Queen Elizabeth Position

[sfred]

Safe travels home, @martinmct.  Much appreciated for all your photos and reports.  They brought back good memories from our voyage, and hopefully inspired future travelers. 

[martinmct]

….and finally back at Canada Place on Tue 20th June..thanks for your kind words @sfred. Next report will follow on 11th January 2024 from QM2!

 

Martin

Edited June 20, 2023 by martinmct
Wrong location!

[sfred]

QE is at anchor in Juneau Alaska today, with all four available pier positions taken by Discovery Princess, Nieuw Amsterdam, Majestic Princess, and Brilliance of the Seas.  A busy day for the port of Juneau!

 

A screen capture from the Juneau Harbor Webcam is shown below, with QE at right.

 

[fourmile.ranch]

2 hours ago, sfred said:

QE is at anchor in Juneau Alaska today, with all four available pier positions taken by Discovery Princess, Nieuw Amsterdam, Majestic Princess, and Brilliance of the Seas.  A busy day for the port of Juneau!

 

A screen capture from the Juneau Harbor Webcam is shown below, with QE at right.

 

We were docked this morning. Between 10:30a and noon she relocated and switched to tendering for the remainder of our time. Busy day indeed!

[techteach]

@fourmile.ranch Thanks for the post about Juneau. How crowded does it feel? Is it busy or crazy? Your post inspired me to check how ships will be in Juneau when we’re there in August. There will be 6! Approximately 12,000 people. That’s crazy. Are you enjoying Alaska?

[fourmile.ranch]

19 minutes ago, techteach said:

@fourmile.ranchAre you enjoying Alaska?

This has been my favorite voyage yet! Amazing mix of a great crew with a friendly group of pax. But for Juneau, I don't know. We stayed onboard as we do most ports.

[NE John]

21 minutes ago, techteach said:

@fourmile.ranch Thanks for the post about Juneau. How crowded does it feel? Is it busy or crazy? Your post inspired me to check how ships will be in Juneau when we’re there in August. There will be 6! Approximately 12,000 people. That’s crazy. Are you enjoying Alaska?

Thank you!

Your questions are to the root of my reluctance to go on a port intensive Alaska cruise. Our ship may “only” have 2,000 pax but then a few monster/resort ships debark at the same time making a mess. 

[techteach]

@NE John When DH and I cruise Alaska we are like @fourmile.ranch, we seldom get off the ship. The exception was a day long out of Skagway where we booked a tour that went up into Canada to the Yukon. I loved the landscape. I also love cruising past all of the beautiful trees and islands.

[sfred]

1 hour ago, NE John said:

Thank you!

Your questions are to the root of my reluctance to go on a port intensive Alaska cruise. Our ship may “only” have 2,000 pax but then a few monster/resort ships debark at the same time making a mess. 

 

@NE John poses an interesting question.  The Alaska ports didn't seem too crowded to us during our 2019 voyage, but admittedly we were there relatively early in the season, on QE's first voyage of that year in May.  The ports had either QE only, or only one or two additional ships in addition to us.  The exception was Ketchikan where all piers were full with four ships in total.

 

This got me to thinking what might be some population density comparisons of Alaska ports, with and without cruise ships, and in comparison to some other large urban areas.  I gathered some data from google, and created the below table:

 

 

As shown, the population density of Juneau, Ketchikan, and Skagway definitely increases significantly when the maximum number of ships are in port.  However, even with maximum ship impact, the population density in the Alaska ports is a small fraction of that in places like NYC Manhattan, the City of London, Hong Kong, New Delhi,, or Vancouver.   

 

The calculations used an "average" ship size of 3,000 people.  If some of the ships are mega-sized, the density would be a little greater.  I also used estimates of the average "daytime" populations of the urban city comparisons, reflecting both residents and commuters on a typical workday.  For the Alaska port land areas, I used measures of only the urban "city" areas rather than the total areas.  Juneau, for example, has a total land area of over 7,000 square kilometers, but only 36.3 square kilometers in the "city".  It doesn't take long to get into unpopulated wilderness in the Alaska ports, once away from the crowds at the pier.

 

Hope this helps to provide some interesting comparisons.

 

 

 

 

 

[NE John]

2 hours ago, sfred said:

 

@NE John poses an interesting question.  The Alaska ports didn't seem too crowded to us during our 2019 voyage, but admittedly we were there relatively early in the season, on QE's first voyage of that year in May.  The ports had either QE only, or only one or two additional ships in addition to us.  The exception was Ketchikan where all piers were full with four ships in total.

 

This got me to thinking what might be some population density comparisons of Alaska ports, with and without cruise ships, and in comparison to some other large urban areas.  I gathered some data from google, and created the below table:

 

 

As shown, the population density of Juneau, Ketchikan, and Skagway definitely increases significantly when the maximum number of ships are in port.  However, even with maximum ship impact, the population density in the Alaska ports is a small fraction of that in places like NYC Manhattan, the City of London, Hong Kong, New Delhi,, or Vancouver.   

 

The calculations used an "average" ship size of 3,000 people.  If some of the ships are mega-sized, the density would be a little greater.  I also used estimates of the average "daytime" populations of the urban city comparisons, reflecting both residents and commuters on a typical workday.  For the Alaska port land areas, I used measures of only the urban "city" areas rather than the total areas.  Juneau, for example, has a total land area of over 7,000 square kilometers, but only 36.3 square kilometers in the "city".  It doesn't take long to get into unpopulated wilderness in the Alaska ports, once away from the crowds at the pier.

 

Hope this helps to provide some interesting comparisons.

 

 

 

 

 

What a great study! It helps manage expectations and shows some ports can handle 1,000’s of people from ships better than others. 
It also shows that Ketchikan and Skagway can increase their populations by 150% on days when too many ships come in at once. 
How is it in these towns when busy? A few overcrowded ports have been my only real bad experience when cruising. 

[sfred]

From memory, the day we were in Skagway there was only one other ship besides QE.  Juneau had two other ships.  Neither location felt crowded.  Ketchikan was full with four ships, and the areas adjacent to the pier did feel a bit crowded, but not so much as to keep us from doing anything we wanted to do.   In all the other ports on our itinerary, QE was the only ship.  Mrs. sfred and I were quite often alone on walks, and it was very calm once away from the piers.

 

It occurred to me that an additional comparison that might be useful is Southampton England.  An updated table is shown below.

 

 

Several people here on Cruise Critic have mentioned that Southampton can feel a bit busy when multiple ships are in port.  With four ships of an average 3000 people each, Southampton has a population density of 5,171 people per square kilometer.  Admittedly, this isn't a completely accurate calculation, as the cruise passengers would be concentrated around the docks, the main shopping streets and the train station.  But as an order of magnitude comparison, Juneau would only be 25% as crowded, Ketchikan 35%, and Skagway 16%.

 

If Southampton doesn't feel too busy to you, the Alaska ports perhaps won't either.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by sfred

[david,Mississauga]

We have taken four cruises to Alaska in the past eight years, three of them on the QE. Not once I have been overwhelmed by crowds at any port.  On another forum someone said Skagway should be avoided because of excess crowds. Last year there were four ships in port on our day and this year three (plus a very small vessel.)  The excursion trains depart almost every hour and can hold about 600 people each.  This helps. 

 

In other ports a large number of people take bus excursions which helps reduce congestion in the city.  This year our call at Juneau was cancelled for an unknown reason, but last year there were five ships. Four were docked and the QE had to use tenders. We walked the main streets and boardwalk for an hour or so and never found it crowded. It was busy, but it never seemed like Piccadilly Circus.

[NE John]

16 hours ago, sfred said:

From memory, the day we were in Skagway there was only one other ship besides QE.  Juneau had two other ships.  Neither location felt crowded.  Ketchikan was full with four ships, and the areas adjacent to the pier did feel a bit crowded, but not so much as to keep us from doing anything we wanted to do.   In all the other ports on our itinerary, QE was the only ship.  Mrs. sfred and I were quite often alone on walks, and it was very calm once away from the piers.

 

It occurred to me that an additional comparison that might be useful is Southampton England.  An updated table is shown below.

 

 

Several people here on Cruise Critic have mentioned that Southampton can feel a bit busy when multiple ships are in port.  With four ships of an average 3000 people each, Southampton has a population density of 5,171 people per square kilometer.  Admittedly, this isn't a completely accurate calculation, as the cruise passengers would be concentrated around the docks, the main shopping streets and the train station.  But as an order of magnitude comparison, Juneau would only be 25% as crowded, Ketchikan 35%, and Skagway 16%.

 

If Southampton doesn't feel too busy to you, the Alaska ports perhaps won't either.

 

 

@sfred  Thank you again for this analysis. I have a better idea now if Alaskan excursions and it’s back on my list.   There seems to be so many other activities far away from the port that sound very attractive. 

[techteach]

The only place I’ve felt cramped is in Ketchikan. We docked right down town and the sidewalks were packed as were the jewelry stores. Don’t ask me how I know that!

[fourmile.ranch]

Looks like 14,714 pax in Ketchikan today...

[sfred]

21 minutes ago, fourmile.ranch said:

Looks like 14,714 pax in Ketchikan today...

 

Indeed a busy day in Ketchikan.  Thanks @fourmile.ranch.  Looks like Westerdam and Norwegian Encore have already sailed.  Marine Traffic is showing these two ships now underway south of Ketchikan, with QE, Celebrity Eclipse, and Noordam still alongside in port.  Hope you are having a nice day!

 

 

If all 14,714 total passengers were in town at the same time today (and any crew that might have been ashore in addition), that would be roughly 185% of Ketchikan's local population, and make for a population density of a little over 2,000 people per square kilometer, or about 40% of Southampton, 3% of NYC Manhattan, 2% of the City of London and Hong Kong, and 0.8% of New Delhi India.

Edited August 5, 2023 by sfred

[exlondoner]

On 8/4/2023 at 4:55 AM, sfred said:

 

It occurred to me that an additional comparison that might be useful is Southampton England.  An updated table is shown below.

 

 

 

Several people here on Cruise Critic have mentioned that Southampton can feel a bit busy when multiple ships are in port.  With four ships of an average 3000 people each, Southampton has a population density of 5,171 people per square kilometer.  Admittedly, this isn't a completely accurate calculation, as the cruise passengers would be concentrated around the docks, the main shopping streets and the train station.  But as an order of magnitude comparison, Juneau would only be 25% as crowded, Ketchikan 35%, and Skagway 16%.

 

If Southampton doesn't feel too busy to you, the Alaska ports perhaps won't either.

 

 

I think Southampton is not really comparable. Most of the ships that call there are disembarking almost all their passengers and embarking a totally different lot. It is not really a place people visit for its own sake, for some reason. This means at certain times there is huge pressure on taxis and a lot of traffic in the area round the docks. It probably has a limited effect on the pubs and shops half a mile away, as most of those passengers will not linger.

[D&N]

Our town has a population of 15,000 to 16,000 depending on the source of statistics.

That supposedly gives us 2,200 m2 each.

In winter there are probably only about 9,000 here due to the number of second homes in the town.

For a few weeks in August the population swells to around 40,000 as Northern Europe descends on the Med coast.

Even then it's not difficult to find a part of the town where you don't see anyone else for several hours.

Not the beach of course! 🏖️

[sfred]

11 hours ago, exlondoner said:

I think Southampton is not really comparable. Most of the ships that call there are disembarking almost all their passengers and embarking a totally different lot. It is not really a place people visit for its own sake, for some reason. This means at certain times there is huge pressure on taxis and a lot of traffic in the area round the docks. It probably has a limited effect on the pubs and shops half a mile away, as most of those passengers will not linger.

 

Understand and agree, thanks @exlondoner.  The flaw in all of my population density calculations is that people are never evenly distributed across the geographic areas, and there will be areas of greater and lower density.  I can be sure that there will be a lot more people in any queue that I happen to join.  🙂  I was just curious to see what the order of magnitude differences were in density across some locations I've been to, and thanks to google it was easy to gather the necessary data.

[NE John]

1 hour ago, D&N said:

Our town has a population of 15,000 to 16,000 depending on the source of statistics.

That supposedly gives us 2,200 m2 each.

In winter there are probably only about 9,000 here due to the number of second homes in the town.

For a few weeks in August the population swells to around 40,000 as Northern Europe descends on the Med coast.

Even then it's not difficult to find a part of the town where you don't see anyone else for several hours.

Not the beach of course! 🏖️

Sounds like the Jersey Shore (New Jersey) in the summer with swarms from NYC and Philadelphia going Down the Shore. 

[sfred]

QE is in Vancouver Canada today 17 August.  A webcam of her arrival at dawn this morning is shown below.  This is the final Vancouver call of the 2023 Alaska season.  Upon departure this evening, she will turn southward en route to the Mediterranean via the Panama Canal. 

 

Best wishes to all passengers joining today in Vancouver.  We'll be boarding Sunday 20th in San Francisco.

 

[sfred]

QE arrived in San Francisco early this morning, Sunday 20 August.  Pier 27 at the James R Herman Cruise Terminal for those embarking later today.

 

[bluemarble]

Here's the view a short time ago, once again as seen on the webcam hosted by the Mersea Restaurant on Treasure Island, as the sun was coming up to show QE along with some of the famous San Francisco skyline.

 

[techteach]

Wondering what changes may occur due to Storm Hilary.

[LadyL1]

Looks like it will be a lovely evening to sail under the Golden Gate! A great spectacle.