Any Concerns with Booking 2022?

[cleobella]

We are long standing ocean cruisers, but I'm considering trying something new and booking a 2021 or 2022 Christmas Markets Cruise or Spring Cruise on the Rhine. A couple of questions: 1) should I be concerned about any River lines being in danger of going under after this awful pandemic situation? The deposits are quite significant and I have some concern about losing my deposit if a river line folds 2) for a first time river trip would a Dec or spring Rhine Itinerary be preferable? I love the idea of seeing the Christmas Markets but wouldn't want our adventures impeded by snow storms or blizzards!

Thanks !

[gnome12]

28 minutes ago, cleobella said:

We are long standing ocean cruisers, but I'm considering trying something new and booking a 2021 or 2022 Christmas Markets Cruise or Spring Cruise on the Rhine. A couple of questions: 1) should I be concerned about any River lines being in danger of going under after this awful pandemic situation? The deposits are quite significant and I have some concern about losing my deposit if a river line folds 2) for a first time river trip would a Dec or spring Rhine Itinerary be preferable? I love the idea of seeing the Christmas Markets but wouldn't want our adventures impeded by snow storms or blizzards!

Thanks !

What lines are you considering? When I sailed with Avalon the deposit was only $250 Canadian (per person, but there is only me). The same is true of Ama Waterways. In either case the balance wouldn't be due until 90 days before. Uniworld wants full payment for early booking discounts so I don't think I would go with that. (I don't remember what their regular deposit was; I booked one cruise close to departure and the other I was willing to pay up front.)

 

If you are worried about insolvencies I think that if you are willing to lose a small deposit (compared to the cost of the trip) you would be safer booking 2022, under my assumption (perhaps mistaken) that if they can make it through to 2022 they will probably survive.

[notamermaid]

I agree with gnome12 that the situation as regards finances and the companies will be clear by the time your full payment is due. The caveat is that Viking stands out as being the company that asks for full payment early, six to 12 months have been regularly reported here. Having said that, Viking is not that likely to go under quickly I should think. Look closely at what the individual companies ask for in the terms and conditions. Use a reputable credit card company for payment. You may prefer also to use a travel agent that deals for you with any issues that may come up.

 

1 hour ago, cleobella said:

2) for a first time river trip would a Dec or spring Rhine Itinerary be preferable? I love the idea of seeing the Christmas Markets but wouldn't want our adventures impeded by snow storms or blizzards!

 

It is all yours to decide what your preference may be. Both seasons are great. We do not normally have huge storms or snow blizzards (a few in January when there are no river cruises do happen but not necessarily every winter) in the Rhine valley and the stormy mountains are too far away for that. Unless you take a pre-cruise tour up into the Swiss mountains from Basel. Usual temperature range in the valley in winter is minus ten Celsius at night to plus ten Celsius during warm days. Winter 2020/21 so far has had fewer than ten days of snow of note.

 

Have fun planning.

 

notamermaid

 

[Second seating]

We have gone on 4 Christmas market trips, one lock broken, one low water issue but no snow storms! We did come home to a snow storm spent the night in Boston!  Spring is nice but I remember one couple from the south that had no idea the temps tulips bloom, they thought they were freezing!

 

Second seating

[Host Jazzbeau]

14 minutes ago, Second seating said:

We have gone on 4 Christmas market trips, one lock broken, one low water issue but no snow storms! We did come home to a snow storm spent the night in Boston!  Spring is nice but I remember one couple from the south that had no idea the temps tulips bloom, they thought they were freezing!

 

That's why I always check accuweather's historical information before settling on a date.  Luckily, @cleobella lives even further north than you so a Tulip Time cruise might feel balmy!

[gnome12]

8 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

That's why I always check accuweather's historical information before settling on a date.  Luckily, @cleobella lives even further north than you so a Tulip Time cruise might feel balmy!

I did a fairly late tulip time cruise in 2010, the last 2 weeks of April. I started wearing a heavy fleece with a scarf, earmuffs, and gloves, and at the end, the day we went to Keukenhof, I started with a light jacket but in the afternoon I was comfortable in shirtsleeves. And, like the OP, I too am from Toronto.

[Roz]

@cleobella, I don't know if you've ever been to Europe in the winter, but be aware it starts to get dark at 3 pm.

[notamermaid]

12 minutes ago, Roz said:

@cleobella, I don't know if you've ever been to Europe in the winter, but be aware it starts to get dark at 3 pm.

timeanddate.com website is good for checking that. It can be very grey and a bit foggy in late Autumn and Winter. Agree that with sun low it gets dark early, 3pm is more for the Northern parts close to Denmark and the Frisian Islands perhaps, I would say. The Rhine valley is closer to 4pm - Amsterdam not being on the Rhine and a bit further North.

 

notamermaid

 

[Coral]

I did a Christmas Markets trip at the end of November. We did have some rain, not enough to interfere with visiting the Markets and then some flurries. End of November is known for rain along the Danube. I picked the time period to go because it was over Thanksgiving and easier for me to be away from work. Only one day did I wear my winter jacket. Most of the time I wore my rain jacket which is one of those rubbery ones that is warmer than most rain jackets.

[notamermaid]

I have had a quick look, Amsterdam is not as much difference to the Rhine valley as I thought, only around eight minutes, I expected 15 minutes. Really nice this timeanddate.

 

I like AccuWeather, too. Which Jazzbeau mentioned previously.

 

Coral, Thanksgiving is a holiday that Americans often use for the beginning of a Christmas market trip. I mention this as in some years the dates do not quite work out and not all Christmas markets are open yet. For the OP: check the date of Totensonntag, Sunday of the Dead, it determines the start of many markets (the Monday after) but others open earlier. They are likely to be closed for that Sunday daytime if the area you are in at that time observes the contemplative character of that church calendar day.

 

notamermaid

 

[Coral]

27 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

Coral, Thanksgiving is a holiday that Americans often use for the beginning of a Christmas market trip. I mention this as in some years the dates do not quite work out and not all Christmas markets are open yet. For the OP: check the date of Totensonntag, Sunday of the Dead, it determines the start of many markets (the Monday after) but others open earlier. They are likely to be closed for that Sunday daytime if the area you are in at that time observes the contemplative character of that church calendar day.

 

notamermaid

 

You are right to point that out. We hit the Austrian markets and those in Bratislava but not the German markets. We were always one day early or "they are starting tonight" and we left at 5 pm that day. I think we did get to Passau during the Christmas Markets but I chose to go out of town those 2 days.

 

Honestly - I booked this very last minute and went more for the itinerary (several overnights) and because it was over Thanksgiving than the Christmas Markets. The fact that we also hit Christmas Markets was just a bonus.

 

One can often (normally) google Vienna and Christmas Markets and look at the dates (or insert whatever cities you are visiting).

[cleobella]

Thanks for all the great info everyone. I would love to go to the Christmas markets but now I'm feeling that we may have a better overall trip if I book late April or early May.  It seems like it will be light jacket weather and the water levels should not be an issue.  I've looked at Viking, AMA and Avalon.  They seem like popular companies that are quite solvent.  Viking seems to be the best bet as they are so popular but I hesitate because they expect you to pay the full amount so far in advance. Although that probably means they have lots of money to keep afloat?  AMA is most expensive but they have good terms on payments.  I am wondering about Avalon?  Can anyone tell me if this is a good quality line?  Their specials are quite good right now and they defer payment until 90 days out which helps with the COVID situation.  Would they be as high end as AMA, or more in line with Viking?

[Daisi]

@cleobella, if you are looking at the Amsterdam to Basel on the Rhine, you can look for weather that will be similar to what you get at home, or possibly a bit warmer.  i'm in Eastern Ont, and when we did our Rhine cruise with Avalon (chosen because there were less passengers than Viking, and payment policy isn't full up front, but I know people who have sailed on Viking and will look at no other line), we found it about 5C warmer than what they were showing at home.  We expected temps from 15-20, ended up with average of 20-25C.  Not complaining, only found one day to hot to properly tour, but as we were wandering around Keukenhof that day, it wasn't to bad.  

 

We really enjoyed Avalon, their slogan was something to the effect that they wanted to see smiles on the passengers faces rather than white gloves on their staff.  It was nice and comfortable, you didn't have to worry about being overly fussed or fancy.  The Captain said we were to feel like part of their family, and we found that there was a lot of family (brothers/sisters etc.) working in the crew.  We liked it so much that we were planning our next cruise on the flight home.  Food was good, we aren't "foodies" but was like you would get in a good quality restaurant, and service was impeccable.  One night my husband said my desert looked good, next thing we knew, he had one to eat along with the one he ordered!

 

Since Avalon is part of Globus, they already have local tour guides, and we had a couple of ours giving extra "tours" after the main tour was done.  You usually get an hour or so to wander around, but they provided tours of different areas if you wished to join in.  We did both the morning and afternoon tours, so were pretty busy.

 

Avalon also has a "Covid guarantee" right now...our cruise is supposed to take place this May, but if we wish to change it, we only have to let them know and we can flip it to one with any brand under the Globus umbrella to later in the year or next year.  All we have invested with them since last Feb. is our deposit, so we aren't missing out on a big chunk of cash.  We will probably be flipping our cruise to May 2022, just to be more comfortable travelling.  

 

I can't compare other lines, as we haven't sailed with them.  I know Viking had one of the best customer response time for the cancellations with Covid, didn't hear much from Avalon, but then there isn't to much out there about Avalon - it's like a hidden secret!  You may wish to search the boards (use the search section, upper right and type in the line and refund.  You will see posts discussing how things were handled.  You may also wish to skim through this thread, as it's about the only one with a lot of info about Avalon. 

 

 

[cleobella]

Hi Daisi,

Great info on Avalon, one of the lines I am considering.  I didn't know they were part of Globus, that may be a deciding factor for me here, Globus seems to be a solid company.

Will check out the offerings. 

Stay safe and healthy out there!

 

[sharkster77]

@cleobella we asked the board about Globus recently, as some of their land tours look interesting, and it sounds like they were a bit inflexible when dealing with credit vs refunds for cancelled Avalon river cruises.  You may want to go back a few threads to read what was said about Avalon/Globus.

[Daisi]

20 hours ago, sharkster77 said:

@cleobella we asked the board about Globus recently, as some of their land tours look interesting, and it sounds like they were a bit inflexible when dealing with credit vs refunds for cancelled Avalon river cruises.  You may want to go back a few threads to read what was said about Avalon/Globus.

@sharkster77, I was checking the Avalon site yesterday, they are keeping the same policy as they had from last year with a LoC for your deposit and a "bonus" if your tour is cancelled.  Right now, it's up to Mar 15.  My TA is keeping an eye out on it, and checking to see if it goes any further.  I also see any tours booked in 2022 will also have the same cancellation policy.  You may want to keep an eye on Globus, as I saw something the other day that they were going to start a panoramic train trip in the US, and Globus may be offering trips on that.  Not sure when it is to start.  Since we only have a deposit, I don't mind holding off for a year.

 

*** Fine print quote from the Avalon site if you do not wish to book for the next year****

 

"**Cancellation refund for affected departures March 1-15, 2021 follow our trip cancellation procedure, including refund of monies paid to the Globus family of brands equal to the amount paid on your original booking. Affected departures March 1-15, 2021 must be advised by January 27, 2021 in order to opt-out of the Peace of Mind Plan to receive a refund. Refunds may take up to 6 weeks for processing. "

Edited January 9, 2021 by Daisi

[sharkster77]

Thanks @Daisi Globus has a tour of the St. Lawrence/Gaspe that interests us.  There aren't many companies (at least that I can find) that offer tours of that area--my wife's late uncle was a teacher who led tours for a NYC company during summers, and the Gaspe trip was always his favorite.

 

The tour with Globus starts and ends in Montreal--since we fly out of Boston, that would be a fairly inexpensive 1.5 hr flight.  They have a 2-week tour of the atlantic provinces that starts and leaves from Boston--no flights for us at all!

 

We've had a tour of Gaspe cancelled by a tour company that is out of business (we lost no $$), and had a Canadian Rockies tour moved from last Sept. to this Sept. (not holding my breath on that one!)

 

Funny how we could get to Europe 3 times in the last 3 years, but cannot get to Canada for the life of us!  My maternal side emigrated to the US from Quebec and I cannot seem to get there!  I know, we aren't that far, but driving long distances doesn't appeal to me as much as it used to.

[cleobella]

Good luck on getting to Canada Sharkster.  I'm sure when things open up you will have some success.  Both the east and west coasts are beautiful, with different vibes.  It will be nice for you to see some of your ancestral roots!  That's why we want to see a bit of Germany.  With ocean cruises we can only get to a few coastal ports, we did Warnamunde for a day a few years ago. If I can find a good river cruise we will enjoy seeing more inland areas.