UK Restrictions Threaten 2021 TA

[pinotlover]

Sorry Sofie, I didn’t find that link. When I read your post, I took it be be an extension of the No Sail Order, not the conditional sail order. Not your fault mine. Had you posted the direct link initially, I would have caught the distinction. My bad not yours.

 

As to your point, I agree in that I’ve yet to read if any cruise lines pursuing meeting the Conditions as poorly defined. Like you, I don’t believe we’ll see any cruising from US ports for the foreseeable future. I’m still expecting the 22ATW to commence from a

non US port.

[Ride-The-Waves]

From the CDC:

 

What we know

Studies show that COVID-19 vaccines are effective at keeping you from getting COVID-19. Experts also think that getting a COVID-19 vaccine may help keep you from getting seriously ill even if you do get COVID-19.

COVID-19 vaccination is an important tool to help us get back to normal. Learn more about the benefits of getting vaccinated.

COVID-19 vaccines teach our immune systems how to recognize and fight the virus that causes COVID-19. It typically takes a few weeks after vaccination for the body to build protection (immunity) against the virus that causes COVID-19. That means it is possible a person could still get COVID-19 just after vaccination. This is because the vaccine has not had enough time to provide protection.

There are steps you can take to protect yourself until you can get vaccinated. Even after you get vaccinated it’s important to continue using all the tools available to help stop this pandemic as we learn more about how COVID-19 vaccines work in real-world conditions. Even after vaccination, take steps to protect yourself and others from COVID-19.

 

What we do not know

Although COVID-19 vaccines are effective at keeping you from getting sick, scientists are still learning how well vaccines prevent you from spreading the virus that causes COVID-19 to others, even if you do not get sick.

If you are vaccinated against COVID-19, you may still be exposed to the virus that causes COVID-19. After exposure, people can be infected with or “carry” the virus that causes COVID-19 but not feel sick or have any symptoms. Experts call this “asymptomatic infection.”

For this reason, even after vaccination, we need to continue using all the tools available to help stop this pandemic as we learn more about how COVID-19 vaccines work in real-world conditions.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/keythingstoknow.html

 

All of us need to follow this and our own country's guidance to rid humanity of this pandemic.  Cruising and human commerce are secondary to health.  No humans, no commerce needed.

 

[Ride-The-Waves]

14 hours ago, pinotlover said:

Sorry Sofie, I didn’t find that link. When I read your post, I took it be be an extension of the No Sail Order, not the conditional sail order. Not your fault mine. Had you posted the direct link initially, I would have caught the distinction. My bad not yours.

 

As to your point, I agree in that I’ve yet to read if any cruise lines pursuing meeting the Conditions as poorly defined. Like you, I don’t believe we’ll see any cruising from US ports for the foreseeable future. I’m still expecting the 22ATW to commence from a

non US port.

Hi from our Uniworld trip to Tibet!

 

The conditions are actually well defined.  Cruise lines have either been unable to develop procedures to comply or have decided to wait it out.  Either of those is not good for the cruising public.  To cruise we are looking at a "new normal" which will include in some form social distancing, changes to dining and entertainment, changes to port visits, wearing PPE in public spaces, changes to medical centers and health requirements.  The use of elevators, an essential aspect of cruising or even mid-sized ships, has flummoxed cruise lines.  How do you move passengers up/down ten deck in small elevators and still "social distance" for everyone's health.  I can envision new cruise ship interior designs to accommodate these requirements.  CDC its till waiting for cruise lines to respond to the request for "how will cruise be accomplish in the time of COVID-19?"

[susiesan]

1 hour ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

 To cruise we are looking at a "new normal" which will include in some form social distancing, changes to dining and entertainment, changes to port visits, wearing PPE in public spaces, changes to medical centers and health requirements.  

If this becomes the "new normal' even after the pandemic crisis has abated and everyone has been vaccinated, I have taken my last cruise. 

[Ride-The-Waves]

1 hour ago, susiesan said:

If this becomes the "new normal' even after the pandemic crisis has abated and everyone has been vaccinated, I have taken my last cruise. 

Some are saying that.  That said, "cruising" or its migration from ocean liners crossing the seas, was never meant for everyone.  "Cruising" will be back - but different.  And that is okay.

[susiesan]

2 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Some are saying that.  That said, "cruising" or its migration from ocean liners crossing the seas, was never meant for everyone.  "Cruising" will be back - but different.  And that is okay.

Agree. Different may not be for me anymore after 45 years of cruising. My husband is not particularly fond of cruises, he only goes with me because I plan and pay for everything. He would be happy not to cruise ever again.

[TrulyBlonde]

21 minutes ago, susiesan said:

Agree. Different may not be for me anymore after 45 years of cruising. My husband is not particularly fond of cruises, he only goes with me because I plan and pay for everything. He would be happy not to cruise ever again.

LOL....sounds familiar. I found that put him in Business Class for the flight and get him a suite with lot's of room and he won't complain. Truthfully, he would rather stay home.

[Hawaiidan]

21 hours ago, TrulyBlonde said:

LOL....sounds familiar. I found that put him in Business Class for the flight and get him a suite with lot's of room and he won't complain. Truthfully, he would rather stay home.

That people  want to stay stuck at home  is difficult  to fathom.... you only have so much time alive... Time is your enemy.... if you do not use it wisely....  However their choice., not mine.   I used take 4 day  jaunts to France to dine with FF miles rather than stay at home when my wife visited friends...  She goes out to dinner in Santa Barbara, cool.......I go out to dinner in Lyon and  Royanne....   Business class today is a mini vacation in and of its self.  Savor life before your doctor tells you your dying....

[TrulyBlonde]

1 hour ago, Hawaiidan said:

That people  want to stay stuck at home  is difficult  to fathom.... you only have so much time alive... Time is your enemy.... if you do not use it wisely....  However their choice., not mine.   I used take 4 day  jaunts to France to dine with FF miles rather than stay at home when my wife visited friends...  She goes out to dinner in Santa Barbara, cool.......I go out to dinner in Lyon and  Royanne....   Business class today is a mini vacation in and of its self.  Savor life before your doctor tells you your dying....

Thanks Dan,

Somehow I have been able to get him on 30 some cruises and every continent. Business Class, a glass of wine, and he is out until we land. His other choice is to sit at home with a TV dinner because the chef is going to travel 😉

[Hawaiidan]

5 minutes ago, TrulyBlonde said:

Thanks Dan,

Somehow I have been able to get him on 30 some cruises and every continent. Business Class, a glass of wine, and he is out until we land. His other choice is to sit at home with a TV dinner because the chef is going to travel 😉

To some the TV and sitting on the couch is safe territory....    Not me., having faced real death 3 times I am not sitting around for #4 to come along.   You either live life to the fullest or you do not live at all............  keep warm in Pitkin Cointy.

[clo]

On 2/18/2021 at 3:29 PM, sofietucker said:

How DARE YOU. 

Because that's who and how he is. He has an agenda and we mustn't get in his way.

[pinotlover]

31 minutes ago, clo said:

Because that's who and how he is. He has an agenda and we mustn't get in his way.

I do have an Agenda. I want the cruise industry to get back into operation as soon as reasonably possible. I understand that future cruising will never be 100% safe, therefore it may not be appropriate for all. I don’t want governmental bureaucrats to wait and mandate conditions that are 100% safe for all. That’s my Agenda.

 

I recognize that the industry has a timeline. Exceed that timeline and they go broke.

Some here have a clear Agenda that if cruising isn’t safe for them, they want no one to sail. I don’t share that Agenda. As my friend, a Medical Officer for a major cruise line, says “ cruise ships are not assisted living facilities “. Quite a few people don’t accept that. He also says that medical releases for cruise passengers are still very much in discussion. That horrifies some, so it’s no longer publicly discussed before sailing restarts.
 

Snow skiing is not appropriate for everyone. Scuba diving is not appropriate for everyone. Post Covid cruising, River and ocean cruising, may not be appropriate for everyone. My Agenda is getting cruising going again for those that can. I understand that is not a shared Agenda by many here.

 

There’s a lot of conflicting Agendas. Time will tell which ones prevail. I’m honest about mine.

[clo]

17 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

There’s a lot of conflicting Agendas. Time will tell which ones prevail. I’m honest about mine.

I appreciate what you wrote. Thanks.

[hawkesbaynz]

6 hours ago, pinotlover said:

Some here have a clear Agenda that if cruising isn’t safe for them, they want no one to sail. I don’t share that Agenda. As my friend, a Medical Officer for a major cruise line, says “ cruise ships are not assisted living facilities “. Quite a few people don’t accept that. He also says that medical releases for cruise passengers are still very much in discussion. That horrifies some, so it’s no longer publicly discussed before sailing 

My wife has a professional relationship with the medical department of another cruise line. They inform her they will be taking the overdue opportunity to become stricter with the pre-conditions of cruisers.

 

I have friends who cared  for their decrepit aged parents year round. Every year the parents would book a cruise and be deposit at Southampton docks. I believe they had a suite, so a little bit more care. Eventually they were denied boarding.

[Roger88]

As far as I know, the US is looking towards the UK right now in terms of future regulations. I mean I am sure they hold discussions of how to manage the situation so I think that everthing will be figured out sooner than later 

[susiesan]

7 hours ago, hawkesbaynz said:

My wife has a professional relationship with the medical department of another cruise line. They inform her they will be taking the overdue opportunity to become stricter with the pre-conditions of cruisers.

 

I have friends who cared  for their decrepit aged parents year round. Every year the parents would book a cruise and be deposit at Southampton docks. I believe they had a suite, so a little bit more care. Eventually they were denied boarding.

The days of elderly Americans using a cruise ship as an assisted living facility by booking months of cruises back to back on the same ship are over. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2020/01/23/did-you-know-you-could-retire-cruise-ship/

 

from the article:

A 2004 study in the Journal of the American Geriatrics Society compared cruise ships and assisted-living facilities as options for seniors, noting room size, facility amenities, medical care, the potential for visits and cost. The study estimated the cost of staying on a Royal Caribbean ship at the time to be about $33,260 a year, compared with the national average of $28,689 annually for an assisted-living facility

Edited February 21, 2021 by susiesan

[sofietucker]

My sailing agenda is the least restriction possible while being safe as possible--admittedly contradictory. I gave the facetious example of the cruiselines requiriing that everyone in a given port city also be vaccinated in order to allow us to wander...

 

But frankly on some itineraries, being forced to stay in the ship's shorex bubble--as well as pier-terminal restrictions, would in fact be a  dealbreaker. Not liking the shorex choices alone could do that; we also often meet up with local friends in some ports. 

 

Another aspect: in my a perfect world, every single person on board would have been vaccinated and therefore no masks would be required (yes, I know you can still get/have the virus, just not die from it). I am by no means an antimasker, have worn them since day one, but have also not gone to restaurants and clubs. So I envision, onboard at a bar or out & about: take off mask for a sip of wine, replace mask, take off mask for another sip, etc? Mask while laying by the pool?  

 

Especially seems like a lot if we are already forced to have no local contact in ports, so there will be no cootie contamination that way. But I recognize this is not gonna happen.

 

There's a fine line, for both cruising to "see & do stuff" and crusing to relax,  between being hampered in order to stay safe and being trusted to stay safe on our own in order to actually enjoy the experience we're paying for. Of course we could just stay in our suite, snooze on the balcony and order room service. But then why bother getting on a ship? Still waiting to see how it all shakes out.

Edited February 21, 2021 by sofietucker

[ORV]

7 hours ago, Roger88 said:

As far as I know, the US is looking towards the UK right now in terms of future regulations. I mean I am sure they hold discussions of how to manage the situation so I think that everthing will be figured out sooner than later 

Are you a real person or just an online construct someone made up?

[ORV]

14 hours ago, pinotlover said:

I do have an Agenda. I want the cruise industry to get back into operation as soon as reasonably possible. I understand that future cruising will never be 100% safe, therefore it may not be appropriate for all. I don’t want governmental bureaucrats to wait and mandate conditions that are 100% safe for all. That’s my Agenda.

 

I recognize that the industry has a timeline. Exceed that timeline and they go broke.

Some here have a clear Agenda that if cruising isn’t safe for them, they want no one to sail. I don’t share that Agenda. As my friend, a Medical Officer for a major cruise line, says “ cruise ships are not assisted living facilities “. Quite a few people don’t accept that. He also says that medical releases for cruise passengers are still very much in discussion. That horrifies some, so it’s no longer publicly discussed before sailing restarts.
 

Snow skiing is not appropriate for everyone. Scuba diving is not appropriate for everyone. Post Covid cruising, River and ocean cruising, may not be appropriate for everyone. My Agenda is getting cruising going again for those that can. I understand that is not a shared Agenda by many here.

 

There’s a lot of conflicting Agendas. Time will tell which ones prevail. I’m honest about mine.

One thing you might consider when it comes to the future of traveling is that cruising might become the domain of cruisers, and not travelers as you refer to it. I do completely expect the first cruises we see in the Caribbean area to be a combination of sea days and cruise line owned private islands. Pretty much like a moving Sandals or other AI type resort. For those that the ship is the destination this will be great, for those of us that actually like to go places and see things from the ports we stop at, not so much. 

 

A lot of it will be determined by the policies and conditions of the countries where the ships stop, as many here have pointed out. 

 

Just an idea I'm throwing out there that cruising might just not be a future option for real travelers. 

[pinotlover]

ORV;

 

I fully agree with your synopsis for cruises originating in the US. We’re not booking any of those. King Anthony ( Fauci) will do what he likes under Biden.

 

I’m awaiting the by 4/1 announcement by the EU on what approach they will take. If I can find it I’ll link a great article on the political ramifications of this decision.
 

Short story is Merkels party in Germany is wanting to stay in power. The German populace  is tired of bleeding cash to the Med States. Med States say “ if you cut off our tourism and ability to survive, then you have to send us cash.” Projections are that if Merkel’s Party votes to continue the ban on tourism, they’re history.

 

The decision coming out of Europe in tourism, including cruises, will be fascinating to watch. Only King Anthony doesn’t consider economic consequences.

 

 

[clo]

12 hours ago, hawkesbaynz said:

I have friends who cared  for their decrepit aged parents year round. Every year the parents would book a cruise and be deposit at Southampton docks. I believe they had a suite, so a little bit more care. Eventually they were denied boarding.

I've tried to make this point occasionally. It's the rare person who can cruise or even live unassisted til they die. 

[pinotlover]

I have cruised with an American couple whose children booked them on a long cruise so they could have a vacation. It wasn’t their first.

 

The father was completely senile and created problems for the crew. I’m sure they went on the “ Do not Sail” list thereafter. 
 

My TA told me that Agency Agreements require them to notify a potential new cruise line if their passengers have been banned from another line. Children’s response “ find a new Agent that doesn’t know the history and book the new lines through them. They want their vacation.

[clo]

4 hours ago, pinotlover said:

I have cruised with an American couple whose children booked them on a long cruise so they could have a vacation. It wasn’t their first.

 

The father was completely senile and created problems for the crew. I’m sure they went on the “ Do not Sail” list thereafter. 
 

My TA told me that Agency Agreements require them to notify a potential new cruise line if their passengers have been banned from another line. Children’s response “ find a new Agent that doesn’t know the history and book the new lines through them. They want their vacation.

And that's why we have what seems to be a ridiculous amount of money earmarked for assisted living. While people will say "oh my kids are gonna take care of me," what THAT actually means is that their kids are going to be prisoners in their own home. And good for the cruise line for standing firm. Just imagine the horrifying conclusions.

[marieps]

Considering the original topic of the thread, this is exceptional news:

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-22/u-k-s-johnson-sets-out-plan-for-full-economic-reopening-in-june

 

Can't cut and paste the timetable due to copyright rules.  Hope the link works for you folks.

[hamrag]

23 minutes ago, marieps said:

Considering the original topic of the thread, this is exceptional news:

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-22/u-k-s-johnson-sets-out-plan-for-full-economic-reopening-in-june

 

Can't cut and paste the timetable due to copyright rules.  Hope the link works for you folks.

 

I would describe it as aspirational news, BoJo has a record of over promising and under delivering. That said, with the vaccine rolling out at pace in the UK there is a possibility this will come to pass....by no means a certainty though!