Cancelled our August 2021 cruise

[GA Dave]

26 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

Agree "money talks" , however does that make it right? It should be a level playing field , but " money " can buy anything. Deep pockets ( which the cruiselines seem to have) I'm sure will prevail.

No, I do not believe it makes it right.  Just like I do not think it makes it right that 60-somethings with multiple comorbidities should be getting their vaccinations after people one-third their age that bag groceries for a living and have a better chance of getting hit by lightning eleven times than dying of Covid.

[graphicguy]

17 hours ago, beerman2 said:

Guess my question would be where/how will the cruiselines get the doses needed. They are foreign flagged so they should get doses before all the American public is vaccinated?

 

Many question the cruiselines have to resolve.

The cruise ships are flagged in different countries.  But, their HQ is in Miami, FL.  I would think the HQ would pay for/secure vaccines through whichever avenue is quickest.  Right now, the U.S. is seemingly lagging behind Europe/Asia.  So, if NCL could secure the vaccines from a different part of the world quicker, I'm sure they would.

[CruizinKittie40]

On 12/17/2020 at 9:54 AM, Da-Painter said:

We booked a Baltic cruise in 2019 for August 2021, and decided today, rather then plan on making airfare and hotel plans, with the pandemic world wide, we do not see the cruise occurring, and if it did, our ability to tour the various cities safely looks questionable.

We booked with one of the big box stores, I called and got through immediately. The representative mentioned that my cancellation was understandable and quite common. They mentioned that folks were booking for fall 2021, nothing sooner, nor not much longer out at this time.

We had been looking forward to this cruise for years, to be done after my retirement. Wish we could do the cruise, but will see what the future has in store for all of us.

Stay safe and healthy, best wishes for the Holiday Season.

 

that's funny because I came here because i'm ready to book a cruise for about that time next year.  with the vaccine and the super low prices, I feel it's a good gamble.  Not knocking your decision, but not sure why you didn't wait at least a few more months. 

[BirdTravels]

On 12/22/2020 at 10:21 AM, graphicguy said:

The cruise ships are flagged in different countries.  But, their HQ is in Miami, FL.  I would think the HQ would pay for/secure vaccines through whichever avenue is quickest.  Right now, the U.S. is seemingly lagging behind Europe/Asia.  So, if NCL could secure the vaccines from a different part of the world quicker, I'm sure they would.

The US is not so much lagging as they placed orders with multiple vendors assuming all would be successful (and not putting all of their eggs in the Moderna basket). So far only two vendors have got across the finish line. AstraZenica and J&J are still in trials and that leaves the US hundreds of millions of doses short. The US did place additional orders for the two approved vaccines, but they are at the end of the line, with fulfillment next year some time. 

[Joanne G.]

I haven't  canceled my August 2021 cruise in Europe (booked before the pandemic), but I am concerned.  I will make my decision based on conditions in May, when I have to make final payment.   I don't again want to deal with the stress of wondering if a fully paid cruise will be canceled or if conditions in Europe or onboard will make the experience less enjoyable, plus dealing with cancelations of flights, hotels, ground transportation, and private excursions.  I went through that this year, and it wasn't pleasant.    If I have doubts in May, I will cancel and get my refundable deposit back.   If I do that, and it turns out I am vaccinated and European ports are welcoming tourists by August, I will book something last minute, maybe a cruise, maybe a land vacation.  

[AstoriaPreppy]

On 12/21/2020 at 7:05 PM, MsTabbyKats said:

They should absolutely not get doses while any Americans are still waiting to be vaccinated.

Maybe the cruiselines will have to re-staff...with people vaccinated in their home country.

 

On 12/21/2020 at 5:24 PM, beerman2 said:

Guess my question would be where/how will the cruiselines get the doses needed. They are foreign flagged so they should get doses before all the American public is vaccinated?

In the US, the general social expectation is that you receive healthcare coverage from your place of employment (future or past), for both US citizens and non-citizens. It's completely reasonable that major corporations would secure and provide mass COVID vaccination efforts to their employees, much like they do each year with the "get a flu shot" days in most workplaces. 

Separately, re vaccination: It's important to remember that other than allocating available vaccines to each state (based on population), there is little to no actual federal government planning in the United States for administering the vaccine to Americans. That's one of the reasons the US has secured ~20 million vaccines, but as of today only ~2 million people have received a first dose vaccination. 

In some respects, having a highly limited availability of vaccine doses has been beneficial. Beyond the early vaccine rollouts to front line medical personnel, the closest thing we've got to a plan is more a loosey-goosey sort of "we'll just get vaccines to Walmart and Walgreens because they give people flu shots and let them figure it out," which everyone is pretty clear needs some work. 

I'd expect that towards the end of January (when *hopefully* more vaccines have proven successful and approved), we're going to see much more aggressive implementation of new mass vaccination plans from the federal government. 



 

[AstoriaPreppy]

(accidental double post) 

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by AstoriaPreppy
(accidental double post)

[MsTabbyKats]

10 minutes ago, AstoriaPreppy said:

 

In the US, the general social expectation is that you receive healthcare coverage from your place of employment (future or past), for both US citizens and non-citizens. It's completely reasonable that major corporations would secure and provide mass COVID vaccination efforts to their employees, much like they do each year with the "get a flu shot" days in most workplaces. 

Separately, re vaccination: It's important to remember that other than allocating available vaccines to each state (based on population), there is little to no actual federal government planning in the United States for administering the vaccine to Americans. That's one of the reasons the US has secured ~20 million vaccines, but as of today only ~2 million people have received a first dose vaccination. 

In some respects, having a highly limited availability of vaccine doses has been beneficial. Beyond the early vaccine rollouts to front line medical personnel, the closest thing we've got to a plan is more a loosey-goosey sort of "we'll just get vaccines to Walmart and Walgreens because they give people flu shots and let them figure it out," which everyone is pretty clear needs some work. 

I'd expect that towards the end of January (when *hopefully* more vaccines have proven successful and approved), we're going to see much more aggressive implementation of new mass vaccination plans from the federal government. 



 

But they'd still have to get on the line, and for the most part, since they are young and healthy, their place will be at the back of the line....even if they have health coverage.

[AstoriaPreppy]

11 minutes ago, MsTabbyKats said:

But they'd still have to get on the line, and for the most part, since they are young and healthy, their place will be at the back of the line....even if they have health coverage.

Hypothetically, yes... but.

My point being that there isn't really a "line" in the US. We've all been told first it's going to frontline medical, then nursing homes, then essential workers, then the elderly and preexisting conditions, etc etc etc. Right now, there's no actual implementation of that line, other than the vaccines being too limited for wide distribution. 

We've seen politicians getting vaccinated en mass, and there've been isolated incidents (including near me in NYC) where very low risk people with very good connections were able to get the vaccine immediately (the state shut down that urgent care facility and took back their vaccines). There's not much rhyme or reason, despite the clear outlines of who should be getting the vaccine. 

A great example of the chaos is anecdotal. One of my friends is an ER doctor in Western New York State. When his hospital got their first batch of vaccines, the (public) hospital essentially did a lottery to figure out who would get vaccinated. That is, instead of vaccinating the ER staff working the covid wards (drs, nurses, techs), they just put everyone into a hat and randomly picked names. So a few ER personnel got the vaccine, and then mostly random people from medical billing and the foodservice staff. And this is in a well-respected major hospital. 

At this point, I think you're completely right about the "line" from moral and ethical grounds. It's clear who should get the vaccine first, however no one is really in charge of managing that line or distribution. Assuming that corporation won't flex their muscle to subvert a COVID vaccination line is probably wishful thinking.


 

[rjm11]

And to add to the confusion, the "line" in the US isn't dictated at the federal level- rather it's at the state level. So although the CDC makes recommendations about who should get it first, etc, each state can do it however they want to. Here in Ohio, our governor has stated that after nursing home residents and some medical staff, teachers will get the next doses so that schools can open up. That is specific to Ohio.

[MsTabbyKats]

@AstoriaPreppy

 

Did you hear Gov Cuomo today?  He's putting an abrupt stop to the "misuse".

 

At first I was annoyed when AOC got her vaccination, but then realized that she would set an example to her community....so in the long run, it would benefit us all.

[AstoriaPreppy]

59 minutes ago, MsTabbyKats said:

 

Did you hear Gov Cuomo today?  He's putting an abrupt stop to the "misuse".

 

At first I was annoyed when AOC got her vaccination, but then realized that she would set an example to her community....so in the long run, it would benefit us all.

 

I didn't see today's briefing from the Gov., but thinking I kind of miss the daily briefings from early on in the pandemic... it seems like a lifetime ago, but it was only March/April. 

As for AOC, I'm actually in her district, and just ran into her out and a week or two ago while she was touring small businesses and meeting with owners in the neighborhood. Thankfully, 99.9% of people and businesses I see here wear masks and social distance responsibly, so we're not really the demographic that needs encouraging to get vaccinated... we'll be on line down the block at the Duane Reade as soon as it's available!

[MsTabbyKats]

2 minutes ago, AstoriaPreppy said:

 

I didn't see today's briefing from the Gov., but thinking I kind of miss the daily briefings from early on in the pandemic... it seems like a lifetime ago, but it was only March/April. 

As for AOC, I'm actually in her district, and just ran into her out and a week or two ago while she was touring small businesses and meeting with owners in the neighborhood. Thankfully, 99.9% of people and businesses I see here wear masks and social distance responsibly, so we're not really the demographic that needs encouraging to get vaccinated... we'll be on line down the block at the Duane Reade as soon as it's available!

Hmmm....here are the stats by zip code.  For the most part, AOC's territory doesn't look like 99.9% compliance to me.  

https://projects.thecity.nyc/2020_03_covid-19-tracker/

[Travelling2Some]

7 hours ago, CruizinKittie40 said:

that's funny because I came here because i'm ready to book a cruise for about that time next year.  with the vaccine and the super low prices, I feel it's a good gamble.  Not knocking your decision, but not sure why you didn't wait at least a few more months. 

I see your point (and the OP can speak for himself, obviously) but I think much depends on individual habits.  Often a Baltic cruise involves extensive land arrangements for people who have the time (retired, like us - yay!).  We only visit the same locations once (hey, it's a big world and we're not so young!)  I plan our journeys meticulously and we stay in each place as long as it takes to see everything that interests us.  I enjoy this planning.  It's actually a bit of a hobby BUT I don't want to waste my efforts either.  I've had to cancel 3 trips now due to COVID and I can tell you that cancelling/refunding every hotel, tour and flight was a freakin' part time job, lol.  I agree that the odds are decent that we might be able to travel internationally this summer or fall.  However, I would have to start making those reservations and laying out money NOW in order to get exactly the arrangements I want (Yup, I'm picky cause I'm never going back) and I am reluctant to commit the effort to a trip that may not happen.  So, long story short, if it was JUST the cruise I'd take a chance on things working out by then, but there are too many other "moving parts".

[IrieBajan54]

2 hours ago, MsTabbyKats said:

@AstoriaPreppy

 

Did you hear Gov Cuomo today?  He's putting an abrupt stop to the "misuse".

 

At first I was annoyed when AOC got her vaccination, but then realized that she would set an example to her community....so in the long run, it would benefit us all.

.

Like AOC, I think that some sports stars (i.e. NBA) should get vaccinated on TV to encourage reluctant people in certain demographics that have suffered disproportionately from COVID-19. I know of several people who are so distrustful of the government and vaccine, they will not get it.

 

The quicker more people are vaccinated, the sooner ports of call

will reopen.

[AstoriaPreppy]

8 hours ago, MsTabbyKats said:

Hmmm....here are the stats by zip code.  For the most part, AOC's territory doesn't look like 99.9% compliance to me.  

https://projects.thecity.nyc/2020_03_covid-19-tracker/

 

I used to have a legendary teacher who always reminded us the most important lesson we would ever take from his class was that correlation does not imply causation. 

In this case, covid rates are rising across the NY area. That's while compliance to social distancing and mask wearing in public and at businesses (as I was noting) is still be exceedingly high.

 

Covid transmission rates, especially in the tristate area, are rising because of what people do when not in public. It doesn't matter if you wear a mask to the Key Food, if you just take that food to a holiday party. 

[MsTabbyKats]

8 hours ago, AstoriaPreppy said:

 

I used to have a legendary teacher who always reminded us the most important lesson we would ever take from his class was that correlation does not imply causation. 

In this case, covid rates are rising across the NY area. That's while compliance to social distancing and mask wearing in public and at businesses (as I was noting) is still be exceedingly high.

 

Covid transmission rates, especially in the tristate area, are rising because of what people do when not in public. It doesn't matter if you wear a mask to the Key Food, if you just take that food to a holiday party. 

Oh, I agree.  I think I may be the only one of my friends NOT having fun to some degree. 

 

I'm 71....and looking back, if this happened when I was 21....there was no zoom, no internet, not even telephone answering machines.  At that time, making a long distance call was a big thing, and you did it after 11pm, when the rates went down. 

 

There is no excuse for people who "must get together" nowadays.  It's inconsiderate, selfish and stupid.  And the sad thing is, many really think that they are being careful just because "the put the mask on" in Key Food.

[HowardK]

On 12/28/2020 at 11:43 AM, rjm11 said:

And to add to the confusion, the "line" in the US isn't dictated at the federal level- rather it's at the state level. So although the CDC makes recommendations about who should get it first, etc, each state can do it however they want to. Here in Ohio, our governor has stated that after nursing home residents and some medical staff, teachers will get the next doses so that schools can open up. That is specific to Ohio.

And this is partly what got us into trouble in the first place- no standardization. I looked for NJ on NBC and it says children before adults but I thought children hadn't been approved. Its hard to believe any timeline I read these days. 

[zdcatc12]

4 hours ago, HowardK said:

I looked for NJ on NBC and it says children before adults but I thought children hadn't been approved. Its hard to believe any timeline I read these days. 

Pfizer is approved for 16+, however, Moderna is 18+. So 16 and 17 year old "children" could receive the Pfizer vaccine.

[Da-Painter]

On 12/28/2020 at 12:36 PM, Travelling2Some said:

I see your point (and the OP can speak for himself, obviously) but I think much depends on individual habits.  Often a Baltic cruise involves extensive land arrangements for people who have the time (retired, like us - yay!).  We only visit the same locations once (hey, it's a big world and we're not so young!)  I plan our journeys meticulously and we stay in each place as long as it takes to see everything that interests us.  I enjoy this planning.  It's actually a bit of a hobby BUT I don't want to waste my efforts either.  I've had to cancel 3 trips now due to COVID and I can tell you that cancelling/refunding every hotel, tour and flight was a freakin' part time job, lol.  I agree that the odds are decent that we might be able to travel internationally this summer or fall.  However, I would have to start making those reservations and laying out money NOW in order to get exactly the arrangements I want (Yup, I'm picky cause I'm never going back) and I am reluctant to commit the effort to a trip that may not happen.  So, long story short, if it was JUST the cruise I'd take a chance on things working out by then, but there are too many other "moving parts".

If we were going on the cruise we would be booking hotels in Copenhagen for a week before the cruise, to explore, there are airplane flights to book, pet sitters, excursions in each port that we have time on our own to explore. We would be spending 2 days in St Petersburg, and how secure are the tour excursion folks going to be toward coronavirus safety??? we have to put trust into this issue, and Russia does not have a reputation that we feel confident about. I concur with what Traveling2Some has to say.

 

We had a trip planned to the Galapagos Islands last April, 21 days in Peru, Ecuador, trains, multiple hotels, Machu Picchu tickets, etc., which all had to be cancelled. I just recently received my refund for some of these items. It was a lot of work to plan, and a lot of work to cancel everything. Guayaquil Ecuador, where we were planning to stay and visit, had one of the worst death tolls in Ecuador. 

 

I do not see our safety is secured enough at this time keeping from getting the coronavirus a 2nd time, yes, my wife and I each got it last March, and do not want to go through that again. 

 

We are going to Hawaii in 10 days, we also went back in October, but with the requirement of having a negative coronavirus test to go, at least I feel the majority of folks on the flight will be safe to be with, and find folks in Hawaii are smart enough to wear a mask, to also stay safe. 

 

We plan our vacations years out, and I feel its safer to go to Hawaii then Georgia, where masks are not required to be worn. 

 

For us, we made a smart, thoughtful decision. Hopefully we can travel internationally safely in the future, not the near future, until then, we are going to be sitting on the sidelines for some time. 

Stay safe & healthy folks, Happy New Year.