Reducing the RCCL Fleet, Before or After the Start-up?

[twangster]

10 minutes ago, zekekelso said:

 

Just a thought... what would happen if one of the older cruise ships "accidentally" crashed into the bridge. Ship sinks, so you don't have to scrap it, maybe there's even some insurance, and the bridge gets rebuilt taller, or not at all. Everybody wins !

 

Yeah but the new artificial reef blocks the shipping channel. 

 

I guess if you're going to pull out of Baltimore might as well stymie the competition.  

Edited July 15, 2020 by twangster

[John&LaLa]

52 minutes ago, zekekelso said:

 

Just a thought... what would happen if one of the older cruise ships "accidentally" crashed into the bridge. Ship sinks, so you don't have to scrap it, maybe there's even some insurance, and the bridge gets rebuilt taller, or not at all. Everybody wins !

 

Except the 35 folks who die when they fall off the bridge. 

 

SMH

Edited July 15, 2020 by John&LaLa

[zekekelso]

11 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Except the folks who die when they fall off the bridge. 

 

SMH

They land in the pool on the lido deck and get a free margarita. Duh. I’m not some sort of monster. 

[John&LaLa]

2 minutes ago, zekekelso said:

They land in the pool on the lido deck and get a free margarita. Duh. I’m not some sort of monster. 

 

https://www.tampabay.com/news/2020/05/06/the-sunshine-skyway-bridge-plunged-into-tampa-bay-40-years-ago/

 

Sometimes they miss

 

 

[Sunshine3601]

17 hours ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

I had an idea several years ago, posted it a few times on threads like this...

RC's theme is family cruising on inner-focused mega ships, spend money on board and not on shore, etc. Who cares about the ports... the ship is the main draw. The itinerary is consideration #22 on the list after dining options, lounges, types of suites, entertainment, etc etc etc etc. Any ship class under Voyager Class does not fit at all with what RC has been selling to the public for years. It's all about Oasis Class, Q Class and Icon going forward.... with Navigator/Mariner doing the cheapo 3/4 day "booze-cruises" that Majesty/Monarch did for years. Now Voyager Class take over as the less modern ships and much older sisters to the bigger girls in the fleet. 

 

How's this for a bold statement:

Empress, Majesty, Vision, Rhapsody, Grandeur & Enchantment either sold or scrapped (gone and no longer part of RCG)

All Radiance Class ships transferred/sold to a subsidiary, ie. like a restructured Pullmantur. (still part of RCG)

 

No more Vision or Radiance ships whatsoever in the new fleet.

It's all about how many ships, (and people $$$$$) can fit into CocoCay and Labadee on the same day.

IMO , if this happened I would sail with other cruise lines that offer the mid size ship experience.   It would be very difficult to do that but if that is what we need to do to avoid being a ship with over 6000 people.    I like the Anthem but I just haven't fallen in love with any of the ships bigger than Anthem.   Our favorites are Serenade and Jewel.  We love the itineraries they offer with this size ship for both the caribbean and europe.

I do like cococay but don't want to go there every time I cruise the caribbean. 

 

I do see Empress, Majesty and Grandeur going out the door but they may also want to wait till November to see if we will be able to sail to cuba in the near future.   I have never been on vision or rhapsody (actually booked for rhapsody on a b2b this winter (maybe!).   

 

[OACAggie]

4 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Our TA drives to Miami from Ontario.😉😱

 

My great TA does same drive!😉

 

And we did it this past March for Oasis’ last cruise. Personally, the drive becomes part of the vacation. Much more relaxed drive home than flying would have been mid-March. 

[John&LaLa]

12 minutes ago, OACAggie said:

My great TA does same drive!😉

 

And we did it this past March for Oasis’ last cruise. Personally, the drive becomes part of the vacation. Much more relaxed drive home than flying would have been mid-March. 

 

 

No doubt. We drove home from Miami, so happy to be able to head home.

Friends on Allure had to fly back to Canada, even though they were Snowbirds and their car was at their Ft Lauderdale condo.

I guess it's still there

[Ourusualbeach]

1 hour ago, OACAggie said:

Personally, the drive becomes part of the vacation.

You are so right.  We started driving when the kids were 2 and happy just to be on a beach with a pail and shovel, long before we were cruising.  Once it’s just DW and I I’m sure we will start to fly but with the kids we will continue to drive.  

[Ourusualbeach]

6 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Our TA drives to Miami from Ontario.😉😱

 

I prefer to fly when it's more than 8 hours, but a family of four can be pricey

Especially at Christmas and March break.

[Germancruiser]

I will certainly not set foot on any Oasis Class ship- that is for sure. The may be perfect for families and those who need constant entertaintment. The experiences- " SEA" - " SHIP"- are no longer important on those ships. Most bars and such are indoors- with no view at all- but each his own.

Just kidding of course- but- maybe they should send those biggies to the scrapeyards instead of their ships beautyfull! ( Vision Class, Radiance Class and maybe also Voyager Class)  LOL!

[SherriZ366]

HAL sold two of their ships to Fred Olson.  

[Hoopster95]

14 hours ago, Airbalancer said:

Have to agree with Hoopster 95 , and I can see RCL leaving Europe and just leave Celebrity to take up the slack 

 

But there's a problem not many on this forum have re-mentioned since the initial news... RCG's $2.2 billion dollar loan has collateral attached to it if they default. Guess what Morgan Stanley gets if RCG defaults? All assets (Celebrity, Azamara, etc), including ships, that are not RCI... an approx total of $40 billion if memory serves me. Let's talk Q2 2021 if no one else has sailed out of the US yet and see what the word on the street is. You might not be choosing Celebrity in the Med next year... it'll be "Morgan Stanley Cruise Lines"

 

14 hours ago, cgolf1 said:

 

Good luck getting families going on Celebrity. We are mid 40s and on our first Celebrity cruise on the Edge, their ship targeting a younger customer base, I would guess 80 to 90% of the people onboard were older than us, and not just by a couple of years. 

 

Reminds me of the first few months of Quantum sailings... a very large majority sailed by higher and older C&A members. On my sailing there may have been 2-3 roller skaters in the SeaPlex. Nightclub was empty for the most part. Pools empty & predominantly kid free. Yet Quantum Class is obviously very family and kid friendly.

 

3 hours ago, Sunshine3601 said:

IMO , if this happened I would sail with other cruise lines that offer the mid size ship experience.   It would be very difficult to do that but if that is what we need to do to avoid being a ship with over 6000 people.   

 

Yes, it was difficult for me to consider as well, but the itinerary was the overwhelming winner. And now I am so very glad I tried a new cruise line.... found another favorite cruise line that can provide me so much different than what RCI provides, and vice versa. You should give something new a try. 😀

[Hoopster95]

19 minutes ago, Germancruiser said:

I will certainly not set foot on any Oasis Class ship- that is for sure. The may be perfect for families and those who need constant entertaintment. The experiences- " SEA" - " SHIP"- are no longer important on those ships. Most bars and such are indoors- with no view at all- but each his own.

 

If you haven't yet, you should try Quantum Class... they got a lot of things right on her design. More views from public spaces hands down compared to Radiance Class, and yet they also achieve an inner focus (for revenue, entertainment, etc )

[ladylyn915]

22 hours ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

No more Vision or Radiance ships whatsoever in the new fleet.

It's all about how many ships, (and people $$$$$) can fit into CocoCay and Labadee on the same day.

Oh , please say it isn't so!!  We just booked The Brilliance for next Summer - our first cruise since the Anthem in  2018!

Last year was a bust - health issues -  Carnival Panorama canceled this year, of course and I was too afraid to book anything sooner than next summer!  

I'm really looking forward to a small ship experience on RCCL.  So, for me, I really hope Radiance Ships hang around for awhile!  

Lyn

[Germancruiser]

Thanks Hoopster- I had my eyes already on one of the Quantum Class ships- the look bit more like the ships the used to built- quite right!

[John&LaLa]

1 hour ago, Germancruiser said:

I will certainly not set foot on any Oasis Class ship- that is for sure. The may be perfect for families and those who need constant entertaintment. The experiences- " SEA" - " SHIP"- are no longer important on those ships. Most bars and such are indoors- with no view at all- but each his own.

Just kidding of course- but- maybe they should send those biggies to the scrapeyards instead of their ships beautyfull! ( Vision Class, Radiance Class and maybe also Voyager Class)  LOL!

 

They work very well for us. 

 

Your comments remind me of the original remarks made when Oasis debuted.😉

[zekekelso]

2 hours ago, Germancruiser said:

 

I will certainly not set foot on any Oasis Class ship- that is for sure.

 

I kinda agree with you. I want to be on something that feels like a boat, not a barge. But if somebody said, hey let’s go cruising on the Oasis, I’d set foot on her. A cruise on a barge is still better than no cruise. 

[zekekelso]

2 hours ago, Hoopster95 said:

Guess what Morgan Stanley gets if RCG defaults? All assets (Celebrity, Azamara, etc), including ships, that are not RCI... an approx total of $40 billion if memory serves me. Let's talk Q2 2021 if no one else has sailed out of the US yet and see what the word on the street is. You might not be choosing Celebrity in the Med next year... it'll be "Morgan Stanley Cruise Lines"

One of the main assets is the name itself. Even if owned by Morgan Stanley, I suspect they’ll sail under the Celebrity name and “X.” Be interesting to know what value they placed on the X trademark alone. 

Edited July 16, 2020 by zekekelso

[Ashland]

3 hours ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

If you haven't yet, you should try Quantum Class... they got a lot of things right on her design. More views from public spaces hands down compared to Radiance Class, and yet they also achieve an inner focus (for revenue, entertainment, etc )

Hmmm..Interesting...however, my cruise on Quantum left me (JMHO) a bit disappointed with the ship itself ...The Royal Promenade on this particular class is a bad design with how it seems to dead end in front of Sorrentos. The DL location and lack of windows easily seen out of....not so good. However, loved the location and views from the CL even if it was a long walk aft.

[cgolf1]

9 hours ago, ladylyn915 said:

Oh , please say it isn't so!!  We just booked The Brilliance for next Summer - our first cruise since the Anthem in  2018!

Last year was a bust - health issues -  Carnival Panorama canceled this year, of course and I was too afraid to book anything sooner than next summer!  

I'm really looking forward to a small ship experience on RCCL.  So, for me, I really hope Radiance Ships hang around for awhile!  

Lyn

 

While we have only sailed Brilliance once, it is in a 3 way tie for our favorite ship, 3 since there is no such thing as a perfect ship, but Brilliance came very close for us. We instantly felt at home on the ship, loved the outdoor seating for the buffet, it is just a great ship. The only problem we had was they had an amazing rock cover band, Kronos (spelling), that packed the atrium to the point there wasn't a seat to be had multiple floors up. We skipped stage shows to listen to them, they were amazing. They just needed a bigger venue for them.

 

I understand the bigger ship thing, but they are just not for us.

[livingonthebeach]

Meanwhile, in case anyone is interesting, HAL is losing 29% of its fleet:

https://thepointsguy.com/news/holland-america-cruise-ships-leave-fleet/

[John&LaLa]

24 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

Meanwhile, in case anyone is interesting, HAL is losing 29% of its fleet:

https://thepointsguy.com/news/holland-america-cruise-ships-leave-fleet/

 

Maybe in total shios, but not in berths. 😉

These 4 ships hold less people than Oasis😱

[TeeRick]

On 7/15/2020 at 12:22 AM, Hoopster95 said:

 

I had an idea several years ago, posted it a few times on threads like this...

RC's theme is family cruising on inner-focused mega ships, spend money on board and not on shore, etc. Who cares about the ports... the ship is the main draw. The itinerary is consideration #22 on the list after dining options, lounges, types of suites, entertainment, etc etc etc etc. Any ship class under Voyager Class does not fit at all with what RC has been selling to the public for years. It's all about Oasis Class, Q Class and Icon going forward.... with Navigator/Mariner doing the cheapo 3/4 day "booze-cruises" that Majesty/Monarch did for years. Now Voyager Class take over as the less modern ships and much older sisters to the bigger girls in the fleet. 

 

How's this for a bold statement:

Empress, Majesty, Vision, Rhapsody, Grandeur & Enchantment either sold or scrapped (gone and no longer part of RCG)

All Radiance Class ships transferred/sold to a subsidiary, ie. like a restructured Pullmantur. (still part of RCG)

 

No more Vision or Radiance ships whatsoever in the new fleet.

It's all about how many ships, (and people $$$$$) can fit into CocoCay and Labadee on the same day.

Let's think about the RCG corporate strategy big picture a bit.  Lots of new ships now planned and assume being built (with delays) for both Royal and Celebrity. A lot of previously announced renovations are on hold.  But post-COVID for a few years at least, where will all the passengers come from? So scrap some ships yes.  Sell some ships yes. But also maybe a redistribution of ships and re-branding to spare cash and cancel some new builds?  I could perhaps see some Radiance or Voyager Class ships undergoing renovations going to Celebrity in lieu of more expensive building of Edge Class after the APEX.  Or the other way?  I sailed have Edge and Anthem and it was pretty clear that they have a lot of strong similarities.

[livingonthebeach]

14 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Maybe in total shios, but not in berths. 😉

These 4 ships hold less people than Oasis😱

 

Yes, those are way smaller ships than the Oasis class ships.  The ship built in 2000 is worrisome though -- thought that one would make the cut. 

[John&LaLa]

2 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Yes, those are way smaller ships than the Oasis class ships.  The ship built in 2000 is worrisome though -- thought that one would make the cut. 

 

Just curious

 Were any of those new builds for Holland, or were they all aquisitions after the last downturn in 2008