SS Future Re-Open Plan: Timing, Testing Needs??!!

[Daveywavey70]

But WWFT how does Social distancing work in lifeboats? Will each lifeboat be supplied with masks and gloves? Sanitizer gel? Will anyone care about the minuscule risk  of the virus vs abandoning a sinking ship? What about the “lifeboat drill conga drill” ?

[TLCOhio]

12 hours ago, Will Work for Tiramisu said:

Ah, yes - the pianist will be tinkling dutifully away, but he/she will be tickling the ivories while being towed on a raft secured by a stout rope to the aft rail.  Social distancing thus assured - they will allow a larger diameter tip jar, given that one will have to fling your tippage across some wet real estate to hit the mark.  But, you know what they say - the show must go on! 

 

Interesting speculation and fun guesses as to how "Social Distancing" will work once cruising is able to resume.

 

From this below financial website this morning, they had this headline: “Norwegian Cruise investors can blame the CDC for extended cruise suspensions, analyst says” with these highlights: “Shares of Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings Ltd. and other cruise operators tumbled Wednesday, after Norwegian extended the suspensions of ship departures by at least two months, but Instinet analyst Harry Curtis said investors should blame it on government bias, not the company.  Norwegian said late Tuesday that it was halting cruise voyages through Sept. 30, and is also canceling some departures through October, which is a change from previously announced suspensions through July. Norwegian said it would continue to work with the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the federal government and public health authorities to ensure safety of employees and guests.”

 

From this financial analyst, here is more of his views: " 'This issue is NOT that the industry has been passive in developing health protocols. Quite the contrary,' Curtis wrote in a note to clients. 'In our view, the hurdle lies with the CDC’s unwillingness to discuss, debate and mutually implement the highest standards of passenger and crew health care.'   He said Norwegian has for many weeks, submitted suggestions for new protocols, but the CDC has shown 'limited interest' in holding discussions about resuming cruises. Yet the company has little recourse but to wait for approval, as Curtis said the CDC has the power to impound or quarantine ships."

 

As the debates continue about certain states having rising infection numbers and there are now questions about a second round of virus shut-downs in China, the question continues for when and how does the CDC come up with its new rules and standards.  Clearly much is dependent on CDC, etc.  

 

Full story at:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/norwegian-cruise-investors-can-blame-the-cdc-for-extended-cruise-suspensions-analyst-says-2020-06-17?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D48067547828625906042720305430569016321|MCORGID%3DCB68E4BA55144CAA0A4C98A5%40AdobeOrg|TS%3D1592487647

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

 

Dubrovnik!  Nice visual samples, tips, details, etc., for this super scenic location. Over 47,332 views.    

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1439227

[QueSeraSera]

9 hours ago, TLCOhio said:

Clearly much is dependent on CDC,

Agreed.  I've had the deepest respect for the integrity and technical know-how of the CDC since I was an undergrad on the Emory U campus.  CDC was right next door to my dorm one year.  No politics allowed here on CC, thank goodness, but I do believe they will take leadership and guide us through this.

[machotspur]

I've noted on the Regent board that the very extensive post Covid-19 cruising protocol for Costa Cruises has been posted. (See link below)

 

This is the first detailed protocol i've seen from a major cruise line. Whilst it is specific to one cruise line, Costa is of course a Carnival brand and must surely give an indication as to what to expect on most other cruise ships.

 

http://www.sailcosta.com/8115_Safety/8115.03_FAQs.pdf

    

[spinnaker2]

I read the Costa protocol and it is fairly comprehensive.

 

I always wonder about pillows. To me they are the grossest collector of germs and other things like drool.

Will they pitch the pillows after each guest vacates the cabin?

 

How were they sanitized in pre covid?

 

In hospital the pillows used to have plastic covers in order that they be wiped down with disinfectant.

 

When I used to travel for work so frequently I brought an inflatable travel pillow with me rather than use the pillows on the bed.

 

 

 

[jollyjones]

On ships or in hotels I wrap my pillows in a clean bath towel every night. I do this at home too - I started it to mop up the sweat from hot flushes but it is now so much more comfortable, and comforting, than just the thin pillowcase that I continue to do it.

I know it's not waterproof, or bug proof, but it's a lot better than nothing. (I have slept on plastic covered pillows - ugh!)

 

As for your question Spins - How were they sanitized in pre covid? I assume that they assumed that clean pillow cases are enough. Probably the inner cover is replaced if visibly soiled.

Edited June 19, 2020 by jollyjones

[spinnaker2]

Hello Jolly.

I have used the towel technique during times of illness, but I never thought to put it around the pillow and then put the pillowcase on. Is that how you do it?

 

I have slept on plastic pillows too. The heat and the noise from the plastic was yucky.

 

Maybe cruiselines will spray pillows with disinfectant. 

 

 

 

 

[TLCOhio]

2 hours ago, spinnaker2 said:

Hello Jolly.  I have used the towel technique during times of illness, but I never thought to put it around the pillow and then put the pillowcase on. Is that how you do it?  I have slept on plastic pillows too. The heat and the noise from the plastic was yucky.  Maybe cruiselines will spray pillows with disinfectant. 

 

Agree with some of the great comments and follow-ups above regarding pillows.  Not sure that this current Covid-19 virus is spread that much on fabrics, BUT, that pillow can be a gross and potential "danger zone" that needs to be considered in offering safe and sanitary options for cruise customers.  Now that people are more health and safe conscious, the cruise lines will need to address these questions and make improvements.  

 

From the Travel Section of the London/UK Guardian yesterday, they had this headline: “Carnival to sell six cruise ships as bookings dry up” with this sub-head: "Holiday company loses $4.4bn in three months during coronavirus crisis". 

 

Here are some addition story highlights/details that might be of interest: “While many lines, including its British subsidiaries P&O and Cunard, have said they will pause operations until at least the autumn, Carnival hopes some business will resume from late summer, with $475m banked in bookings for 2020 sailings. It retains a total of $2.6bn in customers’ cash, with many having accepted vouchers for future sailings in 2021.  Many ships – with crew onboard – remain offshore and unable to dock because of restrictions imposed by governments. Carnival said 21,000 employees were still on its ships, about a quarter of its crew, but it expected to return most of them home by the end of June.  The company warned it would face ongoing operating and administrative costs of about $250m per month once all of its ships are in 'paused status'. Only 61 of more than 100 ships in the fleet have so far managed to reach harbour.”

 

I also found this story detail of special interest as to how it might lead to many of the first, resumed cruises to be done from "drive-to" port locations: "It expects the first cruise holidays to return 'will be from a select number of easily accessible homeports', rather than the fly-cruise market, and that its fleets will be smaller."

 

Full story at:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jun/18/carnival-sell-cruise-ships-bookings-coronavirus-pandemic-holiday

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

 

Athens & Greece: Many visuals, details from two visits in a city with great history, culture and architecture.  Now at 35,484 views.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1101008

[Stumblefoot]

55 minutes ago, TLCOhio said:

Carnival said 21,000 employees were still on its ships, about a quarter of its crew, but it expected to return most of them home by the end of June.

 

WOW!  Just absolutely unreal.

 

Does anyone know what % of SS crew remains on board their ships?

[jollyjones]

5 hours ago, spinnaker2 said:

Hello Jolly.

I have used the towel technique during times of illness, but I never thought to put it around the pillow and then put the pillowcase on. Is that how you do it?

 

I have slept on plastic pillows too. The heat and the noise from the plastic was yucky.

 

Maybe cruiselines will spray pillows with disinfectant. 

 

 

 

 

Hi Spins to you and Dr L, hope all is well,

I just wrap the towel around the pillows, that’s why I use a bath towel, it’s big enough to go right around and stay in place. It’s fine sleeping on towelling fabric. 
Please don’t ask to have a potent chemical sprayed onto pillows! I’d be much more bothered about the potential injury from inhaling the residue all night than any theoretical cross infection from another person hours/days after they’ve left the cabin and the linen has been changed. 

Edited June 19, 2020 by jollyjones

[TLCOhio]

4 hours ago, Stumblefoot said:

WOW!  Just absolutely unreal.   Does anyone know what % of SS crew remains on board their ships?

 

Excellent follow-up question from Stumblefoot as to how many of the Silversea crew remain on board.  It is an "UNREAL" situation that is super challenging for the staff members who are still on these ships three months after cruising was "frozen".   

 

From the Sydney Morning Herald and other Fairfax newspapers in Australia tomorrow (June 20),  they have this headline: “The coronavirus pandemic is accelerating, WHO chief warns” with these highlights: “The coronavirus pandemic is accelerating, with 150,000 new recorded cases in the past 24 hours the highest in a single day, the World Health Organisation (WHO) chief has  warned.  Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said nearly half of the newly reported cases were from the Americas, with significant numbers from South Asia and the Middle East.  'Many people are understandably fed up with being at home (and) countries are understandably eager to open up their societies.' But Tedros warned that measures like social distancing, mask wearing and hand-washing were still critical.”

 

Also reported was this background info: "WHO emergencies expert Mike Ryan drew attention to the situation in Brazil, where he said there had been 1230 additional COVID-19 deaths in the previous 24 hours. About 12 per cent of infections in Brazil involved healthcare workers, he added, praising their bravery. Brazil has the world's worst outbreak outside the US, with 978,142 confirmed cases and 47,748 deaths.  With trials under way around the world to find medicines and a vaccine for COVID-19, WHO officials warned that large-scale testing would be needed with side-effects carefully monitored.  The WHO confirmed on Friday that the UN agency received genetic sequences from China involving Beijing's recent coronavirus outbreak and said it appeared the virus was exported from Europe.  Michael Ryan noted that 'strains and viruses have moved around the world' throughout the virus pandemic and said the fact that a virus from Europe sparked China's latest outbreak did not mean the virus originated there."

 

From this reporting and other recent news stories, it does not seem likely that this virus is nearly under "control", nor will it be gone in only a few more weeks. These latest developments make it even more challenging for the cruise lines.  Right?

 

Full story at:

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/the-coronavirus-pandemic-is-accelerating-who-chief-warns-20200620-p554gw.html

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Lisbon, NWSpain, Bordeaux/Brittany: Live/blog, June 2017 from Portugal to France along scenic Atlantic Coast.  Now at 30,686 views.  Many interesting pictures, details for history, food, culture, etc.:

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2511358

[TLCOhio]

A key part of the "recovery" to allow cruise ships to resume operations would involve restoring airline schedules. How can you sail and experience unique parts of the world if you cannot fly to and/or return from these special parts and ports of the world?  

 

From the Wall Street Journal this morning, they had this headline: “Inside the Aviation Industry’s Toughest Battle Yet: Getting Back in the Skies” with this sub-head: "Travel bans, quarantines and other restrictions have brought travel through hubs like Heathrow Airport to a standstill". 

 

Here are some of the story highlights: “The global aviation industry is preparing to fly again. Heathrow Airport, one of the world’s biggest gateways, illustrates how hard that will be until governments decide how to allow overseas travel.  Big chunks of the U.S. and Europe are following Asia in reopening their economies as Covid-19 infection rates start to ebb. But despite signs of rebounding demand in sectors like retail, fliers so far aren’t returning to the skies in large numbers. Airlines and airports are partly blaming a standstill in international travel on governments, for not lifting travel bans, quarantines and other restrictions more quickly. Australia’s Qantas Airways Ltd. said Thursday that it was canceling most international flights through October. The move came after the Australian government indicated it would keep its borders shut to most international travelers until next year.   Heathrow is Europe’s busiest airport and No. 2 in the world in terms of international traffic, behind Dubai. It is now at the center of a divide between industry executives and government and public-health officials over how and how quickly to resume significant international air travel. The U.K., for instance, has said travelers coming into the country will be subject to a strict two-week quarantine once they land. Airlines and Heathrow have fought back, but so far the government isn’t softening its stance.  The British government says the measure is critical to prevent Covid-19 cases from entering the country.”

 

Here is another example for the airline challenges: "American Airlines expects domestic flights in July to be about 55% of its capacity compared with the same month last year. American’s international capacity, though, is expected to remain at around 20%, reflecting a patchwork of global flying bans, differing requirements around the world for quarantines for passengers, and fast-changing guidance from countries over who can fly where.  British Airways had planned to use its Heathrow hub as the launchpad for its own substantial return to service in July. Those plans are on hold, said Willie Walsh, IAG’s chief executive. Passenger traffic at Heathrow hit a nadir in April, when just 206,000 fliers moved through the facility, down from nearly seven million in the same month the year before. In May, that number only inched up to 228,000, down nearly 97% from a year ago."

 

For those in the U.K., does this sound correct as to how and why things are so challenged and limited at Heathrow?

 

Full story at:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/air-industry-fights-with-governments-over-how-to-resume-flights-11592559001?mod=hp_lista_pos2

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

 

Panama Canal? Early 2017, Fort Lauderdale to San Francisco adventure through Panama Canal.  Our first stops in Colombia, Central America and Mexico, plus added time in the great Golden Gate City. Now at 29,896 views.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2465580

[spinnaker2]

17 hours ago, jollyjones said:

Hi Spins to you and Dr L, hope all is well,

I just wrap the towel around the pillows, that’s why I use a bath towel, it’s big enough to go right around and stay in place. It’s fine sleeping on towelling fabric. 
Please don’t ask to have a potent chemical sprayed onto pillows! I’d be much more bothered about the potential injury from inhaling the residue all night than any theoretical cross infection from another person hours/days after they’ve left the cabin and the linen has been changed. 

Jolly 

We are ok here.  Hope you are well too. Looking forward to cruising again. How about March or April TA? Hope to stay sane and healthy enough to contemplate actually boarding and going SOME WHERE SOON!

 

And I agree the thought of a pillow soaked in disinfectant is off putting. But I think that it may already be a procedure in place.

 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2020 by spinnaker2

[crusinbanjo]

14 hours ago, TLCOhio said:

A key part

 All I can say is that it looks like it is going to be a long time before the new normal resembles the old normal

[Randyk47]

5 minutes ago, crusinbanjo said:

 All I can say is that it looks like it is going to be a long time before the new normal resembles the old normal

If ever.   

[pf778c]

Re:  pillows, I would think some time in a hot dryer would kill most beasties; definitely COVID.  I agree with not liking the idea of spraying toxic chemicals!

[Mahogany]

On 6/19/2020 at 7:21 AM, spinnaker2 said:

I read the Costa protocol and it is fairly comprehensive.

 

I always wonder about pillows. To me they are the grossest collector of germs and other things like drool.

Will they pitch the pillows after each guest vacates the cabin?

 

How were they sanitized in pre covid?

 

In hospital the pillows used to have plastic covers in order that they be wiped down with disinfectant.

 

When I used to travel for work so frequently I brought an inflatable travel pillow with me rather than use the pillows on the bed.

 

 

 

The throw pillows on the sofas can be a problem too, I guess. Remind me never to nap on the sofa with one of those again!

[jollyjones]

3 hours ago, spinnaker2 said:

Jolly 

We are ok here.  Hope you are well too. Looking forward to cruising again. How about March or April TA? Hope to stay sane and healthy enough to contemplate actually boarding and going SOME WHERE SOON!

 

And I agree the thought of a pillow soaked in disinfectant is off putting. But I think that it may already be a procedure in place.

 

 

 

 

Already booked on Moon TA for next March, maybe it’ll happen. Great if with you two too. 

Am also booked on Moon TA this November but not optimistic, probably will have to add it to March Shadow, June Spirit and September Whisper that I’ve already cancelled, sigh ...

I have some hopes for January Shadow but not counting on it - international air travel could prove difficult/impossible if quarantines continue. 
 

Am itching and twitching to travel, this rock is awfully small. But it’s a lot safer here than UK or US right now  so I feel very trapped despite the airport probably opening next month. 

Edited June 20, 2020 by jollyjones

[TLCOhio]

1 hour ago, Mahogany said:

The throw pillows on the sofas can be a problem too, I guess. Remind me never to nap on the sofa with one of those again!

 

Appreciate ALL of these excellent comments and follow-ups related to the questions floating around as to when and how Silversea and other cruise lines might resume sailing again.  Good warnings about being careful about those pesky piliows when away from home. I won't sleep the same way on a cruise ship again.  

 

From the top newspaper located at the center the of cruising industry in Florida, the Miami Herald had this headline yesterday afternoon: “U.S. cruises canceled through mid-September as COVID-19 outbreaks continue” with these highlights: “Summer cruising is canceled.  The cruise industry lobbying group Cruise Lines International Association announced Friday that its member lines — including South Florida-based Carnival Corporation, Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd., Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings, MSC Cruises and Virgin Voyages — will cancel U.S. cruises though September 14. Cruise ships continue to experience COVID-19 outbreaks more than three months after the industry shut down on March 13 as more than 42,000 crew members remain stuck at sea without pay. Royal Caribbean spokesperson Jonathon Fishman said the company will be sharing details about the announcement with its customers this week.”

 

Of added interest in this news story, their writer shared: "Miami-Dade Mayor Carlos Gimenez is waiving berthing fees for cruise ships at PortMiami through July 12 as many still come in to refuel and load up on food.  So far conversations between the CDC and cruise companies have focused on preventing outbreaks among crew during the hiatus, a spokesperson for the agency said, and have not yet addressed how cruising will safely resume with passengers on board."

 

My reaction/analysis?:  It does not seem that the CDC is any hurry and/or seeing a clear path forward for giving the green light to resume causing operations. Indirectly related, today's news has stories about how Major League Baseball, college football, etc., are seeing infections Covid-19 increasing as they try out ways to restart operations.   Right or wrong impression/guess?

 

Full story at: 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article243663752.html

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

 

From late 2018, see “Holy Lands, Egypt, Jordan, Oman, Dubai, Greece, etc.”, with many visuals, details and ideas for the historic and scenic Middle East. Now at 18,432 views.  Connect at:

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2607054-livenautica-greece-holy-lands-egypt-dubai-terrypix’s/

 

[cruiseej]

On 6/18/2020 at 7:22 PM, QueSeraSera said:

I've had the deepest respect for the integrity and technical know-how of the CDC since I was an undergrad on the Emory U campus.  CDC was right next door to my dorm one year.  No politics allowed here on CC, thank goodness, but I do believe they will take leadership and guide us through this.

 

Unfortunately, the view of the CDC seems to be changing. The Washington Post had a story yesterday about international experts' concerns about the growing number of cases in large parts of the US.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/06/19/countries-keeping-coronavirus-bay-experts-watch-us-case-numbers-with-alarm/

 

The most damning quote about the CDC was from a New Zealand infectious diseases specialist who said: “I’ve always thought of the CDC as a reliable and trusted source of information. Not anymore.”

 

A few other excerpts here: 

 

"As coronavirus cases surge in the U.S. South and West, health experts in countries with falling case numbers are watching with a growing sense of alarm and disbelief, with many wondering why virus-stricken U.S. states continue to reopen and why the advice of scientists is often ignored. “It really does feel like the U.S. has given up,” said Siouxsie Wiles, an infectious-diseases specialist at the University of Auckland in New Zealand — a country that has confirmed only three new cases over the past three weeks and where citizens have now largely returned to their pre-coronavirus routines."

 

“I can’t imagine what it must be like having to go to work knowing it’s unsafe,” Wiles said of the U.S.-wide economic reopening. “It’s hard to see how this ends. There are just going to be more and more people infected, and more and more deaths. It’s heartbreaking.”

 

"Commentators and experts in Europe, where cases have continued to decline, voiced concerns over the state of the U.S. response. A headline on the website of Germany’s public broadcaster read: “Has the U.S. given up its fight against coronavirus?” Switzerland’s conservative Neue Zürcher Zeitung newspaper concluded, “U.S. increasingly accepts rising covid-19 numbers.”

 

 

"Some European health experts fear that the rising U.S. caseloads are rooted in a White House response that has at times deviated from the conclusions of leading scientists."

 

“Like many other aspects of our country, the CDC’s ability to function well is being severely handicapped by the interference coming from the White House,” said Harvard epidemiologist Lipsitch. “All of us in public health very much hope that this is not a permanent condition of the CDC.” Some observers, like Wiles, the New Zealand specialist, fear the damage will be difficult to reverse.

 

[Daveywavey70]

Re pillows and cushions. In my hotel I'm buying an extra set for each room so they can be exchanged and stored for 72 hours between guests. Maybe that would be a way forward?

[spinnaker2]

7 minutes ago, Daveywavey70 said:

Re pillows and cushions. In my hotel I'm buying an extra set for each room so they can be exchanged and stored for 72 hours between guests. Maybe that would be a way forward?

DW

Maybe also throw them in the hot dryer with a dryer sheet to refluff and refresh

[Daveywavey70]

On 6/20/2020 at 9:55 PM, spinnaker2 said:

DW

Maybe also throw them in the hot dryer with a dryer sheet to refluff and refresh

 

Good idea Spinns.

[jollyjones]

Oh please, no dryer sheet, not more poisonous chemicals!

Heat is enough, no need for fake ‘perfume’ and surfactants for us to inhale. 

Why don’t you all question the health risks of all this rubbish purveyed as necessary for a clean home? Soap and water, maybe white vinegar, definitely sunshine is all you need. 
For a cruise ship, a tumble of pillows in a hot dryer is all that is needed. 

[spinnaker2]

Ok.

No dryer sheets.

How about fresh lavender from Hvar.

No chemicals.

 

Jolly 

Doesn't a surfactant destroy the fatty layer of the covid virus?

Edited June 21, 2020 by spinnaker2