"Nickel and Diming" Overuse

[SeaShark]

18 minutes ago, Falckon said:

 

Absolutely! Every company and government entity periodically asks “How can we cut costs, and/or increase profits or productivity?”. I can see a group of NCL executives sitting around a flip chart or white board, brainstorming on “How to cut costs?”. One might suggest, “If we downgrade the beef we serve in Cagney’s, we could save X amount of dollars per year.” Another could chime in, “If we use premix cocktails instead of fresh ingredients, we could save X amount of dollars per year.” Finally, one could suggest, “If we only use one olive per martini, rather than two, we could save a bundle.”

 

Fortunately, not all suggestions are adopted. I alluded to one in my prior post, when NCL announced that they were increasing the prices of most of their popular liquors, to where they exceeded the $15 limit of the drink package. The blowback was so bad that they had to scrap that plan. Most people understand the cruiseline has to make a profit. It is just that NCL is constantly raising prices and reducing services, which does not go unnoticed by the members of this discussion board.

 

Also, the reason that you hear so much complaining about “nickel-and-diming” hear is that this is a discussion board solely dedicated to one cruiseline, NCL, on Cruise CRITIC. If there were discussion boards related to the jars you mention above, I believe that you would see complaints about size reductions.

 

Rather than focusing on profits, wouldn’t it be nice if NCL executives would brainstorm on “How to increase customer satisfaction and ensure customer loyalty?”.

 

Probably should have read post #88 before you capitalized and underlined half the name of the website.

[4774Papa]

On 6/22/2020 at 12:33 AM, Love my butler said:

Let me explain it so you can fully understand.  Most people do not like every single thing about a company or a product.  Some may like most but get irritated by some issues.  Other may like just a few things and are upset by many facets of the product or business model.  That usually does not mean they will absolutely not purchase the product of patronize the business.  They will be critical of certain aspects they dislike or think are unethical or deceptive.  Often they will visit a forum, such as Cruise CRITIC and point out these issues.  You do understand the forum you are currently in right? For you to complain there are people here being critical of NCL is the height of hilarity.  For every person critical of NCL on these boards there are probably three cheerleaders who think NCL can do no wrong.  (Like the post I quoted)

Yes, NCL as do other cruise lines have their strengths and weaknesses.

 

NCL's entertainment is excellent.  We also find Royal Caribbean to have excellent entertainment.

NCL has some fun activities where passengers participate and those can be hilarious.  Haven't seen that on other lines.

 

NCL's dining doesn't match Celebrity and even Royal C. is a bit better, but it is still good enough if you get a great deal on a cruise.

 

What bugs me the most about NCL is that I book early, frequently as soon as a cruise is announced.  NCL doesn't allow booking without perks until close to the cruise, so their bundled pricing with perks that we don't want price them out of competition.  We haven't done an NCL cruise since 2018.  

[Falckon]

50 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

 

Probably should have read post #88 before you capitalized and underlined half the name of the website.

 

I did read your post, as well as Post 89, and thought it was a good idea. That's why I used it. I'm sorry for not giving you credit in my post.

[MNcruisingcouple]

1 hour ago, 4774Papa said:

Yes, NCL as do other cruise lines have their strengths and weaknesses.

 

NCL's entertainment is excellent.  We also find Royal Caribbean to have excellent entertainment.

NCL has some fun activities where passengers participate and those can be hilarious.  Haven't seen that on other lines.

 

NCL's dining doesn't match Celebrity and even Royal C. is a bit better, but it is still good enough if you get a great deal on a cruise.

 

What bugs me the most about NCL is that I book early, frequently as soon as a cruise is announced.  NCL doesn't allow booking without perks until close to the cruise, so their bundled pricing with perks that we don't want price them out of competition.  We haven't done an NCL cruise since 2018.  

 

This is exactly the kind of research I'm talking about!  You know your priorities.  You want to be able to book early and NCL perks aren't of value to you.  And you can do the math to compare the different lines to see which one provides you with the most value.  Then you base your decision on that.  Perfect example of an informed consumer.

[diplomats]

I hesitate to jump into the conversation about "Terms and Conditions" but once again I am confused by the discussion here and the information I find on the NCL website.  As part of the "package" we have booked for next February, we have "Specialty Dining Package" for 2 events.  I have read the T&C for "Specialty Dining Packages" and for each of the ala Carte venues and find no specific information about  restrictions on ordering as described in several posts on this thread.  Looking at the Menu tabs on the ala carte venue, the uncharges are clearly marked on certain items, e.g. "surf and turf" but there is no guidance on restrictions concerning appetizers, etc.  Why am I confused?? 

[Falckon]

8 minutes ago, diplomats said:

I hesitate to jump into the conversation about "Terms and Conditions" but once again I am confused by the discussion here and the information I find on the NCL website.  As part of the "package" we have booked for next February, we have "Specialty Dining Package" for 2 events.  I have read the T&C for "Specialty Dining Packages" and for each of the ala Carte venues and find no specific information about  restrictions on ordering as described in several posts on this thread.  Looking at the Menu tabs on the ala carte venue, the uncharges are clearly marked on certain items, e.g. "surf and turf" but there is no guidance on restrictions concerning appetizers, etc.  Why am I confused?? 

 

The restrictions are on the free dinners provided to Platinum level Latitudes members and above.

[Waquoit]

On 6/20/2020 at 11:28 PM, SeaShark said:

It comes from the fact that it is easier to label it "deceptive business practices" rather than admit that you either don't understand, or that you need to be told, that if you want to buy something extra that you need to pay for it.

Yup, everyone's an idiot but you. What you "seasoned" cruisers seem to forget is many of us don't think we should have to work that hard to get decent treatment. I think the casual cruiser is done with this nonsense for awhile. You guys are going to have to take up the slack to keep these cruise lines going.

[SeaShark]

1 hour ago, Waquoit said:

Yup, everyone's an idiot but you. What you "seasoned" cruisers seem to forget is many of us don't think we should have to work that hard to get decent treatment. I think the casual cruiser is done with this nonsense for awhile. You guys are going to have to take up the slack to keep these cruise lines going.

 

Wow...107 posts in the thread and you're the first one to throw out "idiot".

 

Does attacking something with a pejorative label somehow make you right? Asking for a friend . . .

 

Even IF that were the case, I certainly wouldn't say "everyone"...I find that many people here have a comprehensive understanding of the benefits of hard work.  Of course, there are also those who believe that the lack of hard work entitles them to free, free, free...but those are the privileged few.

[Waquoit]

2 hours ago, SeaShark said:

 

Wow...107 posts in the thread and you're the first one to throw out "idiot".

Does attacking something with a pejorative label somehow make you right? Asking for a friend . . .

Do you have any reading comprehension?

[bigrednole]

From someone that hasn't cruised and looking at options if my cruise in Nov gets canceled, there are several NCL itineraries I am looking at. Currently, they have the Free At Sea. This gives free drink package for everyone, free wifi, free specialty dining for Guest 1 and 2 in the room. At the end of checkout, there is a price: Cruise + Taxes/Port Cahrges + Gratuities. Under the assumption we don't buy anything on the cruise, this means my bill when we debark will be $0. Drinks, all dining, specialty dining, tips, taxes, etc are all paid.

 

Am I understanding the NCL Free At Sea correctly? If so, then there is no nickel and diming. Everything I want is included in my invoice. Obviously there are extas like specialty dining with our child since she would not be include as Guest 1 and Guest 2. But more in general, my understanding seems right.

[Newleno]

7 minutes ago, bigrednole said:

From someone that hasn't cruised and looking at options if my cruise in Nov gets canceled, there are several NCL itineraries I am looking at. Currently, they have the Free At Sea. This gives free drink package for everyone, free wifi, free specialty dining for Guest 1 and 2 in the room. At the end of checkout, there is a price: Cruise + Taxes/Port Cahrges + Gratuities. Under the assumption we don't buy anything on the cruise, this means my bill when we debark will be $0. Drinks, all dining, specialty dining, tips, taxes, etc are all paid.

 

Am I understanding the NCL Free At Sea correctly? If so, then there is no nickel and diming. Everything I want is included in my invoice. Obviously there are extas like specialty dining with our child since she would not be include as Guest 1 and Guest 2. But more in general, my understanding seems right.

The popular phrase 'nickel and dime" really comes from  many complaints over the years, one such complaint is the deceiving marketing of the "fee at sea" program, it is not free, not even close to being free.  All one has to do is do a mock booking of a sailaway cabin vs a mock booking of  "fee at sea" cabin.  Then you will understand why some call it "the old nickel and dime routine, beware".  To each their own but beware of the marketing term FREE, cause it is not.

[bigrednole]

3 minutes ago, Newleno said:

"fee at sea" 

I understand that. Mine was more of a general question with the Free At Sea. I know it is not "free". What it does show me though is nearly everything we would pay for from another cruise line which each are an add-on. To give an example, here is what our Nov HotS cost.

 

Cruise/Taxes ($2,600) + Drink Package ($775) + Tips ($350) + The Key ($420) = ~$4,200

 

NCL Joy Free At Sea: Cruise/Taxes/Gratuity/Free At Sea = $$3,660. 

 

That is ~$550 in savings. All I am really trying to verify is if absolutely nothing else is spent on either cruise, this is the baseline numbers.

[Falckon]

20 minutes ago, bigrednole said:

From someone that hasn't cruised and looking at options if my cruise in Nov gets canceled, there are several NCL itineraries I am looking at. Currently, they have the Free At Sea. This gives free drink package for everyone, free wifi, free specialty dining for Guest 1 and 2 in the room. At the end of checkout, there is a price: Cruise + Taxes/Port Cahrges + Gratuities. Under the assumption we don't buy anything on the cruise, this means my bill when we debark will be $0. Drinks, all dining, specialty dining, tips, taxes, etc are all paid.

 

Am I understanding the NCL Free At Sea correctly? If so, then there is no nickel and diming. Everything I want is included in my invoice. Obviously there are extas like specialty dining with our child since she would not be include as Guest 1 and Guest 2. But more in general, my understanding seems right.

 

Unfortunately, your understanding is not quite right. There is the Daily Service Charge (DSC) which wil be on your invoice if you don't pay in advance.

For bookings made on or after April 1, 2020, that prepay their service charges before their sail date:

• • $18.50 USD per person per day for The Haven, Concierge and Suites;
  • $15.50 USD per person per day for all other stateroom types

[bigrednole]

In the bookings I just checked, those DSC or gratuities are in the total number. Maybe I did not make that clear.

[Falckon]

4 minutes ago, bigrednole said:

In the bookings I just checked, those DSC or gratuities are in the total number. Maybe I did not make that clear.

 

Gratuities are not the same as the DSC.

[bigrednole]

23 minutes ago, Falckon said:

 

Gratuities are not the same as the DSC.

Thank you for pointing that out. Maybe it is not nickel and diming, but it is deceptive in the pricing. When they state that it is all your gratuities, someone new like me, and I did, believed that if I booked I was done paying anything unless I make a separate purchase onboard. I would have been caught completely off guard with the additional ~$315 charge.

[Falckon]

20 minutes ago, bigrednole said:

Thank you for pointing that out. Maybe it is not nickel and diming, but it is deceptive in the pricing. When they state that it is all your gratuities, someone new like me, and I did, believed that if I booked I was done paying anything unless I make a separate purchase onboard. I would have been caught completely off guard with the additional ~$315 charge.

 

As a new cruiser, you really can't understand the concept of nickle-and-diming. It is a series of reduced services and increased costs, sometimes very small, that occur over the years, and from cruise to cruise, that only repeat cruisers can notice. I have listed a few in Post # 90. 

 

Don't get me wrong. I love cruising with NCL. My wife and I have sailed NCL exclusively since 2007, usually twice a year. I'm sure that you will love your cruise as well.

 

Just a little advice to the new cruiser. Although it is possible to not incur any additional costs on a cruise, it is highly unlikely. If you haven't, you should thoroughly read the FAQs found here https://www.ncl.com/faq . Hopefully, sailing will resume soon. Enjoy your cruise.

[Smokeyham]

I'd like to provide a different perspective to many that I am reading here.  I've sailed on Norwegian and liked many aspects of the cruise, but did feel some of the "nickel and diming" frustration that is expressed elsewhere.   

This has more to do with what felt like a strong sales environment on board.  The sale of gold chain by the foot in the atrium.  The constant "would you like a drink" requests from staff in the pool area, and the numerous announcements for events.   Of course, we did not have purchase/partake in anything, but in comparison to other lines I did feel like the push to buy things was more prevalent on NCL than what we experienced on HAL and Princess.  I think NCL is a good line, as long as you understand that your lower initial cost will come with some additional sales pressure once you are on board.

 

What I do think is unfortunate is that cruising is still portrayed as an all-inclusive activity and although what is, and is not, included is listed on the website a new cruiser could well miss that and be disappointed once on board.

 

 

Edited June 28, 2020 by Smokeyham

[MNcruisingcouple]

2 hours ago, bigrednole said:

Thank you for pointing that out. Maybe it is not nickel and diming, but it is deceptive in the pricing. When they state that it is all your gratuities, someone new like me, and I did, believed that if I booked I was done paying anything unless I make a separate purchase onboard. I would have been caught completely off guard with the additional ~$315 charge.

 

They don't claim that the DSC is included.  The gratuities that you see on the price breakdown page are for the beverage package and the dining package.  When you get to the price breakdown information, it specifically says that they are gratuities on the Free at Sea offers.  I just checked several other cruise lines and they don't include the DSC on their price breakdown either unless you check the box to prepay. 

[DCGuy64]

I certainly don't like nickel and diming, on any line. But I *do* like being able to prepay things as much as possible so there are no hidden charges. We just booked our first NCL cruise and we prepaid the gratuities for the specialty dining and UBP,  as well the DSC. As far as I can tell, we won't have to pay anything extra once onboard except for anything we buy that's extra. For example, if I decide to do the go karts, buy specialty coffee or fresh juice (that isn't covered by the UBP), or gift shop items, etc. When we were doing comparisons to other lines, some of them at first seemed cheaper, but when I factored in the cost of the Free at Sea offers, NCL was actually cheaper. Also, unlike MSC (which we like a lot), NCL allows people with the unlimited beverage package to pay the difference between included drinks (up to $15) and the more expensive ones. MSC makes you pay the full cost of the premium stuff. So that $19 glass of bubbly would cost me $4 plus gratuity on NCL while on MSC it'd be 19$ + gratuity. Certainly something to consider when comparing cruise lines.