Princess' destination.

[Pushka]

I think the discussion on how Covid came to be on a cruise ship is moot and not relevant. Once it is there, known or unknown, the very nature of cruises is that it will spread. And the cruise unravels from there.

 

The ship didnt create it, however the very nature of cruises (and that includes a whole realm of opportunities - ranging from cramped crew quarters and shared living and eating areas; people from a huge variety of countries and cultures living in a confined and shared space; visiting other different countries on port stops, and shared excursions and so on) creates the perfect environment for spread, which coupled with limited resources for effective isolation = incubator.

 

As we love our cruises, we try to ignore it. But its there.

[Aus Traveller]

1 minute ago, Pushka said:

I think the discussion on how Covid came to be on a cruise ship is moot and not relevant. Once it is there, known or unknown, the very nature of cruises is that it will spread. And the cruise unravels from there.

 

The ship didnt create it, however the very nature of cruises (and that includes a whole realm of opportunities - ranging from cramped crew quarters and shared living and eating areas; people from a huge variety of countries and cultures living in a confined and shared space; visiting other different countries on port stops, and shared excursions and so on) creates the perfect environment for spread, which coupled with limited resources for effective isolation = incubator.

 

As we love our cruises, we try to ignore it. But its there.

Agreed. We have all seen how the common cold or what some call the "kennel cough" can spread on a ship. I feel the worst places are the lifts and the theatre.

[MMDown Under]

I just learnt that traces of corona virus were found onboard one cruise ship a further 17 days after all the passengers disembarked. CDC Centre for Disease Control 

Interesting finding for B2B cruises of 7 days!

Could this have been the case with Ruby Princess?

 

Alaska cruises season 2020 delayed indefinitely. 

(Sorry can't read my writing Kimyradio.com ?)

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by MMDown Under

[Aus Traveller]

4 minutes ago, MMDown Under said:

I just learnt that traces of corona virus were found onboard one cruise ship a further 17 days after all the passengers disembarked. CDC Centre for Disease Control 

Interesting finding for B2B cruises of 7 days!

Could this have been the case with Ruby Princess?

 

There had been no positive tests coming from the Ruby Princess before it docked in Sydney on 19th March. Clearly someone on board had the virus. Last week it was stated that a couple who flew in from USA might have been the source of the infection. I don't know that this has been confirmed.

[MMDown Under]

19 minutes ago, Vader1111 said:

There are a few ways I can think of, in which the virus may "originate" on the ship - as distinct from having been taken on board by a passenger or crew member, boarding in Australia.

 

Firstly, it's possible that a passenger or crew member could come into contact with the virus during a port visit.  This was probably not the case with Ruby, or any of the other Australian cruise ships.  New Caledonia, Fiji & Vanuatu are, or at least were, all coronavirus free.  NZ still only had a handful of cases when they closed the borders, so it's unlikely that anyone contracted the virus there.

 

Secondly, it's possible that someone boarded the ship mid-cruise, who was already infected.  The most likely candidates here are the "headliner" performers.  These entertainers often board mid-cruise, stay on board for a few nights, perform, then disembark and fly to their next ship.  Once again though, they are unlikely to have contracted the virus in NZ or the South Pacific islands, so if they were infected, then they most likely caught it in Australia (which brings us back to where we started).

 

Yes, there are a few longer cruises where passengers regularly embark & disembark mid-cruise.  This is how coronavirus got on board the Diamond Princess.  This is not the case for cruises to the South Pacific or NZ, which was the Ruby Princess' destination.

I Had thought of the performers, as how they transfer from ship to ship to perform is impressive.

I agree the South Pacific ports were so low risk at that time, they can travel freely to NZ.  Lucky for them, they were amongst the first to not allow cruise ships to disembark passengers. 

Captain Jonathan, Amsterdam, was wise because he stopped visiting all scheduled ports at the end of the WC.

[Vader1111]

45 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

There had been no positive tests coming from the Ruby Princess before it docked in Sydney on 19th March. Clearly someone on board had the virus. Last week it was stated that a couple who flew in from USA might have been the source of the infection. I don't know that this has been confirmed.

It's probably not the case for Ruby, but there were consecutive cruises on Voyager of the Seas which resulted in positive tests.

[Aus Traveller]

6 minutes ago, Vader1111 said:

It's probably not the case for Ruby, but there were consecutive cruises on Voyager of the Seas which resulted in positive tests.

That's bad: consecutive cruises on Voyager of the Seas that resulted in infections.

[Pushka]

7 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

When anyone tests positive, the authorities check where they might have acquired it, then try to trace all their contacts. There have been no reports of corvid-19 infection on the previous Ruby cruise.

 

The majority of people on the Princess Board are from USA. They are very much focused on their part of the world to the exclusion of everywhere else. 🙂 Someone there quoted a BBC report with the comment that it was the "Australian perspective". I pointed out the difference between the BBC and ABC.😁

There was a trip report for Ruby that started on 8th March. I dont know the start date of THAT Ruby cruise, it may have been the one after this? However that TR did mention they were late boarding of that cruise due to Covid issue but then they didnt elaborate and suddenly their posts were moderated out, as were mine, as I'd warned them that they may need to isolate.  They were back in the US by then.

 

Oh good grief. Get this:

 

  9 hours ago, BRANDEE said:

 

Hi..Did you receive a question survey from the NSW Health Dept yesterday (Tues) regarding the cruise. 

I did and immediately deleted it. I don't open unknown or unsolicited links.

Edited March 26, 2020 by Pushka

[Aus Traveller]

5 minutes ago, Pushka said:

There was a trip report for Ruby that started on 8th March. I dont know the start date of THAT Ruby cruise, it may have been the one after this? However that TR did mention they were late boarding of that cruise due to Covid issue but then they didnt elaborate and suddenly their posts were moderated out, as were mine, as I'd warned them that they may need to isolate.  They were back in the US by then.

The previous cruise was a 13-night to NZ from 24th February. It has not been reported that anyone from that cruise has tested positive.

 

Someone who was on the 8th March cruise (that turned into a fiasco) stated that they were late embarking due to the covid-19 issue. I suggest that there was probably extensive cleaning of the ship.

 

The US passengers, like everyone else, were given written instructions about self-isolating at home. However, they may not have read the letter and just thrown it away. Then they claim they weren't told.

Edited March 26, 2020 by Aus Traveller

[Pushka]

6 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

The previous cruise was a 13-night to NZ from 24th February. It has not been reported that anyone from that cruise has tested positive.

 

Someone who was on the 8th March cruise (that turned into a fiasco) stated that they were late embarking due to the covid-19 issue. I suggest that there was probably extensive cleaning of the ship.

 

The US passengers, like everyone else, were given written instructions about self-isolating at home. However, they may not have read the letter and just thrown it away. Then they claim they weren't told.

 

This trip report is from THE cruise then, they did receive an email from NSW Health and deleted it! As per my amended post above. 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by Pushka

[Aus Traveller]

Just now, Pushka said:

 

Unless everyone including crew was tested on the previous cruise then we cant say when the infection first occurred. 

It could be a crew member who was also on the previous cruise, but if so, he/she apparently didn't infect anyone else because there have been no infection reports linked to the previous Ruby Princess cruise.

 

I suggest it started with the 8th March cruise, either from a passenger (plenty of them) or from the very limited number of new crew, if any boarded.