You can blame the CDC, not NCL for the latest suspensions.

[JAMESCC]

The CDC is playing fair. They don't seem to even be listening to the lines. The entire thing is a joke. I'm not saying they should be sailing now but it seems there is no discussion by the two about anything meaningful

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[harkinmr]

6 minutes ago, boatseller said:

 

7 minutes ago, boatseller said:

Stop lying.  You can't prove any of these things.  And not apologizing for provable lying says a lot about you.

 

You need to find a new grocery store where you feel comfortable.  That's noone else's problem.  Just like you have the option to not cruise until you feel comfortable, but you have no standing to demand anyone else not cruise.

 

So...where did I say you should stay at home...oh, right, another total lie.  Seriously, ying about everything doesn't help your cause.  Try recommending people follow guidance and be conscentious instead of this "OMG, you're a terrible person because you don't do everything I think you should".

 

Also, check the actual guidance, you'll learn something.

"Keep in mind, if you not comfortable somewhere, don't go or stay."

 

That's what you said.  Nothing I said is a lie.  Never demanded that anyone else not cruise or not do anything else for that matter.  As you would say "prove it".  Recommending people follow guidance doesn't really work as has been proven nationwide.  And I know what the CDC guidance is and follow it.  Why don't you calm down and stop disparaging people for having a different opinion than yours.  

[Formula280SS]

17 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

The thing that everyone is missing, COVID 19 is here, and will continue to be here.  It's another virus that humans either adapt to living with, or they die trying (literally).  So, if you think you're going to go grocery shopping, go to the gas station, go to the bank, go to your church, etc and not be exposed to COVID 19, you're wrong.

 

Same with cruise ships.  Personally, I think cruise ships will be among the cleanest and virus free zones you could probably be in/on.  Anyone who has followed the cruise lines efforts to be not only cautious, but overly extremely cautious about cruising knows this.

 

From the "no self serve" at the buffets, to installing the highest air filtration systems they can use on a cruise ship, to taking temps of all passengers and crew, embarking or disembarking, at every port, to using antivirus ion diffusers throughout the ships, etc, etc, etc, I'd feel safer sailing than I would just doing my every day activities.

 

If you're that concerned, please...do not cruise.  No one will think any less of you.  However, I do feel safe cruising...safer than doing any other daily activity, quite frankly.  I will cruise.  I think 90 days is when you'll see the first ships set sail with passengers.  I hope to be on one of the first ships out of port.

 

Well composed and thoughtful post.

 

We believe everything will "change" for the better when the 2 minute tests are available (in the billions).  We wouldn't mind even paying for the tests pre-flight, pre-hotel, pre-cruise, etc.  And, yes, for those who will counter with "accuracy" etc., we understand nothing is 100% (but with redundant and repetitive immediate testing, it's a game changer).

 

Again, really good post.

[seaman11]

Florida numbers as of yesterday. Smh tell me agian its not the governers also to blame. 

Also i still am waiting test results from monday.  This is part of the problem. Do i work or not?   

 

[chipmaster]

3 minutes ago, seaman11 said:

Florida numbers as of yesterday. Smh tell me agian its not the governers also to blame. 

Also i still am waiting test results from monday.  This is part of the problem. Do i work or not?   

 

 

The virus-biology-physics doesn't care about governors, vacations, borders.

[boatseller]

9 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

"Keep in mind, if you not comfortable somewhere, don't go or stay."

 

That's what you said.  Nothing I said is a lie.  Never demanded that anyone else not cruise or not do anything else for that matter.  As you would say "prove it".  Recommending people follow guidance doesn't really work as has been proven nationwide.  And I know what the CDC guidance is and follow it.  Why don't you calm down and stop disparaging people for having a different opinion than yours.  

Lying and don't even know it.  Yep, that's exactly what I said and what you proceeded to lie about:

 

" Neither you nor anyone else has a right to restrict my movement and put me at risk of infection because you don't want to abide by the precautionary measures"

 

Complete fabrication and willful misinterpretation, that's a lie and you got caught.  You are completely free to go wherever you feel comfortable going.  No one is stopping you.  No one is restricting your movement.  And no one, including me, said they wouldn't follow the guidance.  So, yep, you lied.  Admit it and apologize.

 

Spreading falsehoods about cruising and cruisers is trying to shame us into not cruising.  Not going to work.  The theme parks are open, people are booking and paying for August/September cruises.  We're ready to cruise.

[harkinmr]

2 minutes ago, boatseller said:

Lying and don't even know it.  Yep, that's exactly what I said and what you proceeded to lie about:

 

" Neither you nor anyone else has a right to restrict my movement and put me at risk of infection because you don't want to abide by the precautionary measures"

 

Complete fabrication and willful misinterpretation, that's a lie and you got caught.  You are completely free to go wherever you feel comfortable going.  No one is stopping you.  No one is restricting your movement.  And no one, including me, said they wouldn't follow the guidance.  So, yep, you lied.  Admit it and apologize.

 

Spreading falsehoods about cruising and cruisers is trying to shame us into not cruising.  Not going to work.  The theme parks are open, people are booking and paying for August/September cruises.  We're ready to cruise.

You are just completely INSANE!!  Think what you want.  I'm just going to push the old 'Ignore' button and be done with you.  

[chengkp75]

43 minutes ago, mking8288 said:

Cruise industry, however, has yet to come up with a CDC approved plan (still in discussion) to make changes, including the HVAC, as part of the overall - enhanced infection control/universal precaution measures to respond & address threats posed by possible presence of Covid-19 onboard.  

One thing I noted in the CDC's interim guideline for control of covid cases:

 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/maritime/recommendations-for-ships.html

 

under "cleaning when covid-19 is suspected:  "No additional cleaning is needed for the ship’s supply-and-return ventilation registers or filtration systems."

[pmd98052]

43 minutes ago, Formula280SS said:

I think 90 days is when you'll see the first ships set sail with passengers.  I hope to be on one of the first ships out of port.

 

Why do you think 90 days? I was thinking similar but given Florida (and other States) massive rise in new cases I don't see it happening this year at all now.

 

The attitude of continuing re-opening with such huge daily increases and the trend going up (not down as CDC requires) is going to prevent any of cruising for a long time.

 

You only have to look at the actions of successful nations like South Korea. 50 new cases in a day. Parks/Bars/Restuarants etc all shut back down again. Florida yesterday 3,200 new cases. Nothing.

Edited June 19, 2020 by pmd98052

[seaman11]

49 minutes ago, chipmaster said:

 

The virus-biology-physics doesn't care about governors, vacations, borders.

Actions of states/countries does play a role spreading it , does it not?   

[Formula280SS]

17 minutes ago, pmd98052 said:

 

Why do you think 90 days? I was thinking similar but given Florida (and other States) massive rise in new cases I don't see it happening this year at all now.

 

The attitude of continuing re-opening with such huge daily increases and the trend going up (not down as CDC requires) is going to prevent any of cruising for a long time.

 

You only have to look at the actions of successful nations like South Korea. 50 new cases in a day. Parks/Bars/Restuarants etc all shut back down again. Florida yesterday 3,200 new cases. Nothing.

 

Please be honest and not take a quote from someone else and put by member alias on it.  Yikes.  Despicable behavior.

 

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Formula280SS

[pmd98052]

5 minutes ago, Formula280SS said:

Please be honest and not take a quote from someone else and put by member alias on it.  Yikes.  Despicable behavior.

 

I didn't do anything aside from click "quote" after highlighting some text apologies if cruise critic's forums attributed it to the wrong person!

Edited June 19, 2020 by pmd98052

[pmd98052]

12 minutes ago, seaman11 said:

Actions of states/countries does play a role spreading it , does it not?   

 

The success of countries like South Korea, New Zeland, and Taiwan (amongst others!) in their handling of the virus shows that is very much true. Compentent leadership helps.

[Formula280SS]

7 minutes ago, pmd98052 said:

 

I didn't do anything aside from click "quote" after highlighting some text apologies if cruise critic's forums attributed it to the wrong person!

 

OK, accepted.  👍

[boatseller]

1 hour ago, harkinmr said:

You are just completely INSANE!!  Think what you want.  I'm just going to push the old 'Ignore' button and be done with you.  

Yep.  When you can't handle the truth, just ignore it.  Happy Cruising!

[boatseller]

29 minutes ago, pmd98052 said:

The success of countries like South Korea, New Zeland, and Taiwan (amongst others!) in their handling of the virus shows that is very much true. Compentent leadership helps.

Hardly, swinging back and forth between open and lock down is anything but competent.  They're only delaying the inevitable.  Even North Korea will have to face the ccv eventually.

 

Phase 2 will happen and cruising will resume.  Futile prevention efforts do more harm than good.  Just follow the guidance and let's get through this as quickly as possible.

[pmd98052]

9 minutes ago, boatseller said:

Hardly, swinging back and forth between open and lock down is anything but competent.  They're only delaying the inevitable.  Even North Korea will have to face the ccv eventually.

 

Phase 2 will happen and cruising will resume.  Futile prevention efforts do more harm than good.  Just follow the guidance and let's get through this as quickly as possible.

 

 

Of course cruising will resume - no one is debating that with you. The question is when.

 

I think the success record of South Korea, Taiwan, Germany, Singapore, and New Zealand in preventing deaths and having a low rate of death/cases per capita versus the USA and UK show how far competent leadership and strategy goes in preventing deaths. The goal here is to prevent and slow the number of deaths for as long as possible until a vaccine is available. It is not to accelerate cases and kill off as many people as possible before a vaccine arrives as some USA states appear to be keen on doing from their massive spike in cases per day. The inaction after the rising daily case totals is staggering incompetence and in the case of key cruise states like FL it will prevent us all in our goal of curising for a long time.

Edited June 19, 2020 by pmd98052

[pmd98052]

Oh and news just in Apple is closing 11 stores again in Floria, North Carolina, and South Carolina due to rising cases so. Ugh.

[pmd98052]

I would also argue this chart demonstrates how some nations may be allowed to travel/cruise and citizens from others (looking at you USA and UK) will likely not be allowed to travel... Of note the entire USA line seems to be going in the wrong direction.

 

Note: USA Population: 331 million. EU population 446 million.

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by pmd98052

[boatseller]

12 minutes ago, pmd98052 said:

The goal here is to prevent and slow the number of deaths for as long as possible until a vaccine is available. 

You cannot make long term policy on the 50/50 chance there may be a possibly effective vaccine at some point in the undetermined future...that people may or many not get at some also undetermined time.

 

The only thing we need to learn from is the incompetent leadership of the northeast and some midwest States.

 

We can focus on protecting the 1,000,000 vulnerable people while the other 328,000,000 people get back to life, including cruising.

[pmd98052]

2 minutes ago, boatseller said:

You cannot make long term policy on the 50/50 chance there may be a possibly effective vaccine at some point in the undetermined future...that people may or many not get at some also undetermined time.

 

Data shows you can. US is just failing at it.

[Junonia]

On 6/18/2020 at 7:44 AM, JAMESCC said:

Yeah, Jacksonville shutting down again is very alarming. I just saw Hong Kong cancelled 1300 flights because the virus is spiking there. Cruises aren't going up resume this year I'm certain of that. Maybe late spring but who can really tell.
Astrazeneca said their vaccine is going to protect a year at a time. If I need that and proof I have taken that to cruise I will do that. Actually I will take that anyway if it's safe. I take the regular flu shot every year now after I got it seriously bad a few years ago. I'm not a nutty conspiracy guy about vaccines either so no problem as long as it's safe.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 

How are you going to know if it’s “safe”? Safe is relative. There will be zero studies showing safety data when this thing first rolls out. 

[chipmaster]

10 minutes ago, pmd98052 said:

I would also argue this chart demonstrates how some nations may be allowed to travel/cruise and citizens from others (looking at you USA and UK) will likely not be allowed to travel... Of note the entire USA line seems to be going in the wrong direction.

 

Note: USA Population: 331 million. EU population 446 million.

 

 

Data is data and doesn't care about peoples wishes for a miracle.  What matters is when presented with data does counties, states, countries have a plan to deal with it.  Biology simply doesn't care about "miracles"

 

The good thing, deaths will be more muted this time around, the hospitals and ICUs are better prepared and for better or worse the highest risk cases are fewer as well

[boatseller]

9 minutes ago, pmd98052 said:

I would also argue this chart demonstrates how some nations may be allowed to travel/cruise and citizens from others (looking at you USA and UK) will likely not be allowed to travel... Of note the entire USA line seems to be going in the wrong direction.

 

Note: USA Population: 331 million. EU population 446 million.

 

Florida alone has done the same about of testing as France, which as ~3x the population.  More tests, more detected cases.  That's all that chart shows.

[boatseller]

5 minutes ago, pmd98052 said:

Data shows you can. US is just failing at it.

Oh, you can make policy, just pointless, counterproductive total guesses called 'policy'.