Reducing the RCCL Fleet, Before or After the Start-up?

[livingonthebeach]

48 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Just curious

 Were any of those new builds for Holland, or were they all aquisitions after the last downturn in 2008

 

Looks like they were new builds, but maybe a HAL expert can chime in.  The Rotterdam and Amsterdam were sold to Fred Olsen and the Maasdam and Veendam were sold to an undisclosed buyer. 

[chipmaster]

On 7/14/2020 at 10:47 AM, Jimbo said:

Anyone care to guess and how many ships and which ones?

 

Maybe they got a new secret plan for world wide market share domination as Carnival reduces capacity RCCL will expand, yeah right.

[ladylyn915]

3 hours ago, cgolf1 said:

 

While we have only sailed Brilliance once, it is in a 3 way tie for our favorite ship, 3 since there is no such thing as a perfect ship, but Brilliance came very close for us. We instantly felt at home on the ship, loved the outdoor seating for the buffet, it is just a great ship. The only problem we had was they had an amazing rock cover band, Kronos (spelling), that packed the atrium to the point there wasn't a seat to be had multiple floors up. We skipped stage shows to listen to them, they were amazing. They just needed a bigger venue for them.

 

I understand the bigger ship thing, but they are just not for us.

We love listening to music all over the ship - The Atrium, the Piano Bar, Schooners.  My first cruise was in 1994 on the Big Red Boat (the old Oceanic)- I don't remember much about it but the cabin was huge!  Many cruises later on multiple lines and we have enjoyed all of them - just some a bit more.  Back in the Day when it was just my husband and me, we favored Princess and Celebrity.  Once the Grandchildren arrived and we started whole family cruise vacations, we chose Carnival.  We still do Carnival, but in the last few years, we have moved onto RCCL and the larger ships because they had more for the kids.  We decided to try the Brilliance because among the ports was Perfect Day Coco Cay which looks awesome!  We expect the cruise to be Epic - now we just need this pesky virus to go away.....

[Hoopster95]

A further thought ... not far fetched that all Radiance Class and below will be gone from the fleet in the next few years

 

 

 

2020 today:     26 ships in the fleet - pre-Covid19 fleet list:

 

Empress  ... 1990-2008 = 18 yrs                  Voyager ... 1999 (21 yrs old)

Majesty ... 1992-2016 = 24 yrs                    Explorer ... 2000 (20 years old)

Grandeur ... 1996-2021 = 25 yrs                 Radiance & Adventure ... 2001 (19 years old)

Enchantment ... 23 yrs                                 Navigator &  Brilliance ... 2002 (18 years old)

Rhapsody ... 23 yrs                                       Serenade & Mariner ...  2003 (17 years old)

Vision ... 22 yrs                                             Jewel ... 2004 (16 years old)

 

Freedom ...    2006 (14 yrs old)                                   Quantum ... 2014 (6 yrs old)         

Liberty ... 2007 (13 yrs old)                                         Anthem ... 2015 (5 yrs old)                     

Indy ... 2008 (12 yrs old)                                              Harmony & Ovation ... 2016 (4 yrs old)

Oasis ... 2009 (11 yrs old)                                           Symphony ... 2018 (2 yrs old)

Allure ... 2010 (10 yrs old)                                          Spectrum ... 2019 (1 yr old)

 

 

Post Covid19 fleet - 22 ships in 2025?

Voyager (25 yrs old in 2022!!!), Explorer, Adventure, Navigator, Mariner

Freedom, Liberty, Indy

Oasis, Allure, Harmony, Symphony, Wonder,

Quantum, Anthem, Ovation, Spectrum, Melody

Upcoming 6th Oasis class on order (due 2023)

upcoming 3 Icon Class ships (due 2022, 2023 & 2025)

[Another_Critic]

1 hour ago, Hoopster95 said:

Quantum, Anthem, Ovation, Spectrum, Melody

 

Odyssey, not Melody.

[Hoopster95]

1 minute ago, Another_Critic said:

 

Odyssey, not Melody.

 

Agh! Thank you. I missed that error. Melody was initially proposed to be the name of "Wonder"... I still have  Melody in my brain.

 

Post Covid19 fleet - 22 ships in 2025?

Voyager (25 yrs old in 2022!!!), Explorer, Adventure, Navigator, Mariner

Freedom, Liberty, Indy

Oasis, Allure, Harmony, Symphony, Wonder

Quantum, Anthem, Ovation, Spectrum, Odyssey

Upcoming 6th Oasis class on order (due 2023... "Melody"?)

upcoming 3 Icon Class ships (due 2022, 2023 & 2025)

 

[TXHappyCruiser]

I think you will definitely see a big push towards the larger ships going forward.  They bring in a premium cruise fare and can sail at a much lower capacity and still make money.  That will be key to getting back to profitable. 

[Jack McGowan]

4 hours ago, Hoopster95 said:

A further thought ... not far fetched that all Radiance Class and below will be gone from the fleet in the next few years

 

 

 

2020 today:     26 ships in the fleet - pre-Covid19 fleet list:

 

Empress  ... 1990-2008 = 18 yrs                  Voyager ... 1999 (21 yrs old)

Majesty ... 1992-2016 = 24 yrs                    Explorer ... 2000 (20 years old)

Grandeur ... 1996-2021 = 25 yrs                 Radiance & Adventure ... 2001 (19 years old)

Enchantment ... 23 yrs                                 Navigator &  Brilliance ... 2002 (18 years old)

Rhapsody ... 23 yrs                                       Serenade & Mariner ...  2003 (17 years old)

Vision ... 22 yrs                                             Jewel ... 2004 (16 years old)

 

Freedom ...    2006 (14 yrs old)                                   Quantum ... 2014 (6 yrs old)         

Liberty ... 2007 (13 yrs old)                                         Anthem ... 2015 (5 yrs old)                     

Indy ... 2008 (12 yrs old)                                              Harmony & Ovation ... 2016 (4 yrs old)

Oasis ... 2009 (11 yrs old)                                           Symphony ... 2018 (2 yrs old)

Allure ... 2010 (10 yrs old)                                          Spectrum ... 2019 (1 yr old)

 

 

Post Covid19 fleet - 22 ships in 2025?

Voyager (25 yrs old in 2022!!!), Explorer, Adventure, Navigator, Mariner

Freedom, Liberty, Indy

Oasis, Allure, Harmony, Symphony, Wonder,

Quantum, Anthem, Ovation, Spectrum, Melody

Upcoming 6th Oasis class on order (due 2023)

upcoming 3 Icon Class ships (due 2022, 2023 & 2025)

Interesting ideas there, I just can’t see any radiance class ships leaving until the majority (if not all) the vision class has gone. I just can’t see them getting rid of that many ships, at least at the moment. If we get to the end of the year and the situation hasn’t improved then that would be a different story. 
 

im wondering what will happen with Grandeur though, other than being scrapped I can see the only other option being transferred to Marella Cruises atm.  

[AtlantaCruiser72]

7 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Looks like they were new builds, but maybe a HAL expert can chime in.  The Rotterdam and Amsterdam were sold to Fred Olsen and the Maasdam and Veendam were sold to an undisclosed buyer. 

 

7 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Just curious

 Were any of those new builds for Holland, or were they all aquisitions after the last downturn in 2008

 

All 4 vessels were new builds for Holland America - Massdam in 1993, Veendam in 1996, Rotterdam in 1997 and Amsterdam in 2000.  The remaining fleet will still have two smaller vessels (60K tons and 1400ish passengers) - Volendam and Zaandam built in 1999 that are identical twins and less premium heavy (fewer full suites) than sister ships Rotterdam and Amsterdam.  The remainder of the fleet are all newbuilds (Vista, Signature and Pinnacle Classes) that were built between 2002-2021and range from 80-99K tons and 2100-2600 per vessel (comparable to Radiance Class with Royal).  Keeping the 2 smaller ships will allow them to continue to operate their most profitable extended voyages -  Annual World Cruise, Grand Africa, Grand south america, Grand Asia, etc. while still keeping their bread and butter Alaska/Europe deployments relatively intact.  Some other regions will most likely see a reduction in sailings - Hawaii/Tahiti, 10 night Mexico, Panama Canal, Caribbean, Canada/NE etc.

 

Maasdam and Veendam are rumored to join their sisters (former Statendam and Ryndam) under the German division of CMV (Cruise & Maritime Voyages).

[AtlantaCruiser72]

27 minutes ago, Jack McGowan said:

I'm wondering what will happen with Grandeur though, other than being scrapped I can see the only other option being transferred to Marella Cruises atm.  

 

There is a chance RCG could change plans and retain Grandeur in the fleet (since they pulled the Plug on Pullmantour) and transfer/sell/scrap Majesty and/or Empress.

[TeeRick]

19 hours ago, Hoopster95 said:

A further thought ... not far fetched that all Radiance Class and below will be gone from the fleet in the next few years

 

 

 

2020 today:     26 ships in the fleet - pre-Covid19 fleet list:

 

Empress  ... 1990-2008 = 18 yrs                  Voyager ... 1999 (21 yrs old)

Majesty ... 1992-2016 = 24 yrs                    Explorer ... 2000 (20 years old)

Grandeur ... 1996-2021 = 25 yrs                 Radiance & Adventure ... 2001 (19 years old)

Enchantment ... 23 yrs                                 Navigator &  Brilliance ... 2002 (18 years old)

Rhapsody ... 23 yrs                                       Serenade & Mariner ...  2003 (17 years old)

Vision ... 22 yrs                                             Jewel ... 2004 (16 years old)

 

Freedom ...    2006 (14 yrs old)                                   Quantum ... 2014 (6 yrs old)         

Liberty ... 2007 (13 yrs old)                                         Anthem ... 2015 (5 yrs old)                     

Indy ... 2008 (12 yrs old)                                              Harmony & Ovation ... 2016 (4 yrs old)

Oasis ... 2009 (11 yrs old)                                           Symphony ... 2018 (2 yrs old)

Allure ... 2010 (10 yrs old)                                          Spectrum ... 2019 (1 yr old)

 

 

Post Covid19 fleet - 22 ships in 2025?

Voyager (25 yrs old in 2022!!!), Explorer, Adventure, Navigator, Mariner

Freedom, Liberty, Indy

Oasis, Allure, Harmony, Symphony, Wonder,

Quantum, Anthem, Ovation, Spectrum, Melody

Upcoming 6th Oasis class on order (due 2023)

upcoming 3 Icon Class ships (due 2022, 2023 & 2025)

I know this this is the Royal Caribbean forum but as I pointed out in my previous post I think parent company RCG will look at this more holistically across all of its ships (including Celebrity, Azamara, Silversea).  It is more complex than just looking at the Royal ships and upcoming builds.