SS/RCCL Finances: Improving, Options, Questions??!!

[les37b]

9 hours ago, cruiseej said:

 

No, the equation is whether the stress is greater than or less than the joy of being at sea again. 😉

 

I've a sailing on Viking this weekend (my 3 SS bookings are next year and still liable to cancellation!). Having done 3 UK "Seacations", it was indeed great to be sailing again, even with the testing and mask wearing. The stress levels in getting things prepared for flying to Malta and the ever changing itinerary (because of changes to traffic lights) and the forms and tests depending on the day of the week you check have been through the roof! I have certainly asked myself if its worth it. I'm reasonably on the ball to check and double check and ask if I'm unsure, but I can imagine for many its too much.

 

 

[Silver Spectre]

29 minutes ago, les37b said:

 

I've a sailing on Viking this weekend (my 3 SS bookings are next year and still liable to cancellation!). Having done 3 UK "Seacations", it was indeed great to be sailing again, even with the testing and mask wearing. The stress levels in getting things prepared for flying to Malta and the ever changing itinerary (because of changes to traffic lights) and the forms and tests depending on the day of the week you check have been through the roof! I have certainly asked myself if its worth it. I'm reasonably on the ball to check and double check and ask if I'm unsure, but I can imagine for many its too much.

 

 

You have my sympathy Les, although the expectation of being on the Shadow again after so long just about trumps the form filling and testing and all the general travel angst. Unfortunately thats what living in the real world is like these days. Here’s hoping all runs smoothly.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Silver Spectre

[les37b]

43 minutes ago, Silver Spectre said:

You have my sympathy Les, although the expectation of being on the Shadow again after so long just about trumps the form filling and testing and all the general travel angst. Unfortunately thats what living in the real world is like these days. Here’s hoping all runs smoothly.

 

Agree. The new norm, wont ever be the new norm as its changing nearly daily! It's depressing, but it can still work. In Croatia, the bulk of the stops we are allowed to DIY on tours (at the moment!) so hopefully that remains. I did read on one of the EU propaganda sites, that Croatia had introduced a vaccine expiry date at 210 days after last vaccine. That actually would have meant us needing to cancel as our arrival in Dubrovnik is actually 210 days. Luckily their info was wrong and Croatia and Austria have a vaccine lapse of 270 days. But this is the new norm!

 

BA was true to form though in cancelling my 06.15 flight from LHR and booking us now on a flight at 14.15...... Day 1 on the ship now cancelled! Thanks BA. They had two flights. They now have one completely full and the Air Malta flight also full. This caused Viking to stop selling the cruise in the UK.

[RetiredandTravel]

13 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

One reason why I won't be booking a cruise any time soon.  Those that want to do so must want to endure more stress in their life than I choose to do.  

 

 

I agree.  For our taste there are just too many un knowns and the rules are constantly changing.  We are planning our SS cruises starting in 2023.    Cruiseeej & LoisR I hope you have healthy, joyous and event free travels.  Please send pictures, we love them.

 

 

[jpalbny]

Agree the changing regulations are a challenge. We are on Ponant now, having arrived in Nice this past Sunday morning. 

 

The rules for US visitors in France changed as of Sunday morning but all has been fine. We have needed the passe sanitaire a few times but we have it so it's all good.

 

I will admit that on Saturday, the day we left, I was a bit of a nervous wreck about whether we'd lined everything up correctly. The regulations are confusing and I could have definitely done without that stress. 

 

But here we are, having a great time. We are so glad to be cruising again!

[les37b]

11 minutes ago, jpalbny said:

I will admit that on Saturday, the day we left, I was a bit of a nervous wreck about whether we'd lined everything up correctly. The regulations are confusing and I could have definitely done without that stress. 

 

But here we are, having a great time. We are so glad to be cruising again!

 

It's how I hopefully will be feeling on Sunday JP. I was really banking on finding out before sailing what the Dawn's South American fate was, but the suggested announcement dates have all been and gone. If this went to plan, I was intending on transferring my current booking forward 1 year and filling the space with a Viking Northern Lights booking made on board to plug the gap. I can't be in two places at once. I cant really make the call with that hanging over me.

 

I know the UK is dropping downgrading many of the Red countries from tomorrow (allegedly) and its also  been suggested we will be dropping the PCR pre flight and return day 2 day requirement for vaccinated. Oh and boosters available for all from next week for all over 50s and anyone with a lapse of 6 months and over (double qualify here lol).

 

Its more fluid than water! 😅

 

And suspect this weighs in with the lack of announcement.

[rkacruiser]

On 9/13/2021 at 6:05 PM, cruiseej said:

 

No, the equation is whether the stress is greater than or less than the joy of being at sea again. 😉

 

On 9/13/2021 at 10:28 PM, Lois R said:

I had a fantastic time on both my Greece sailing and my Alaska cruise😀.......being on the ship, on the water.......ahhhhhhhhhhhh...........nothing better.

 

I  agree with the thinking of Lois R.  But, it's the "getting to that point" in one's travel experience.

 

My equation shows this:

 

A wonderful cruise experience at this time does not equal the fact that I must deal with the frequently changing requirements, more uncertainties than usual in planning and experiencing a trip, and the stress that I would experience because of having to deal with these requirements.  

 

A second equation of mine is this:

 

As a guest, having to wear a mask + on a ship where the crew must wear a mask = a cruise on which I won't be sailing.  

 

Am I opposed to wearing masks?  Absolutely not!  Because of my own anatomical and physical condition, my equation is this:  All aboard must wear a mask = A most unpleasant cruise experience for this guest.  

 

 

[cruiseej]

@rkacruiser When I wrote "the equation is whether the stress is greater than or less than the joy of being at sea again", I absolutely meant that each individual must decide which factor is larger for them.

 

To me, it's something of a hassle to jump through the hoops of international travel today. But I like travel planning in normal times, and I've chosen to view these days as travel planning on steroids. I believe that my pleasure at being on a cruise will exceed to annoyance of the planning and hoop-jumping. But I understand when someone else looks at the same equation and decides no, it isn't worth the hassles and risk and worries to get on a cruise. There's no right or wrong answer, and each of us can look at the same set of information and reach different conclusions.

 

As for wearing a mask at times on a cruise, I don't perceive it to be a problem. I feel it's really no different than life at home. I don't wear a mask in my house or my car; I do put on a mask walking into a store, or a restaurant until I am seated. On a cruise, if I need to wear a mask walking down a corridor or in an elevator, when I walk into a restaurant, or when I'm on a bus, that seems very similar to me.

 

Of course, we'd all prefer to not have any masks in our lives, but Covid is going to be with us in some form for some time, and it seems, so will mask-wearing around others. Would I rather stay home and wear a mask entering a restaurant or bask on a cruise ship and wear a mask entering a restaurant? Perhaps I'll feel differently after my upcoming cruise, but my perception from the reports of cruisers over the past few months is that I won't be wearing a mask for most of each day, and therefore wearing a mask at the times when I'm required to do so will not detract from my cruise experience. For anyone who currently doesn't go out much to work, stores, restaurants, etc. and therefore doesn't wear a mask very often, I understand that you may feel differently regarding going on a cruise. 

[cece50]

On 9/14/2021 at 6:50 AM, RetiredandTravel said:

 

 

I agree.  For our taste there are just too many un knowns and the rules are constantly changing.  We are planning our SS cruises starting in 2023.    Cruiseeej & LoisR I hope you have healthy, joyous and event free travels.  Please send pictures, we love them.

 

 

I too hope all who are sailing now stay healthy & happy.  Lord knows, we all deserve a good dose of happy at this point.  We too are looking ahead to cruising in 2023 as the process & uncertainties right now don’t fit our sensibilities.  However, for us, the most important issue is dealing with a positive test in a foreign country.  While an asymptomatic positive result  & subsequent quarantine sounds less than pleasant, we but more (I) really can’t fathom being very sick & not have access to my doctors.  While surely good doctors are everywhere, this virus seems most dangerous for our over 65 demographic.  We are very healthy & not too worried if we get sick at home, but international travel at this time makes us pause.  We can’t get our brains around the fact that if we happen to get very sick with Covid abroad, our own country won’t let us come home. We are probably being over cautious and overthinking it all.  It’s so funny, because we were always intrepid adventurous travelers.  

Edited September 16, 2021 by cece50

[rkacruiser]

22 hours ago, cruiseej said:

But I understand when someone else looks at the same equation and decides no, it isn't worth the hassles and risk and worries to get on a cruise. There's no right or wrong answer, and each of us can look at the same set of information and reach different conclusions.

 

Your post is an excellent one and does reflect my thinking.  

[cruiseej]

On 9/15/2021 at 11:34 PM, cece50 said:

We are probably being over cautious and overthinking it all.  It’s so funny, because we were always intrepid adventurous travelers.  

 

Nope, there's actually nothing funny about it, @cece50. Even for those of us who have decided to travel under current conditions, Covid makes us pause and think about unpleasant "what if…" scenarios, and to decide "let's go for it" knowing there are calculated risks we're taking. And even though most people on SS cruises have described no problems and wonderful times, we can't push entirely out of our minds the knowledge that there are a small number of people who have tested positive just before leaving home, and a very few who have flown to another country, tested positive upon arrival, and had all their travel plans upended. 

[cece50]

12 minutes ago, cruiseej said:

 

Nope, there's actually nothing funny about it, @cece50. Even for those of us who have decided to travel under current conditions, Covid makes us pause and think about unpleasant "what if…" scenarios, and to decide "let's go for it" knowing there are calculated risks we're taking. And even though most people on SS cruises have described no problems and wonderful times, we can't push entirely out of our minds the knowledge that there are a small number of people who have tested positive just before leaving home, and a very few who have flown to another country, tested positive upon arrival, and had all their travel plans upended. 

I do admire those who have taken the risks, which shows a resilience and an optimism that I truly wish I could share at this moment in time.  I sometimes don’t recognize the cautious person that I have become regarding international travel.  We have relegated ourselves to traveling the lower 48 this summer, which has been outstanding.  We have visited some parts of our country that we have not seen and are very glad to have had the opportunity.   We head to Florida for the winter as we have done now for a few years,  Italy is on the docket for June 2022 with family & friends in Tuscany (we can only hope). But 2023 looms large in our minds to get back to cruising.  Wishing everyone the very best in whatever plans come to fruition.  

Edited September 17, 2021 by cece50

[cruiseej]

3 minutes ago, cece50 said:

I sometimes don’t recognize the cautious person that I have become regarding international travel...   We head to Florida for the winter...

 

And while I've decided I'm okay with cruising right now, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be okay with spending time in Florida this winter! 😉

[cece50]

1 minute ago, cruiseej said:

 

And while I've decided I'm okay with cruising right now, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be okay with spending time in Florida this winter! 😉

I hear you……everyone loves to hate Florida right now, but we are in a nice little bubble……sunshine, beach and controlled dinning venues and we do what seems reasonable to us.  We got through the worst of it before the vaccinations were available.  We are working to get all our migrant workers vaccinated as they are the ones who are most apprehensive and the most vulnerable.  Besides, we only hang around “old people” and we are all vaccinated (for whatever that is worth these days).  Trust me, I will take Florida over NJ in the winter months….🥶 As a Pennsylvania girl born and raised, I was raised to be cautious.  

[TLCOhio]

13 hours ago, cece50 said:

I hear you……everyone loves to hate Florida right now, but we are in a nice little bubble……sunshine, beach and controlled dinning venues and we do what seems reasonable to us.  We got through the worst of it before the vaccinations were available.  We are working to get all our migrant workers vaccinated as they are the ones who are most apprehensive and the most vulnerable.  Besides, we only hang around “old people” and we are all vaccinated (for whatever that is worth these days).  Trust me, I will take Florida over NJ in the winter months….🥶 As a Pennsylvania girl born and raised, I was raised to be cautious.  

 

Appreciate ALL of these varied and many interesting comments, personal experiences, etc., etc, as to when, how and if sailing resumes.  Key questions, such as Florida versus New Jersey, as to where it is "safer" and better for the upcoming  periods.  Great comments and follow-ups.  Here in Ohio, cases are spiking up and our hospitals are getting at or near capacity.  

 

From the Wall Street Journal late this afternoon, below are their stock charts for the past week.  Upward??!!

 

Also, this major newspaper had a press release today about an upcoming quarterly report for the finances and future for Carnival and all of their brands and ships.  They had this headline: “Carnival Corporation To Provide Third Quarter 2021 Business Update” with these highlights: “Carnival Corporation has scheduled a conference call with analysts for Friday, Sept. 24, 2021, at 10 a.m. (EDT); to provide a business update.

A simulcast of the call will be available via the company's Web sites at www.carnivalcorp.com and www.carnivalplc.com. Interested parties may participate by calling 303 223 0118 in the U.S., or 44 (0) 208 196 2145 in the U.K.”

 

Will aim to listen for the comments and insights next Friday from their top executives and how they view the cruising future.

 

Full story at:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/carnival-corporation-plc-to-provide-third-quarter-2021-business-update-01631903516?tesla=y

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Summer 2019 Calgary, Jasper/Banff National Parks, Western Canada Rocky Mountaineer rail adventure, Vancouver, sailing up to Alaska on Silver Muse, post-cruise excursion to Denali, etc.  Many visuals and details from our first in these scenic areas!  Live/blog: 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2682584-live-terryohio-silver-muse-alaska-canadarockies-pix’s/

 

From the Wall Street Journal,  here are the stock charts for the three major cruise lines during the past five trading days.  Genally, movement in an upward, positive manner. But, much up-and-down activity during the past week.:

(Open your screen/viewer wider to see these visuals larger/better!)

 

 

[rkacruiser]

2 hours ago, TLCOhio said:

Also, this major newspaper had a press release today about an upcoming quarterly report for the finances and future for Carnival and all of their brands and ships.  They had this headline: “Carnival Corporation To Provide Third Quarter 2021 Business Update” with these highlights: “Carnival Corporation has scheduled a conference call with analysts for Friday, Sept. 24, 2021, at 10 a.m. (EDT); to provide a business update.

A simulcast of the call will be available via the company's Web sites at www.carnivalcorp.com and www.carnivalplc.com. Interested parties may participate by calling 303 223 0118 in the U.S., or 44 (0) 208 196 2145 in the U.K.”

 

Thanks for providing this information.  I have attendance on my calendar.  10:00 A. M. is a later time than I have needed to be online for many earlier reports.  I appreciate that.  

[TLCOhio]

During this past week, the Silversea parent of Royal Caribbean moved up very strongly, going upward by $9 a share or about a 11% increase.  Clear, strong, positive movement!!  Do the financial pro's know what is coming for the future?? The other cruise lines, as shown below, moved in a similar direction.  See charts at the bottom for the the big three cruise companies.  

 

From the Wall Street Journal's sister publication of Barrons yesterday, they had this headline: “Carnival Loss Widens a Bit, but Shares Climb on an Improving Cruise Outlook” with these highlights: “Cruise operator Carnival reported that it lost an adjusted $2 billion in the third quarter versus about $1.7 billion a year earlier, but investors cheered the company’s improving outlook despite concerns about the Covid-19 Delta variant.  Miami-based Carnival pointed out that eight of its nine global cruise brands have resumed sailings and that cumulative advanced bookings for the second half of 2022 are ahead of 2019 levels. Its ships are operating at lower capacity levels than during normal times.”

 

I was tied up yesterday morning and did not get a chance to listen live to the Carnival quarterly report to the Wall Street analysts.  Will try to listen to that report this weekend and report any highlight details here.

 

Full story at:

https://www.barrons.com/articles/high-yield-energy-funds-inflation-51632175904

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Barcelona/Med: June 2011, with stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Great visuals with key highlights, tips, etc. Live/blog now at 253,884 views.

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

 

From the Wall Street Journal late yesterday,  here are the stock charts for the three major cruise lines during the past five trading days.  Nicely moving upward in a sharply positive manne during the past week.:

(Open your screen/viewer wider to see these visuals larger/better!)

 

 

[MHF]

"Have I prepared and researched all the Covid restrictions and other items properly" is a concern as well as "Will I pass all the Covid tests".  I worry about false positives and other test issues.  Along with packing clothes and charging electronics, let's now worry about forgetting masks, vaccine cards, and test results.  It's not just grab the credit card with the passport and GO any more.

 

All that being said, I have a check list and I'm hoping to sail on the Shadow in November!

 

Missy in MD

[RetiredandTravel]

Given the price performance I was wondering where the update was Terry.  Thanks.  Listening to quarterly earnings calls, you are taking this seriously.

[Lois R]

1 hour ago, MHF said:

"Have I prepared and researched all the Covid restrictions and other items properly" is a concern as well as "Will I pass all the Covid tests".  I worry about false positives and other test issues.  Along with packing clothes and charging electronics, let's now worry about forgetting masks, vaccine cards, and test results.  It's not just grab the credit card with the passport and GO any more.

 

All that being said, I have a check list and I'm hoping to sail on the Shadow in November!

 

Missy in MD

Hi Missy, I leave in 2 weeks........I just keep checking the United Website to see if any of the items (testing) is staying as is. The only electronic I bring with me is my phone. That's it.....but after reading on the other thread about how SS will basically take care of you if you do test positive? Makes me feel better......did you read that post? 

Passport, Vax card, Negative Antigen Test........Credit cards, money and clothes. (Masks)

[Silver Spectre]

Thanks for the update Terry. Do you have any idea just how much each of the 3 majors have now reported as lost since the pandemic hit.

[CruiserFromMaine]

I’m not Terry, but I looked into the question of losses in the Big 3.

 

It’s somewhat complicated by the quarterly reporting and that the first quarter of 2020 was not completely affected by Covid-19. Also, the third quarter of 2021 results haven’t been released yet. 
 

What I did was look at their regulatory SEC filing for all of 2020 plus the first two quarters of 2021. All three companies lost money in the first quarter of 2020, so whatever profit they had in the first two months was more than offset by losses in the last month.

 

Royal Caribbean Cruises, Ltd., 2020 loss=$5.8B; Q2/2021 loss = $2.5B; total loss= $8.3B

NCLH, 2020 loss = $4.0B; Q2/2021 loss = $2.1B; total loss = $6.1B

Carnival Corp., 2020 loss = $10.2B; Q2/2021 loss = $4.0B; total loss = $14.2B

 

The Carnival loss in 2020 really stuck out to me, it’s more than other two combined. 

[RetiredandTravel]

I haven't done a thorough analysis but It looks like CCL is a much larger company.  The Pre-Covid '19 revenue for CCL, RCL & NCLH were ~ $20MM, 11 & 6.4.  

[MHF]

On 9/25/2021 at 3:21 PM, Lois R said:

Hi Missy, I leave in 2 weeks........I just keep checking the United Website to see if any of the items (testing) is staying as is. The only electronic I bring with me is my phone. That's it.....but after reading on the other thread about how SS will basically take care of you if you do test positive? Makes me feel better......did you read that post? 

Passport, Vax card, Negative Antigen Test........Credit cards, money and clothes. (Masks)

Hi Lois, I'm headed to Italy for 3 weeks with a college friend and her mother.  From there I fly to Lisbon to meet the Shadow.  I couldn't say no when she asked even tho' it was right before my cruise!  So many details to take care of to be away for 7 weeks.  I have a HUGE checklist.  Have my antigen test booked.  Am shipping one suitcase with cruise clothes to Lisbon because I've been told not to drag 2 suitcases around Italy with them.

 

M in M

[TLCOhio]

On 9/26/2021 at 9:56 AM, CruiserFromMaine said:

I’m not Terry, but I looked into the question of losses in the Big 3.  It’s somewhat complicated by the quarterly reporting and that the first quarter of 2020 was not completely affected by Covid-19. Also, the third quarter of 2021 results haven’t been released yet. What I did was look at their regulatory SEC filing for all of 2020 plus the first two quarters of 2021. All three companies lost money in the first quarter of 2020, so whatever profit they had in the first two months was more than offset by losses in the last month.   Royal Caribbean Cruises, Ltd., 2020 loss=$5.8B; Q2/2021 loss = $2.5B; total loss= $8.3B   NCLH, 2020 loss = $4.0B; Q2/2021 loss = $2.1B; total loss = $6.1B  Carnival Corp., 2020 loss = $10.2B; Q2/2021 loss = $4.0B; total loss = $14.2B

The Carnival loss in 2020 really stuck out to me, it’s more than other two combined. 

 

Appreciate these above, great details, comments and follow-up from our friend in Maine. It is tangled and challenging to follow and total this huge massing up of new and continued debt for the cruise industry.

 

From the Associated Press/AP newswire and the Arizona Republic this past weekend, they had this headline: “ 'We haven't recovered yet': Short-term outlook remains grim for cruise industry” with these highlights: “Carnival Corp. lost $2.8 billion in the third quarter, but shares rose Friday after the cruise line operator said bookings for the second half of next year are running ahead of 2019 levels.  Cruising investors are looking for any glimmer of hope for an industry that has been battered by the pandemic.  Still, the short-term outlook remains grim. Carnival said the rise in U.S. COVID-19 cases from the delta variant hurt sales this summer. Rivals Royal Caribbean and Norwegian Cruise Line saw the same thing. Carnival said the average ship was only 59% full in August, but that was an improvement from 39% in June, and voyages generated enough revenue to cover cash costs.  'We reported a significant loss, so we haven’t recovered yet, obviously, but as we look ahead we see brighter days,' CEO Arnold Donald said in an interview. 'If things continue to trend the way they are (with COVID-19 cases), we should see positive cash flow as we get our fleet sailing broadly again.'  While there were fewer passengers, they spent 20% more on board than before the pandemic, the company said.  Eight of Carnival’s nine cruise lines including Carnival, Princess and Holland America have resumed sailing with reduced schedules. The company said it expects more than half of its fleet to be operating by the end of October and the full fleet by next summer.”

 

Full story at:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/travel/cruises/2021/09/25/short-term-outlook-remains-grim-cruise-industry-due-covid-spike/5865065001/

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise from Copenhagen, July 2010, to the top of Europe. Scenic visuals with key tips. Live/blog at 242,696 views.

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923