Viking Expeditions Thread

[TrumpyNor]

1 hour ago, sippican said:

 Where did you get your information regarding the next cruise being cancelled? 

As a TA booked to depart 12/6, there has been no such notification or information from Viking. Their official statement says the next sailing will go as planned.  (although that seems impossible).

I think you must have quoted my post by mistake, as I did NOT write anything about the next cruise being cancelled...?

[Heidi13]

48 minutes ago, Chari910 said:

Don't think they can repair these windows in 5 days. Even they decide to sail with those cabins empty,   the water will get inside from the rough waves. Too dangerous.

 

The Master cannot sail if the superstructure is not weather tight. It is unlikely they can make permanent repairs to the windows in 5-day, as who knows how many replacement windows are carried onboard.

 

Temporary repairs, with some challenges, can possibly be made in that time frame. However, before they can even contemplate cleaning up and starting repairs, they must wait the arrival of the AIBN staff, who must inspect and record the damage for the investigation.

 

Once the AIBN clear the vessel to make repairs they can seal the superstructure with steel plate. This will be easier if the local ship repair company can provide a barge to work from, some craneage and sufficient steel plate. However, even if Viking can't get outside assistance any reasonable Seaman and Engineer can "Jury Rig" a working platform over the side and some Handy Billys/Block & Tackles to manoeuvre the plate into place. Little tougher with current current HSE requirements, but should still be doable. The onboard Engineers will have a qualified welder.

 

All repairs must be completed to the satisfaction of the attending LR Surveyor, who if satisfied, will issue the Master a "Condition of Class".

 

If a barge and crane is available, cutting, prep, fitting, welding, testing and painting can easily be completed in under 5-days. 

[Heidi13]

36 minutes ago, Chari910 said:

Yes, Deck 2 on the Port side. Not just the damaged windows, some walls and ceilings also collapsed.

 

 

This is not surprising, as the cabins are manufactured off-site and installed as complete units onto the deck, and then manoeuvred into place. The cabin bulkheads and deckheads are not structural steel.

 

[Sunflower & The Scientist]

We aren't booked for this so no concerns for us, but if I was and I was booked in one of those rooms, I think it would be emotionally hard to kick back in the room and enjoy the cruise. I'm not superstitious so that's not the issue. I would just feel such empathy for those who went through such a horrible thing. 

[Catlover54]

So this ship had a malfunctioning Zodiak which led to the severe injury of a passenger, and lower windows that could not withstand a storm, which led to the death of another passenger and injury of others while hurrying back to get help for the first injured passenger.

 

I wonder what else is wrong with this new ship (especially since we know that Covid consequences have created labor shortages and time crunches for companies to deliver products).

 

Of course similar problems could occur on other lines, we just don't know about them, and in theory the odds of gettiing injured, much less killed, on an expedition remain miniscule.

 

What do we know about the captain?

[Jim Avery]

21 minutes ago, Catlover54 said:

So this ship had a malfunctioning Zodiak which led to the severe injury of a passenger, and lower windows that could not withstand a storm, which led to the death of another passenger and injury of others while hurrying back to get help for the first injured passenger.

 

I wonder what else is wrong with this new ship (especially since we know that Covid consequences have created labor shortages and time crunches for companies to deliver products).

 

Of course similar problems could occur on other lines, we just don't know about them, and in theory the odds of gettiing injured, much less killed, on an expedition remain miniscule.

 

What do we know about the captain?

The Captain is highly experienced and fully qualified and vetted by Viking.  Why do you ask?

[sippican]

37 minutes ago, Catlover54 said:

So this ship had a malfunctioning Zodiak which led to the severe injury of a passenger, and lower windows that could not withstand a storm, which led to the death of another passenger and injury of others while hurrying back to get help for the first injured passenger.

 

I wonder what else is wrong with this new ship (especially since we know that Covid consequences have created labor shortages and time crunches for companies to deliver products).

 

Of course similar problems could occur on other lines, we just don't know about them, and in theory the odds of gettiing injured, much less killed, on an expedition remain miniscule.

 

What do we know about the captain?

 

Reports state it was a rogue wave that caused the damage, injuries and fatality. If you do a search, you will find that many other ships have suffered severe damage if they encounter one.  Yes, they were in a storm. Her sister ship was built by the same company during covid and crossed the Drake multiple times last season.

 

Although Viking expeditions are a new endeavor for them, a very experienced company, Quark, suffered the loss of two passengers in a zodiac accident a few weeks ago in Antarctica. 

 

Looking for someone or something to blame seems to be a fruitless venture but ceratainly questions worth asking.

https://www.rfi.fr/en/international-news/20221201-rogue-wave-kills-person-on-antarctic-cruise?fbclid=IwAR081mJahe3tYOrRPksuWq6QLft381uRZXCVGn3dGM2x_UmZcnxqx3Xq03g

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by sippican

[Heidi13]

7 minutes ago, Catlover54 said:

So this ship had a malfunctioning Zodiak which led to the severe injury of a passenger, and lower windows that could not withstand a storm, which led to the death of another passenger and injury of others while hurrying back to get help for the first injured passenger.

 

I wonder what else is wrong with this new ship (especially since we know that Covid consequences have created labor shortages and time crunches for companies to deliver products).

 

Of course similar problems could occur on other lines, we just don't know about them, and in theory the odds of gettiing injured, much less killed, on an expedition remain miniscule.

 

What do we know about the captain?

 

Since you have made some damning allegations, I most certainly hope you were aboard the Viking Polaris and specifically the RHIB that experienced an incident, and more importantly are well versed in the actual facts.

 

Can you please enlighten us with the facts that the Zodiac malfunctioned and more specifically it was the fault of Viking, since you allege it was the Zodiac that severely injured a pax. By the nature of their operation, RHIB's carry a higher level of risk and the potential for injury. There is a very good reason the RHIB's are not used as tenders on other ships.

 

You stated, "Lower windows couldn't withstand a storm", which was actually classed as a "Rogue Wave" - big difference. This highly uninformed statement only shows your total lack of understanding of the marine environment. I have seen regular storms buckle 1" thick steel plate, so hardly surprising windows failed from impact of a Rogue Wave. To put it in perspective, over the years a number of ships have sunk from the impact of a rogue wave.

 

You stated, "Hurrying back to get help for the first injured passenger". Yes, it is reported the Master returned to Ushuaia for medical assistance, but at no time has the speed of the ship been mentioned. Please advise what speed the ship was making through the water, and more importantly, under those circumstances, what do you consider as a safe speed? BTW - if the vessel was proceeding too fast for the conditions, the ship would have experienced significant structural damage, probably requiring a drydock visit. The Rogue Wave also hit from the port side, so speed through the water probably had minimal, if any consequence.

 

Please rationalise how meeting a Rogue Wave in Drake Passage could have been impacted by COVID induced labour shortages. The vessel delivery was delayed, only being handed over to the owners and sailing when it was completed and signed off by the Classification Surveyors. This ship had a number of the early sailings cancelled.

 

The Captain is a fully qualified and certified Master Mariner. I fail to see any need to know more about the Master of a vessel that experienced a rare and catastrophic event, managing to navigate the vessel back to sheltered waters without further incident.

 

 

 

 

[sippican]

1 hour ago, TrumpyNor said:

I think you must have quoted my post by mistake, as I did NOT write anything about the next cruise being cancelled...?

Sorry about that. My apologies. Too late to edit.

 

[katlew]

There is another thread about this which includes a post from Facebook from someone who was in one of the rooms that was effected. 

 

[sippican]

Received official cancellation notice from Viking

[CharTrav]

On 11/30/2022 at 1:27 PM, amyr said:

I really popped in to say that we’re at the Hilton with thunderstorms rolling in, so have plenty of time to answer any questions, but then I got all gossipy.  I’ll post more if we hear anything.  There are a couple of Viking agents in the lobby that are going to be busy.  We also saw buses near Casa Rosada earlier from the Viking Jupiter, so lots going on here.  

 

PS - I think the damage was on Decks 2 and 3, port side.  

 

Was a pretty major incident. https://www.batimes.com.ar/news/argentina/one-person-died-on-an-antarctic-cruise-due-to-a-giant-wave-in-southern-argentina.phtml

 

[cruiseej]

I think the insinuations from @Catlover54 seem a bit unsubstantiated and heavy-handed, and the response from @Heidi13 was very heated, so perhaps everyone can just dial it back as we continue to learn about the multiple tragedies on this cruise. 

 

2 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

Can you please enlighten us with the facts that the Zodiac malfunctioned and more specifically it was the fault of Viking, since you allege it was the Zodiac that severely injured a pax.

 

The passengers onboard are the ones who reported that a bladder on the zodiac exploded, throwing one or two people overboard and injuring another. Whoever was in the water was pulled safely back on the zodiac, but the injured person suffered a severely broken leg which the ship's medical staff felt exceeded their capabilities and needed medical attention in a hospital. (It's not clear if any others were injured less severely.) Weather conditions apparently precluded sending a helicopter to medivac her back to Ushuaia, so the captain decided to take the ship to Ushuaia. I'd guess that is part of the protocol for cruise ships in Antarctica.

 

No one has stated the freak Zodiac accident was Viking's fault. An investigation will surely come up with a cause, but who knows whether that will ever be public information.

 

2 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

You stated, "Hurrying back to get help for the first injured passenger". Yes, it is reported the Master returned to Ushuaia for medical assistance, but at no time has the speed of the ship been mentioned. Please advise what speed the ship was making through the water...

 

Only the passengers and the crew know the exact speed of the ship. However, a passenger onboard did report "the weather is deteriorating. So, we are returning to Ushuaia (Argentina) at top speed." So yes, speed was mentioned. Whether the speed had anything to do with the impact of the rogue wave is unknown by any of us. We can guess that it seems unlikely, but again, an investigation will determine those facts some point in the future.

 

What we know for certain is that one person died in the wave accident, others made a harrowing escape after water poured into their cabins, and one woman was severely injured in the Zodiac accident. Did the captain make the right call trying to help the one injured woman, or did she make the wrong call attempting to cross the Drake in the rough weather conditions at the time? There's no reason for any of us to speculate or assign blame, because we just don't have the information needed to reach such a conclusion; eventually the inquiry (and potentially lawsuits) will reach a determination. 

 

[LindaS272]

1 hour ago, cruiseej said:

There's no reason for any of us to speculate or assign blame, because we just don't have the information needed to reach such a conclusion; eventually the inquiry (and potentially lawsuits) will reach a determination. 

And that was Andy’s point at @Catlover54 casting aspersions on Viking. If you want to police someone’s response on CC please just report it.

Edited December 2, 2022 by LindaS272

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, cruiseej said:

I think the insinuations from @Catlover54 seem a bit unsubstantiated and heavy-handed, and the response from @Heidi13 was very heated, so perhaps everyone can just dial it back as we continue to learn about the multiple tragedies on this cruise. 

 

 

The passengers onboard are the ones who reported that a bladder on the zodiac exploded, throwing one or two people overboard and injuring another. Whoever was in the water was pulled safely back on the zodiac, but the injured person suffered a severely broken leg which the ship's medical staff felt exceeded their capabilities and needed medical attention in a hospital. (It's not clear if any others were injured less severely.) Weather conditions apparently precluded sending a helicopter to medivac her back to Ushuaia, so the captain decided to take the ship to Ushuaia. I'd guess that is part of the protocol for cruise ships in Antarctica.

 

No one has stated the freak Zodiac accident was Viking's fault. An investigation will surely come up with a cause, but who knows whether that will ever be public information.

 

 

Only the passengers and the crew know the exact speed of the ship. However, a passenger onboard did report "the weather is deteriorating. So, we are returning to Ushuaia (Argentina) at top speed." So yes, speed was mentioned. Whether the speed had anything to do with the impact of the rogue wave is unknown by any of us. We can guess that it seems unlikely, but again, an investigation will determine those facts some point in the future.

 

What we know for certain is that one person died in the wave accident, others made a harrowing escape after water poured into their cabins, and one woman was severely injured in the Zodiac accident. Did the captain make the right call trying to help the one injured woman, or did she make the wrong call attempting to cross the Drake in the rough weather conditions at the time? There's no reason for any of us to speculate or assign blame, because we just don't have the information needed to reach such a conclusion; eventually the inquiry (and potentially lawsuits) will reach a determination. 

 

 

A few comments and explanations:

 

• I was one of the first to post that we should wait for the official report from the AIBN, as this was a reportable shipping incident. This is consistent with my posts regarding the Viking Sky.
• The inflatable collars on RHIB's are made from PVC or PU and are substantial. They are fairly low pressure and are fitted with pressure relief valves to prevent over-pressurisation. During the annual testing and certification, the relief valves are secured and the collars tested to 2x to 3x the working pressure. Therefore, the collars are capable of handling significantly more pressure. The collar also has 3 to 5 compartments, so if 1 fails the others remain inflated. Having used these boats and managed a service station, the only collar failures I know of were caused by punctures, either something sharp on board, or in the water. I'll suggest it is a bit of a stretch to consider a low pressure collar deflation as an explosion.
• When the doctor advises the Master that they are unable to manage a situation onboard, the Master considers all options and decides what action to take, in accordance with the owner's Safety Management System.
• The post I copied sure seemed to blame Viking's malfunctioning RHIB for the injury.
• Ship's speed - with the advent of AIS everyone can see the speed of any ship fitted with an AIS, provided the ship is within the range of a Ship Earth Station. By purchasing a premium plan from Marine Traffic, I could review the ship's track, seeing the weather and speed along the route, and also the live speed of ships not within range of a Ship Earth Station.
• Sadly many will question the Master's decision to return to Ushuaia, however it will have been made in accordance with the ship's Safety Management System. However, the Master has significant authority with respect to safety, as ISM Code Article 5.2, states the owner must include in the SMS that the Master has the overriding authority and responsibility to make decisions regarding safety and pollution prevention. Therefore, with respect to safety and pollution prevention, the Master can take any decision, even one contrary to the SMS, if in their professional opinion, it is the best course of action. The company is also required to assist the Master regardless of their decision. Having spent almost 30 years as a Master, we make decisions based on the information available at that time, and our experience. After an incident concludes, and more information is available, it is easy to 2nd guess the Master, who only had the initial information available.

[PeabodyMa]

5 hours ago, katlew said:

There is another thread about this which includes a post from Facebook from someone who was in one of the rooms that was effected. 

 

Which thread?

[katlew]

Just now, PeabodyMa said:

Which thread?

The post was deleted as it was apparently posted from Facebook without permission & I can’t delete my post. 

[cruiseej]

5 hours ago, LindaS272 said:

If you want to police someone’s response on CC please just report it.

 

I don't want to "police" anything, and I don't want to report anyone. I was only asking or suggesting to both posters, and any who might follow, to turn down the heat to continue discussing the incident in a calmer manner. 

 

4 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

The post I copied sure seemed to blame Viking's malfunctioning RHIB for the injury.

 

That comes from direct accounts reported by people onboard. The exact method or nature of the leg injury has not been reported. It could have been from the initial rupture of the Zodiac compartment, or perhaps getting tangled in a rope while falling overboard. But I don't think there's any question that the leg injury occurred during the Zodiac incident.

 

4 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

I'll suggest it is a bit of a stretch to consider a low pressure collar deflation as an explosion.

 

We were using the term used by those onboard. You may be right that "explosion" may not be technically accurate terminology. However, "low pressure deflation" makes it sound like a slow leak in a tire, not a violent event that threw one or two people overboard, and caused one person to suffer a severe leg injury. 

 

4 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

The Master can take any decision... if in their professional opinion, it is the best course of action. After an incident concludes, and more information is available, it is easy to 2nd guess the Master, who only had the initial information available.

 

I assume a ship's Master, like an airline captain, can be cleared or held responsible at the conclusion of an investigation. With airlines, a captain may make a decision in the moment which is later found to have been incorrect or not optimal — but the captain is cleared because it was an appropriate decision based on the information available and the captain's experience. Or a captain may be held accountable for making an incorrect decision which went against policies/procedures/best judgement based on the information which was available. But unlike an airline pilot who may have mere seconds to make life-changing decisions (like "Sully"), the cruise ship captain in this case undoubtedly had the opportunity to talk to the company's operations base for weather and medical advice, and to consider with local Argentine/Chilean authorities various alternatives like heading to a base in Antarctica or a medevac flight from Ushuaia. The captain's decision to depart the peninsula and head north to Ushuaia was not a split-second decision, and was almost certainly informed by collaboration with the home office and local authorities. 

 

 

[Catlover54]

There are multiple sources of early information about what happened, some posted on this CC thread below. We know a passenger's leg was severely injured by a malfunctioning Zodiak (someone called it "exploding"), but not what caused that.

 We have reports lay pax said the captain was rushing back to get that leg injured pax assistance (not necessarily rushing dangerously fast, or so fast that the act would result in inability to handle a rogue wave, which then killed 1 person and injured others when it broke windows -- we don't know if the so-called "rushing" event had anything to do with inability of the ship to handle the rogue wave).  We also don't know if it did not.  My understanding is there are not uncommonly rogue waves in the Antarctic, but they don't usually blow winodws out of cabins and thus kill passengers on cruise ships.  

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/topic/2897175-and-now-viking-experiences-tragedy/?_fromLogin=1#replyForm

 

There are also reports in Spanish papers and in other European languages, for those interested in digging into this some more.  I also read that Argentina is launching a criminal investigation.

 

The two men killed when the Zodiak tipped over on Quark last week (also in response to a rogue wave) were 76 and 80, but I don't know how old the dead and injured are on Polaris.

 

My guess is we will later have no access to any report on the series of events, much less on etiology or relation or capacity to assign blame.  Lawyers who sue cruise ships will have better luck if any of the pax injured or the estates of those dead are interested in  in suing. 

 

Any interest I had in going on Polaris is gone right now until I know more about what happened with the malfunctioning Zodiak, and why the rogue wave could not be handled properly.  I hope the report and explanations do not take years to receive.

 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Catlover54
Typo

[Doc who loves to travel]

This is what we saw. https://www.luxurytraveldocs.com/2022/12/viking-polaris-has-tragic-accident.html

 

We are praying for the people affected. Tragic. 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Doc who loves to travel

[deec]

14 hours ago, sippican said:

Received official cancellation notice from Viking

which sailing were you suppose to be on?  we are Polaris 12/27  to be in Buenos Aires.

[sippican]

1 minute ago, deec said:

which sailing were you suppose to be on?  we are Polaris 12/27  to be in Buenos Aires.

 

I was on the December 6th Polaris sailing. Good luck with your sailing. We are truly disappointed.

[Clay Clayton]

This is from the local news station here in Raleigh, NC about a couple onboard from Durham. (It appears the newscaster doesn’t know where Antartica is-or at least has a different idea about “paradise”’than I do😂 

 

https://www.wral.com/viking-polaris-cruise-ship-wave-crash-death/20608926/

 

 

[amyr]

5 minutes ago, Clay Clayton said:

This is from the local news station here in Raleigh, NC about a couple onboard from Durham. (It appears the newscaster doesn’t know where Antartica is-or at least has a different idea about “paradise”’than I do😂 

 

https://www.wral.com/viking-polaris-cruise-ship-wave-crash-death/20608926/

 

 

We were laughing about that too - a romantic cruise to paradise he called it.  He also drove himself out to RDU to do the reporting, despite the couple he was quoting being nowhere around.  They had left days earlier, and I’m not sure he knew when they were due home?  I guess it was as good a place as any to do a live shot 🤷‍♀️

 

We depart at 4:20 a.m. for our flight to Ushuaia. 

[Clay Clayton]

15 minutes ago, amyr said:

We were laughing about that too - a romantic cruise to paradise he called it.  He also drove himself out to RDU to do the reporting, despite the couple he was quoting being nowhere around.  They had left days earlier, and I’m not sure he knew when they were due home?  I guess it was as good a place as any to do a live shot 🤷‍♀️

 

We depart at 4:20 a.m. for our flight to Ushuaia. 

Safe travels! Be sure to enjoy romantic paradise😂