Future cruise credit....move end date

[Redtravel]

Got fcc that expires a year from date issued. 3/19/20 I got an email this week stating it was now ready to be used. Must book by 3/19/21 and complete cruise by 3/19/22. Seems like a decent amount of time in normal times when cruises are fully operational.  Now, Oceania has suspended operations until June 30 and likely longer . Many ports are closed. Several countries do not plan to reopen ports for cruise ships until 2021.   That could go longer.  That really cuts down the time limit to use the fcc.  Fcc on a cruise line that is not operating?  It might be more valuable if it is good for a year from when cruising starts sailing again.  Certainly not booking until the virus is under control, ships are sailing, and ports are open.  Move the must book by date to a year from when cruises sail again. 

[clo]

5 minutes ago, Redtravel said:

Got fcc that expires a year from date issued. 3/19/20 I got an email this week stating it was now ready to be used. Must book by 3/19/21 and complete cruise by 3/19/22. Seems like a decent amount of time in normal times when cruises are fully operational.  Now, Oceania has suspended operations until June 30 and likely longer . Many ports are closed. Several countries do not plan to reopen ports for cruise ships until 2021.   That could go longer.  That really cuts down the time limit to use the fcc.  Fcc on a cruise line that is not operating?  It might be more valuable if it is good for a year from when cruising starts sailing again.  Certainly not booking until the virus is under control, ships are sailing, and ports are open.  Move the must book by date to a year from when cruises sail again. 

So are you asking a question? Have you contacted O about this?

[Redtravel]

At this time, I cannot see booking any future cruises. After returning home on March 18 from the Sirena and been quarantined for 2 weeks not leaving my home which is now stay at home order. If this pandemic doesn’t get controlled soon, fcc could be worthless.  If the use by date were a year from the date when Oceania resumes normal operations, I might feel more comfortable booking a future cruise.  Just my thoughts.

[pingpong1]

Redtravel - There have been more than a few of us on this board who have been advising from the very beginning, to "take the cash" rather than an FCC, if you're given the choice - For many of the very same reasons you have pointed out in your  opening post.  An FCC, for whatever percentage of value you can imagine, is worthless if it can never be used, or if future cruise selections are so limited that the certificate is just "being used for the sake of being used".

 

Like in every other financial circumstance of life....."Cash" is always better than "credit".

[ABoatNerd]

pingpong1 - exactly. Take the cash.

 

Further, the cruise lines are not exactly helping their reputation by the continued delay in refunds. So after 1 month has passed, get to your credit card company and launch a "third party dispute". The TA is the third party in the transaction, and they are in default of your cancellation because the funds are with the cruise line. You will have to provide some paperwork etc.

 

The credit card companies view the 60 and 90 day period as not satisfactory re: the consumer.

 

Get your money back and move on. You can take that $ and purchase other vacation configurations in the future - but you are in control, not the cruise line.

[pinotlover]

I would like to see the documentation for the claim “ several countries do not plan on reopening ports until 2021”. Which countries? Source quoted please.

 

I believe the credit card companies are fully aware that the cruise industry is living off borrowed money currently. Remember NCL lining up that seemingly large new line of credit? Cash Flow is king right now. My guess if you put in a claim, it’ll take 90-120 days for the cc companies to even look at it.

Edited April 27, 2020 by pinotlover

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, pinotlover said:

I would like to see the documentation for the claim “ several countries do not plan on reopening ports until 2021”. Which countries? Source quoted please.

 

I believe the credit card companies are fully aware that the cruise industry is living off borrowed money currently. Remember NCL lining up that seemingly large new line of credit? Cash Flow is king right now. My guess if you put in a claim, it’ll take 90-120 days for the cc companies to even look at it.

I can provide a source for one country, Italy, which plans to remain closed to all tourism, not just cruising through the end of 2020:

https://nation.com.pk/26-Apr-2020/italy-to-remain-closed-for-tourism-until-end-of-year

 

"Italy's borders will stay closed to foreign tourists until the end of the year, Dario Franceschini, Minister of Culture and Tourism, said in an interview with La Repubblica."

 

I  think it's reasonable to assume that other countries will eventually follow suit.

[LHT28]

9 hours ago, Redtravel said:

Got fcc that expires a year from date issued. 3/19/20 I got an email this week stating it was now ready to be used. Must book by 3/19/21 and complete cruise by 3/19/22. Seems like a decent amount of time in normal times when cruises are fully operational.  Now, Oceania has suspended operations until June 30 and likely longer .

I suspect if there are no cruises  to book before  March 21  &  Oceania is still in business  they will move  the  date for booking  using  the FCC   for those with the earlier  dates

[Redtravel]

10 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

I suspect if there are no cruises  to book before  March 21  &  Oceania is still in business  they will move  the  date for booking  using  the FCC   for those with the earlier  dates

That would make sense.  It would make people more at ease who have fcc from the virus situation.  Oceania should state this on their website or on the fcc voucher. I have several memberships in organizations, museums, etc.  Some have been upfront saying that the membership will be extended for the time missed while they are closed.  Some have said that they are not extending time, stating that you can still use their online sites.  I have had membership for years in one museum that said that it will not extend for time missed.  I wonder if they will miss my membership when it comes up for renewal. 

[StanandJim]

1 minute ago, Redtravel said:

I have had membership for years in one museum that said that it will not extend for time missed.  I wonder if they will miss my membership when it comes up for renewal. 

I doubt that they will be impacted by  or notice your actions.

 

[LHT28]

19 minutes ago, Redtravel said:

That would make sense.  It would make people more at ease who have fcc from the virus situation.  Oceania should state this on their website or on the fcc voucher.

Maybe they are hoping like everyone else the World  will be  right again by fall

 

Stay home Stay safe

[pinotlover]

Small Non profits often exist on razor thin margins. Perhaps some of those organizations are just saying they need the money and can’t afford to extend memberships. Either you help the cause, or not, personal choice.

[clo]

1 hour ago, LHT28 said:

Maybe they are hoping like everyone else the World  will be  right again by fall

 

Are there really a lot of people who think that could be possible? Wow.

[Redtravel]

1 hour ago, StanandJim said:

I doubt that they will be impacted by  or notice your actions.

 

I bet they will.  

[clo]

40 minutes ago, Redtravel said:

I bet they will.  

If one makes enough noise! I've also read that calling out a company on Twitter gets their attention.

[CintiPam]

The OP states he must book his FCC cruise by just short of 11 months from now and complete the cruise by one year and 11 months from now.  Was that such an unreasonable requirement when Oceania issued this a month ago?  Perhaps the required timing will change just as daily our knowledge of this virus changes.  
 

IMO this complaint seems to be a bit premature.

Edited April 27, 2020 by CintiPam

[pingpong1]

19 minutes ago, CintiPam said:

The OP states he must book his FCC cruise by just short of 11 months from now and complete the cruise by one year and 11 months from now.  Was that such an unreasonable requirement when Oceania issued this a month ago?  Perhaps the required timing will change just as daily our knowledge of this virus changes.  
 

IMO this complaint seems to be a bit premature.

Hi Pam - On another board, "ORV" explained that when you "buy" a future cruise, with an FCC, you're not really giving the cruise line any new money.  The money you gave them for your "first cruise" (which got cancelled) has already been "spent" by the cruise line in order to pay all of their other ongoing bills.  The FCC means that the cruise line "owes" you a future cruise - without you having to give them any "new money" - even if their costs/operating expenses "go up" in the next year when you actually take that cruise.

 

If the FCC's that have been issued have a rather short period of time/lifespan to be used in (before they "expire"), let's say a year, that can be a problem for cruisers/customers.  There are only so many weeks in a year, and only so many cruises that can physically happen in a year.  What if everyone holding FCC's wants to/has to use those certificates all at once (within a 12-month period), and fills up every available "slot" on every available ship in the next year?  No "new money" is coming into the cruise line.  All they (the cruise lines) have are "expenses as far as the eye can see", with no "new money" to pay for it?  That can be a REAL "cash flow problem" for the comptrollers and financial managers of these companies.

 

During "normal" times, cruise industry finances "work" because there is a constant flow of new money coming in to pay past/current bills with.  The money you paid for your cruise is not the "same money" that the cruise line is going to use to pay the bills for "your particular cruise".  With this current situation we're in, with no "new money" coming in to the cruise lines, they're not going to have any funds in their bank accounts to pay those "current bills".  And right now, they're quickly drawing down the $Billions once had in their bank accounts to pay past/current/future bills that are coming in....with no new funds presently coming in....just thousands of FCC's they have to "honor".  A HUGE PROBLEM for them!  I've read that NCLH has monthly liabilities (bills) of about $1 Billion per month.  They only have enough "money in the kitty" to last them another 5-6 months.  They are having to draw on any/all available funding lines of credit (i.e. they're having to borrow $Billions) to just "keep the doors open" and stay out of bankruptcy.  For them to financially survive, new cruising MUST start within the next 5-6 months.  Regards 

[CintiPam]

The point I was making in my post is that the OP only is just past one month into twelve of his time to book a cruise and almost two years to take his cruise.  We still are infants in this brave new world.  I have trouble understanding his problem on April 27, 2020, perhaps because I do not book my (basically annual) Oceania cruises  so far in advance.  

Edited April 27, 2020 by CintiPam

[LHT28]

In the OP's case  they only have to book a cruise by March 19/21   but it can be for a sailing completed by March 19/22

 The way I read  the post  is if there are more cruises cancelled  after June 30 th  this year  it gives them less time to choose  a sailing if  Oceania is not sailing  this year 

 They can book a cruise  by March/21  as long as they sail/completed  by March/22   so they still have many options  to use the FCC

Pessimistic view

Then there is the possibility  that Oceania  no longer exists  so no cruise to worry about

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, pingpong1 said:

I've read that NCLH has monthly liabilities (bills) of about $1 Billion per month. 

No... NCLH estimates its cash burn at $110 to $150 million per month during the cruising suspension. This is from the 8-K just filed with the SEC today. 

http://www.nclhltdinvestor.com/node/12826/html

 

Taken together, the aforementioned cash conservation measures and the potential deferral of near-term debt amortization and newbuild related payments¹, the Company now estimates its cash burn to be on average in the range of, approximately $110 million to $150 million per month during the suspension of operations. This includes ongoing ship operating expenses, administrative operating expenses, interest expense and expected necessary capital expenditures and excludes cash refunds of customer deposits as well as cash inflows from new and existing bookings.

 

[pingpong1]

Yes, Thanks - I caught that "screw up" about an hour later.  In my brain, I confused it with their "total liabilities" which certainly exceed $6 Billion.  Regards.

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, pingpong1 said:

Yes, Thanks - I caught that "screw up" about an hour later.  In my brain, I confused it with their "total liabilities" which certainly exceed $6 Billion.  Regards.

Per their balance sheet as of 12/31/19 their current liabilities were about $3.6 billion, long term liabilities about $6.6 billion, for a total of $10.2 billion.

[Eastenders]

I did not get a reminder that my FCC was about to expire on March 3 2020.  Previously they were good for 2 years but in 2019 they changed that to 1 year.  Since all the cruise lines were cancelling sailings etc.  we didn't even think about booking as who knew when they would sail again.  We are out $900.  They didn't even offer to extend the date which would have been fine with us.  We are both seniors, 78 & 81 so are just worried about staying safe & healthy right now and shouldn't have to worry about losing all this money.  Shame on you Oceania.  We have sailed with them for 21 cruises between us.  Carole & Ray.

[LHT28]

9 minutes ago, Eastenders said:

I did not get a reminder that my FCC was about to expire on March 3 2020.  Previously they were good for 2 years but in 2019 they changed that to 1 year.  Since all the cruise lines were cancelling sailings etc.  we didn't even think about booking as who knew when they would sail again.  We are out $900.  They didn't even offer to extend the date which would have been fine with us.  We are both seniors, 78 & 81 so are just worried about staying safe & healthy right now and shouldn't have to worry about losing all this money.  Shame on you Oceania.  We have sailed with them for 21 cruises between us.  Carole & Ray.

Maybe you should  have written down the date  you were to book by

Even at my age (younger than you) I write down important  deadlines

 sorry no sympathy  from me

 

[ORV]

Truly not Oceania's fault. This is what a day planner or calendar(all computers, Pads & phones have them) these days. 

 

Not being mean but there is a certain responsibility that as adults is on us personally, not some company.