Mandatory vaccination

[JamieLogical]

3 minutes ago, IrieBajan54 said:

Mandatory vaccinations as a policy continues to grow for the cruise industry.

 

"Royal Caribbean will set sail out of Israel for the first time this spring, and every passenger and crew member will be vaccinated. Starting in May, with three to seven-night journeys to the Greek Isles and Cyprus on its new Odyssey of the Seas, the cruise will leave from a port in Haifa for the first time ever, the cruise line said in a statement. Guests 16 years old and older on the sailings, along with all crew, will be required to be vaccinated against COVID-19."

 

https://www.travelandleisure.com/cruises/royal-caribbean-vaccinated-israel-sailings

 

I was excited to see this because it means they are working on how to implement a vaccine requirement on a large ship for a major cruise line. Hopefully that can serve a as a blueprint for the other major cruise lines and other RCCL ships. We have talked about the logistics a lot in this thread (at least in the beginning) and now we will get to see how those logistic are going to play out in the real world.

[Trimone]

Funny catching Covid-19 just before election, and the recovery will go down in history.

[macandlucy]

We don't know yet whether natural immunity is better or worse, short or long lasting; it's just too early to say at this point because we haven't studied it long enough to know.  There are some theories, but nothing conclusive yet. As time goes on and more research is conducted  we'll know more. At this point, we've only been measuring for about a year, at most.  History shows us that some prior viral infections provide lifelong (or near) immunity, and others don't, but at least some natural immunity is usually better than none at all when faced with the infection again. And there are always statistical outliers. 

 

We can't, however, draw the conclusion today that because someone recovered from Covid and is still advised to get the vaccine that it means that prior infection with covid doesn't provide immunity.  (There have been reports of people getting it twice, but those reports need to be studied. Was it really covid, how many pcr cycles were run on the tests, statistical significance of these numbers of two times infected, etc.)  In order to know how long natural immunity lasts, more  studies will have to be conducted going forward.  The advice to get vaccinated after a prior infection stems, imo, from an abundance of caution, which makes sense given the current uncertainty.

 

Anyway, I was just speculating about what another poster said about the Trumps getting vaccinated after having had covid and what that could mean for cruising. But, tbh, I still don't know.

 

 

 

 

[graphicguy]

23 hours ago, coffeebean said:

You heard me. Look it up. There are plenty of news reports about this.

I don't even know what to look up.  I think maybe you posted in the wrong thread?  

[RocketMan275]

On 3/2/2021 at 8:46 AM, geegee1 said:

And as the vaccine is around longer the longer we will know if this vax works differently.  What is the harm in continue wearing a mask if you are vaccinated?

Simply because I don't think the mask will provide enough additional protection to be worthwhile.

It's really a matter of personal perspective. 

If  you think you need the additional protection the mask provides over the vaccine, then by all means feel free to wear it.  But don't insist that others share your perspective.

[macandlucy]

I wear a good mask to protect myself. I don’t need the help from everyone else’s crummy 14% face filters. I’m fine with people making their own choices, especially on a ship full of vaccinated people. 

[JamieLogical]

41 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Simply because I don't think the mask will provide enough additional protection to be worthwhile.

It's really a matter of personal perspective. 

If  you think you need the additional protection the mask provides over the vaccine, then by all means feel free to wear it.  But don't insist that others share your perspective.

 

If ships require vaccination, then I won't feel compelled to wear a mask, because I won't be worried about getting anyone sick. If ships do not require vaccines and we sail before herd immunity has been achieved, I would feel compelled to wear a mask to protect others. At least until we have more data on whether vaccinated people can transmit the virus. I will be fully vaccinated long before any ships sail (second dose is scheduled for March 18).

[BirdTravels]

All vaccines help your body fight off the COVID virus when you catch the disease. As the J&J vaccine is being widely distributed, 33% of the J&J vaccinated people have a chance of having mild cases of COVID when they catch the disease. And that with all vaccines, you still have a 5-15% chance of having a moderate or severe case of COVID even when vaccinated. 

[JamieLogical]

37 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

All vaccines help your body fight off the COVID virus when you catch the disease. As the J&J vaccine is being widely distributed, 33% of the J&J vaccinated people have a chance of having mild cases of COVID when they catch the disease. And that with all vaccines, you still have a 5-15% chance of having a moderate or severe case of COVID even when vaccinated. 

 

Right. The goal is to avoid hospitalization and death. If mass vaccination brings those levels down to acceptable ranges, then we can proceed with life "as normal". Requiring passengers to get vaccinated means it's highly unlikely that a cruise passenger will require medical treatment for COVID beyond what the ship facilities can provide. It reduces the risk of medical evacuation. People may still get ill with COVID on board, but certainly at no higher rates than passengers get sick with flu or norovirus or rhinovirus or common colds. That's all we are trying to do here. Get COVID into an acceptable range like any other illness.

[macandlucy]

46 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

All vaccines help your body fight off the COVID virus when you catch the disease. As the J&J vaccine is being widely distributed, 33% of the J&J vaccinated people have a chance of having mild cases of COVID when they catch the disease. And that with all vaccines, you still have a 5-15% chance of having a moderate or severe case of COVID even when vaccinated. 

That statistical risk is if you are the only one vaccinated and you are exposed to people who are not vaccinated. It gets lower as you increase the number of vaccinated people in a population. It gets really low if everyone in the population is vaccinated. 

[DCGuy64]

1 hour ago, JamieLogical said:

 

Right. The goal is to avoid hospitalization and death. If mass vaccination brings those levels down to acceptable ranges, then we can proceed with life "as normal". Requiring passengers to get vaccinated means it's highly unlikely that a cruise passenger will require medical treatment for COVID beyond what the ship facilities can provide. It reduces the risk of medical evacuation. People may still get ill with COVID on board, but certainly at no higher rates than passengers get sick with flu or norovirus or rhinovirus or common colds. That's all we are trying to do here. Get COVID into an acceptable range like any other illness.

THANK YOU!

[RocketMan275]

2 hours ago, JamieLogical said:

 

If ships require vaccination, then I won't feel compelled to wear a mask, because I won't be worried about getting anyone sick. If ships do not require vaccines and we sail before herd immunity has been achieved, I would feel compelled to wear a mask to protect others. At least until we have more data on whether vaccinated people can transmit the virus. I will be fully vaccinated long before any ships sail (second dose is scheduled for March 18).

I only wear a mask to protect myself.  If I've been vaccinated, then there is no need for me to wear a mask.  

[JamieLogical]

6 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

I only wear a mask to protect myself.  If I've been vaccinated, then there is no need for me to wear a mask.  

 

Unless you are wearing an N95, you aren't really protecting yourself very effectively. Masks are primarily worn to protect others. It seems fairly selfish to only wear a mask to protect yourself. When you don't wear a mask, you are potentially exposing others, whether they are wearing masks or not. Until N95 masks are readily available to everyone, they have no way of protecting themselves from you if you refuse to wear a mask. Hopefully, if they encounter you on a cruise ship, this won't be an issue, because they will have been vaccinated. But right now, in the US, only 8% of the population has been fully vaccinated and vaccine and N95 supply is limited. So hopefully you aren't employing this "only wear a mask to protect myself" strategy in the current environment.

Edited March 4, 2021 by JamieLogical

[coffeebean]

7 hours ago, graphicguy said:

I don't even know what to look up.  I think maybe you posted in the wrong thread?  

Google........"President Trump and Melania vaccinated secretly".

 

 

[Beach Life 1]

32 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

Google........"President Trump and Melania vaccinated secretly".

 

 

What is your problem?   Can  you just come out with it?  So they got vaccinated, so did millions of other people.    What are your trying to say?  

[coffeebean]

56 minutes ago, jezabel80 said:

What is your problem?   Can  you just come out with it?  So they got vaccinated, so did millions of other people.    What are your trying to say?  

Did you read any of the articles? You will get your answer. I will not discuss this further for fear of getting a "time out" on this site.

Here is one example. It seems you need it spelled out for you.......

 

Trump and Melania vaccinated secretly

Edited March 5, 2021 by coffeebean

[roger001]

36 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

Did you read any of the articles? You will get your answer. I will not discuss this further for fear of getting a "time out" on this site.

Here is one example. It seems you need it spelled out for you.......

 

Trump and Melania vaccinated secretly

Due to the significance of the position of the President of the US, who ever that might be, yes they are going to be given the maximum level of protection, even medically.  Goes with the title.  So what!  What’s your point here?

[coffeebean]

22 minutes ago, roger001 said:

Due to the significance of the position of the President of the US, who ever that might be, yes they are going to be given the maximum level of protection, even medically.  Goes with the title.  So what!  What’s your point here?

Oh my goodness. You are totally missing the point. I will not discuss any further. Please read the article I linked. That says everything you need to understand what my point is.

[Sea saw 56]

26 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

Oh my goodness. You are totally missing the point. I will not discuss any further. Please read the article I linked. That says everything you need to understand what my point is.

Fake news, of course they would vaccinate.  Propaganda.

[Beach Life 1]

1 hour ago, coffeebean said:

Did you read any of the articles? You will get your answer. I will not discuss this further for fear of getting a "time out" on this site.

Here is one example. It seems you need it spelled out for you.......

 

Trump and Melania vaccinated secretly

I guess I do need it spelled out for me.  I read the article, and I still don't understand your point.  What does this all have to do with mandating vaccines for cruising?  You said if vaccines are mandatory to cruise, Donald Trump and Melania will be able to board a cruise ship.   What does that even mean ??? You posted something that no one understands,  but yet you refuse to discuss it further.   Sorry, I just don't understand what you're trying to say.  I give up.

[coffeebean]

8 minutes ago, Sea saw 56 said:

Fake news, of course they would vaccinate.  Propaganda.

You are still missing the point.

Read all the news articles and come to your own conclusions.

Hint: Set an example for anti-vaxxers. Get it now?

Edited March 5, 2021 by coffeebean

[coffeebean]

26 minutes ago, jezabel80 said:

I guess I do need it spelled out for me.  I read the article, and I still don't understand your point.  What does this all have to do with mandating vaccines for cruising?  You said if vaccines are mandatory to cruise, Donald Trump and Melania will be able to board a cruise ship.   What does that even mean ??? You posted something that no one understands,  but yet you refuse to discuss it further.   Sorry, I just don't understand what you're trying to say.  I give up.

I guess you might say what I posted was a round about way for some folks out there to reconsider being vaccinated. Seems cruise lines will be mandating their passengers to be vaccinated so more folks who are "on the fence" so to speak, will be in compliance to board the ships by being vaccinated.

Edited March 5, 2021 by coffeebean

[Beach Life 1]

7 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

I guess you might say what I posted was a round about way for some folks out there to reconsider being vaccinated. Seems cruise lines will be mandating their passengers to be vaccinated so more folks who are "on the fence" so to speak, will be in compliance to board the ships by being vaccinated.

That certainly was a round about way,  but thank you for your explanation.

[Sea saw 56]

Yes, I get it. I am not missing any truthful points. A typical BS spin.
 The President and Melania did receive vaccines that they supported and pushed (unprecidently quick)  through development.

As with others here, don’t understand your problem with President and Mrs Trump getting their vaccines.  
I got mine today, hooray!!

I will be ready if vaccines are mandated for travel, and also feel the vaccine will protect myself and some critically ill friends I want to spend time around, without feeling I am compromising their health.

These are personal preferences, I would not criticize anyone else for their preference.  Try it.

 

 

[coffeebean]

24 minutes ago, Sea saw 56 said:

Yes, I get it. I am not missing any truthful points. A typical BS spin.
 The President and Melania did receive vaccines that they supported and pushed (unprecidently quick)  through development.

As with others here, don’t understand your problem with President and Mrs Trump getting their vaccines.  
I got mine today, hooray!!

I will be ready if vaccines are mandated for travel, and also feel the vaccine will protect myself and some critically ill friends I want to spend time around, without feeling I am compromising their health.

These are personal preferences, I would not criticize anyone else for their preference.  Try it.

 

 

Where is the spin? I don't quite understand your POV. I'm not being critical of them having their vaccines. What I find fault with is that they did it secretively. They should have had their shots in front of the cameras to capture the moment and to set a wonderful example for the American people. Folks who are on the fence and fearful of these vaccines (AKA anti-vaxxers), would be encouraged and assured, and maybe they would consider going ahead and getting themselves vaccinated.

 

This is the reason why celebrities and politicians have been getting their shots in front of the cameras. They set a good example for Americans, something the Trump's unfortunately avoided. They could have done something for the good of our country. They opted not to do that. Needless to say, I'm greatly disappointed in both of them.

Edited March 5, 2021 by coffeebean