Is Iceland considered a "faraway port"?

[Alakegirl]

I’m not sure why the PVSA causes such confusion.

 

If you are getting on in one US city and getting off in a different US city, you need to visit a distant foreign port as defined in the Act.

 

if you were getting on in one US city and getting off in the same US city, any foreign port visit will do.

 

If you are getting on in one US city and getting off at a non-US city, you are good to go and don’t need to worry about distant foreign port, near foreign port, etc. ———  you are good to go.

 

Thus, you can embark in Los Angeles and disembark in Los Angeles by visiting any foreign port.

 

You can also embark in Los Angeles and disembark in Ensenada, no problem.

 

The problem comes if you try to embark in Los Angeles and disembark in Hawaii. Or embark in Los Angeles and disembark in San Francisco. There is no distant foreign port you can visit on these itineraries. There is no distant foreign port in Canada or Mexico, As defined in the PVSA.

 

Over on the East Coast, you can embark in New Jersey and disembark in New Jersey with a visit to any foreign port.

 

To embark in New Jersey and disembark in Boston, you need one of those pesky distant foreign ports.

 

And there is no problem at all with and embarking in New Jersey, and disembarking in any foreign country.  

Edited March 19, 2021 by Alakegirl

[wrk2cruise]

22 minutes ago, Alakegirl said:

To embark in New Jersey and disembark in Boston, you need one of those pesky distant foreign ports.

 

This is why the Summit repositioning cruises from Boston to Miami and Miami to Boston have to call on Aruba which is the closest distant foreign port.

[Host Jazzbeau]

Just now, wrk2cruise said:

 

This is why the Summit repositioning cruises from Boston to Miami and Miami to Boston have to call on Aruba which is the closest distant foreign port.

And that's why I say the PSVA uses legal definitions and not common sense – no part of the Caribbean is a 'distant foreign port' except the ABC islands.  Go figure!

[Arizona Wildcat]

5 hours ago, Fouremco said:

Foreign flagged ships can't have closed loop cruises visiting only US ports; there must be a foreign port visited. Ensenada in the case of Princess Hawaiian cruise, or Victoria on Vancouver Island for a closed loop Alaskan cruise out of Seattle.

 

In the OP's case, the cruise starts in one US port and finishes in another. Although operating as two separate cruises, one to Iceland and the other back to the US, the PVSA considers a b2b cruise as a single entity. As a result, it becomes a cruise from one US city terminating in a second US city and must visit a distant foreign port. Iceland qualifies and the b2b cruise is fine.

The cruise in question makes stops in Greenland and Canada as well.  Surprised at The questions about PVSA.  Nothing different here from a TA from the US to Europe followed by and immediate TA back to the US.  Celebrity has done this many times.

[Fouremco]

13 hours ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

The cruise in question makes stops in Greenland and Canada as well.  Surprised at The questions about PVSA.  Nothing different here from a TA from the US to Europe followed by and immediate TA back to the US.  Celebrity has done this many times.

Whether or not one agrees with it, the PVSA seems fairly straightforward, but you're right, every time the subject comes up, the same questions arise.

 

I think that the US-Iceland-US b2b will probably be quite a popular cruise for those who enjoy extended sailings. While the European TA's that turn around and head right back to the US do fit in the same mold from a PVSA perspective, I don't believe that a b2b sailing has ever been popular choice. Unless you are a real sea day enthusiast! 

[Arizona Wildcat]

9 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

Whether or not one agrees with it, the PVSA seems fairly straightforward, but you're right, every time the subject comes up, the same questions arise.

 

I think that the US-Iceland-US b2b will probably be quite a popular cruise for those who enjoy extended sailings. While the European TA's that turn around and head right back to the US do fit in the same mold from a PVSA perspective, I don't believe that a b2b sailing has ever been popular choice. Unless you are a real sea day enthusiast! 

Actually this has been scheduled NY to Southampton and return to Boston or NY some dozen times.  It has been VERY popular with rates about double a normal TA.  The reason is port stops in Iceland and Greenland.  Greenland a sort of bucket list visit for many.  The cruise on Summit for this August has been mostly sold out for 2 years 

[thinfool]

The reason you cannot find "Distant" foreign ports in the law is because the CPB makes the determination, and that determination is contained in the CFR (code of federal regulations) .  I have forgotten where, but that's where it is.

 

Crystal cruises has for the last 2-3 years sailed the now melted "Northwest Passage" across Canada from Anchorage to Boston.  A 'Distant' foreign port was/is required on this itinerary.

 

The port call in Greenland (forgot the port name) was deemed by CPB to be "Distant" and so the sailing was legal and afaik continues to be offered.

 

Greenland is far closer to the US than Iceland, but for PVSA purposes is "Distant".

[Fouremco]

19 minutes ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

Actually this has been scheduled NY to Southampton and return to Boston or NY some dozen times.  It has been VERY popular with rates about double a normal TA.  The reason is port stops in Iceland and Greenland.  Greenland a sort of bucket list visit for many.  The cruise on Summit for this August has been mostly sold out for 2 years 

I was thinking of the Southerly route TA's. 

[Gonzo70]

19 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

And that's why I say the PSVA uses legal definitions and not common sense – no part of the Caribbean is a 'distant foreign port' except the ABC islands.  Go figure!

 

My understanding is the definition of "distant" for the PVSA is outside of North America. The ABC islands are in South America, so qualify as distant just as a stop in Colombia qualifies for a Panama Canal cruise starting in one US city and ending in another. The non-ABC Caribbean destinations cruises generally call upon are within North America so they are not considered distant (i.e. Jamaica, St. Martin, St. Thomas etc). It is not random/arbitrary that the ABC islands are considered distant versus other Caribbean islands, it has to do with them being the islands that fall outside of North America.

[cruisestitch]

And yet, Trinidad and Tobago are not considered distant foreign ports, are they?  One might argue that they are part of South America. 

[Host Jazzbeau]

I figured that Spritzer & Fuhrmann had paid somebody off.  [Anybody else old enough to remember them?  We still have our wedding china and crystal that we ordered in their Curacao store...]

[Arizona Wildcat]

1 hour ago, cruisestitch said:

And yet, Trinidad and Tobago are not considered distant foreign ports, are they?  One might argue that they are part of South America. 

They are distant foreign ports.  They indeed are considered geographically part of South America, not the Caribbean.

[cruisestitch]

It’s interesting that they act specifies Aruba Bonaire and Curaçao but does not include Trinidad and Tobago.  
 

If the ABC’s are in South America, there would be no need to specify them only if they are not in South America and are being listed as exceptions. So why is Trinidad and Tobago not in the same category?  
 

 

[thinfool]

1 hour ago, cruisestitch said:

It’s interesting that they act specifies Aruba Bonaire and Curaçao but does not include Trinidad and Tobago.  
 

If the ABC’s are in South America, there would be no need to specify them only if they are not in South America and are being listed as exceptions. So why is Trinidad and Tobago not in the same category?  
 

 

Trinidad and Tobago are 'Distant foreign ports" because they are not described as "near foreign ports" according to the regulations.

...Transportation between U.S. points via a “distant foreign port”

o A “distant foreign port” is any foreign port that is not defined as a “nearby foreign port.”38 A “nearby foreign port” is defined as any foreign port in North or Central America, the Bermuda Islands, or the West Indies (except the Leeward Islands of the Netherlands Antilles, i.e., Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao).

[Host Jazzbeau]

1 hour ago, thinfool said:

Trinidad and Tobago are 'Distant foreign ports" because they are not described as "near foreign ports" according to the regulations.

...Transportation between U.S. points via a “distant foreign port”

o A “distant foreign port” is any foreign port that is not defined as a “nearby foreign port.”38 A “nearby foreign port” is defined as any foreign port in North or Central America, the Bermuda Islands, or the West Indies (except the Leeward Islands of the Netherlands Antilles, i.e., Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao).

This certainly sounds like "the Leeward Islands of the Netherlands Antilles" are in the West Indies, not South America, and are being made an exception.  So why would Trinidad and Tobago not also be in the West Indies?  [I stand on my original view that this isn't about geography or common sense, but about a bureaucratic definition – that sounds increasingly fishy to me!]

[markeb]

21 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

This certainly sounds like "the Leeward Islands of the Netherlands Antilles" are in the West Indies, not South America, and are being made an exception.  So why would Trinidad and Tobago not also be in the West Indies?  [I stand on my original view that this isn't about geography or common sense, but about a bureaucratic definition – that sounds increasingly fishy to me!]

Curiosity got the best of me on one of the recent threads, and the more you look, the fishier everything gets on that entire topic. The CFR actually allows the only thing the actual law prohibits by invoking the distant foreign port concept. Apparently everyone bought off on who’s in and who’s out in 1984, and thus it shall ever be.

[Host Jazzbeau]

36 minutes ago, markeb said:

Curiosity got the best of me on one of the recent threads, and the more you look, the fishier everything gets on that entire topic. The CFR actually allows the only thing the actual law prohibits by invoking the distant foreign port concept. Apparently everyone bought off on who’s in and who’s out in 1984, and thus it shall ever be.

Or ... was bought off

[JeanieC,Aston]

On 3/18/2021 at 10:29 PM, upwarduk said:

Geologically, Iceland is split by a Rift Valley, which can be straddled, one foot on the European side, the other on the American. We went on an excursion, where the tour guide did this.

Like this....

You can see the split in the bottom photo.

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by JeanieC,Aston