CDC Double Standard

[AnyMajorCruiseDude]

2 minutes ago, npcl said:

If you are breathing and talking to someone within 6-7 feet you should definitely be wearing one.

Correct.  Thank you.

[Lazz]

On 7/5/2020 at 12:24 PM, billco said:

Of the 3,000,000 American cases of Corona Virus, I wonder how many were caught from someone wearing a mask.

If Japan or China are any indication, masks are not much help.  In the end, the younger population will get us all herd immunity in spite of any masks or shutdown mandates. I will say that correlation does not mean causation, and that goes both ways.

https://www.dw.com/en/china-puts-500000-in-lockdown-as-coronavirus-cases-rise-again/a-53972118

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/floods-batter-japan-as-virus-cases-surge-in-tokyo/1901061

[SinbadThePorter]

2 hours ago, Lazz said:

If Japan or China are any indication, masks are not much help. 

 

Neither of your links have anything to say about masks. I think you must be assuming that everyone in China and Japan are wearing them and that as a result masks aren't preventing second wave infections.

 

That is an assumption, it is far more likely that the lifting of restrictions led to increases in covid-19 cases.

 

 

[npcl]

3 hours ago, Lazz said:

If Japan or China are any indication, masks are not much help.  In the end, the younger population will get us all herd immunity in spite of any masks or shutdown mandates. I will say that correlation does not mean causation, and that goes both ways.

https://www.dw.com/en/china-puts-500000-in-lockdown-as-coronavirus-cases-rise-again/a-53972118

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/floods-batter-japan-as-virus-cases-surge-in-tokyo/1901061

A study of both NYC and Italy looking at the timing and spread came to the conclusion that social distancing and the lock down was not sufficient to change the curve in a major way, but that substantial change in the new infection rate took place once masks became mandatory in public.  Another study indicated that much of the economic shutdown would not have been necessary if a mandatory mask requirement was put in place instead in conjunction with social distancing.

 

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by npcl

[npcl]

For those that doubt masks work

 

https://www.pnas.org/content/117/26/14857

 

Identifying airborne transmission as the dominant route for the spread of COVID-19

 

 We conclude that wearing of face masks in public corresponds to the most effective means to prevent interhuman transmission, and this inexpensive practice, in conjunction with simultaneous social distancing, quarantine, and contact tracing, represents the most likely fighting opportunity to stop the COVID-19 pandemic. 

 

It is not the only study

 

 a review of 172 observational studies published earlier this month in The Lancet also concluded that wearing face masks or coverings can help curb the risk of coronavirus infection and transmission, the Post reports. Holger Schünemann, a co-author of the review and an epidemiologist and physician at McMaster University, said the review indicated that, "n multiple ways … the use of masks is highly protective in health care and community settings."

 

 

 

 

While there are not any randomized controlled trials on mask use the evidence is growing.  Most of the literature criticizing masks use discussed using masks in a health care environment, where health care workers deal with infected individuals in close proximity.  In such virus rich environments cloth masks would clearly not be sufficient and N95, together with other PPE would be warranted.  However the mask use we are talking about is not in that environment.  It is designed to reduce the distance traveled by virus from one individual to another, improving the effectiveness of social distancing.

 

Or to put it simply if both individuals are masked that 6 foot distance becomes the unmasked equivalent of 12 feet depending upon the material used.

Edited July 8, 2020 by npcl

[HappyInVan]

7 hours ago, Lazz said:

If Japan or China are any indication, masks are not much help.  In the end, the younger population will get us all herd immunity in spite of any masks or shutdown mandates.

 

Let's look at the numbers. China screened the entire population of Beijing (pop 10m) to discover a couple of hundred cases. Japan never locked down. Currently, a lot of concern over a hundred cases per day. Looks to me like masks work very well.

 

Toronto is mandating masks when indoor in public places. Same as Texas. They've realized that unchecked epidemic will lead to economic collapse. Perhaps, even disruption of essential services.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/02/texas-issues-state-wide-order-requiring-face-coverings.html

 

There is simply no alternative to masks if we are to return to 'normal' public life.

 

BTW, the herd immunity idea is dead as a dodo. In Sweden, they're going to change direction.

 

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-sweden-inquiry-cases-084408740.html

 

In Georgia, antibody tests are only 5.2% positive. Arizona only 3.4%, Florida 4%. Most people (young and old) will not allow themselves to get infected. Ask yourself this. Why aren't you infected yet?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by HappyInVan

[Lazz]

8 hours ago, npcl said:

A study of both NYC and Italy looking at the timing and spread came to the conclusion that social distancing and the lock down was not sufficient to change the curve in a major way, but that substantial change in the new infection rate took place once masks became mandatory in public.  Another study indicated that much of the economic shutdown would not have been necessary if a mandatory mask requirement was put in place instead in conjunction with social distancing.

 

 

All these studies just show correlation.  No causation.  You can make studies and statistics say anything thing you want them to say.  Fauci himself quickly takes a mask off when he thinks he is not on camera.  I want you to consider the theory of Behavioral Priming as it would pertain to everything that has been published and or advertised considering what we are asked to do or not do during the Pandemic situation.  One thing I have noticed where I live is that people are less apprehensive  about being out in the community when everyone is wearing a mask.  Perception is reality.  Something had to be done to get people out of that "shelter in place" mode that was primed into them earlier in March.  

https://tomnikkola.com/prime/?fbclid=IwAR2Ql8y1E0rcXB7tsdXdEw0g5pvRnhm-mlR2VTGWCrVGWMzXxqs9dZxDcJc

 

 

[SinbadThePorter]

4 minutes ago, Lazz said:

All these studies just show correlation.  No causation. 

 

We also have a mechanism. We know how masks work and why they have worked for other airborne diseases.

 

A correlation with a mechanism gives you good reason to assume causation until better evidence says otherwise.

[wowzz]

19 minutes ago, SinbadThePorter said:

 

We also have a mechanism. We know how masks work and why they have worked for other airborne diseases.

 

A correlation with a mechanism gives you good reason to assume causation until better evidence says otherwise.

https://content.invisioncic.com/j283755/monthly_2020_07/Screenshot_20200708-131655_Twitter.jpg.1583186fbb2c92c191691c67573ed4c9.jpg

[HappyInVan]

1 hour ago, Lazz said:

 Perception is reality.  Something had to be done to get people out of that "shelter in place" mode that was primed into them earlier in March.  

https://tomnikkola.com/prime/?fbclid=IwAR2Ql8y1E0rcXB7tsdXdEw0g5pvRnhm-mlR2VTGWCrVGWMzXxqs9dZxDcJc

 

 

 

The problem with this debate is that on one side are the people who depend on data/logic, led by medical professionals and scientists. On the other side are the people with bright ideas but are  analytically challenged.

 

Take this fallacy that you can generate herd immunity by infecting the young. In the real world, animals achieve herd immunity by allowing the weak and vulnerable to die. The strong and immune survive to pass on their genes. That is natural selection.

 

I can see no evidence to support your POV. You can criticize the mainstream consensus, but people are dying every day.

 

 

 

 

[WAMarathoner]

Some good news -- the CDC page is showing that the pandemic is on the threshold of being declassified as such.

 

"Based on death certificate data, the percentage of deaths attributed to pneumonia, influenza or COVID-19 (PIC) decreased from 9.0% during week 25 to 5.9% during week 26, representing the tenth week of a declining percentage of deaths due to PIC. The percentage is currently at the epidemic threshold but will likely change as more death certificates are processed, particularly for recent weeks."

 

Also, notice that they're now including pneumonia and influenza into the same pool -- and it's still declining.  The death rate is the key indicator.  Check your county's stats here: infection2020.com.  Use the 'deaths' and 'log' and 'past 14 days' tabs.

[SinbadThePorter]

10 hours ago, wowzz said:

https://content.invisioncic.com/j283755/monthly_2020_07/Screenshot_20200708-131655_Twitter.jpg.1583186fbb2c92c191691c67573ed4c9.jpg

 

That link refers to an argument over whether covid-19 is transferred as virus particles and not, as most experts presently think, inside expelled cough droplets.

 

She's arguing in favour of droplets and hence of the efficacy of masks.

[caribill]

12 hours ago, WAMarathoner said:

Some good news -- the CDC page is showing that the pandemic is on the threshold of being declassified as such.

 

 

What they call it makes no difference since:

(a) New cases in the USA are at a record level and climbing.

(b) Many other countries will not let those from the USA into their countries because of (a).

 

Even if it was no longer a problem in most other countries and thus no longer a pandemic, that does not change how it is affecting people in the USA.

[HappyInVan]

Could the doctors be right? Distancing is necessary and masks save lives!

 

"More than 40 Florida hospitals in multiple counties across the state have maxed out their ICU capacity or are close to running out of intensive care beds, according to the state’s Agency for Health Care Administration."

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/07/coronavirus-strains-florida-health-system-as-some-hospitals-run-out-of-icu-beds-in-largest-counties.html

 

[PrincessLuver]

4 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

Could the doctors be right? Distancing is necessary and masks save lives!

 

"More than 40 Florida hospitals in multiple counties across the state have maxed out their ICU capacity or are close to running out of intensive care beds, according to the state’s Agency for Health Care Administration."

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/07/coronavirus-strains-florida-health-system-as-some-hospitals-run-out-of-icu-beds-in-largest-counties.html

 

 

The problem with the USA is that it culturally has always been anti-scientific and anti-intellectual because we know everything whether it is fact or not (ie...Anti-Vaxers)....so no amount of hard evidence is going to convince the COVVID-19 denier crowd that a problem exists....we are a Head in the Sand Nation as of late.....that's why so many think it will be no problem for the cruise lines to resume cruising when this little flu bug disappears magically....

Edited July 9, 2020 by PrincessLuver