Worrying Answers From CDC Director on Conditional Sailing Order

[mianmike]

3 hours ago, Incognito1 said:

Obesity is a far bigger and more expensive problem in the US, but I don't see legislation requiring a limit on how many trips to the buffet someone can make or how many donuts somebody can eat in a single sitting.

 

Agree with you with the caveat:

 

Obesity is self-inflicted.  It's not like there are secondhand calories drifting through the air making unsuspecting people fat.  

[BoozinCroozin]

She sounded like a bumbling idiot!!! Instead of answering the question, she attempted to deflect. She made Billy Madison look like a genius at the end of the movie with the Puppy and Revolution. 

 

The attempt to blame this on the DOT was so stupid. The DOT has not once shutdown or put restrictions on travel. The only organization in the US to put restrictions on anything is the CDC. They have targeted a single industry. If I were CCL, RCL, and NCL, I would file a lawsuit to have an injunction on the No Sail Order. Bring these idiots in front of court requiring direct answers. Their only reason for it is an egotistical attempt at power. 

[BoozinCroozin]

14 hours ago, MichiganBound said:

Sadly, we have too many people that refuse to respect the rules and mitigations to avoid catching COVID.   I live in rural/small town Michigan and throughout the pandemic, people's willingness to follow the masking and social distancing rules has been quite spotty.

There are no rules, only suggestions. 6 feet of social distancing ONLY works if EVERYONE is stationary and air is not circulating. Even the CDC couldn't get a mask mandate correct: no need for a mask, wear a mask, don't wear this mask, oh that mask is ok now, don't wear one mask you need 2, wear 3 masks, social distancing is required except for schools and planes. Does any of that sound like the "experts" have any clue after 12 months? You do realize that the number of cases with and without a mask is the same? Masks have either done nothing or had no affect at reducing the infection rates.

 

The fact of the matter is we have an organization that wants all the control with none of the responsibility. They have been given power with no oversight and no expertise. The entire country now knows that those running the CDC are morons.  

[hamrag]

6 hours ago, HuliHuli said:

You know @MSUjohn, I'll will defend your right to say that, but the Constitution is so much more than the parchment on which it is written.  It is a vision for the greatest Republic in the world, a charter for an unbreakable Union of States, and our calling card to the World that people fight to be a part of....

 

🤣 🤣

 

[hamrag]

23 minutes ago, BoozinCroozin said:

There are no rules, only suggestions. 6 feet of social distancing ONLY works if EVERYONE is stationary and air is not circulating. Even the CDC couldn't get a mask mandate correct: no need for a mask, wear a mask, don't wear this mask, oh that mask is ok now, don't wear one mask you need 2, wear 3 masks, social distancing is required except for schools and planes. Does any of that sound like the "experts" have any clue after 12 months? You do realize that the number of cases with and without a mask is the same? Masks have either done nothing or had no affect at reducing the infection rates.....

 

 

You do realise that over 2,736,000 have died with COVID-19 worldwide, of which 555,000 were USA citizens....yes?

[hamrag]

4 hours ago, Incognito1 said:

....Who should be making the "rules"?  People who keep flip-flopping on what they are?  Or individuals that weigh their own risks and accept their own consequences?

 

And therein lies the absolute problem with this mememememe generation, with no consideration for anyone other than....me!!

[BoozinCroozin]

5 minutes ago, hamrag said:

 

You do realise that over 2,736,000 have died with COVID-19 worldwide, of which 555,000 were USA citizens....yes?

I know many people have been labelled as "covid related". Early on (first 3 months at least), patients labeled this way didn't even have to be tested to be listed as a Covid death. I am not saying there aren't covid deaths specifically. What I am saying is the data is flawed and we will never know the true number. I know someone that was going to be moved to hospice care because of untreatable metastatic cancer. Died before going to hospice but listed as a covid death because it was a "possibility". 

[onlyslightlymad]

1 hour ago, BoozinCroozin said:

I know many people have been labelled as "covid related". Early on (first 3 months at least), patients labeled this way didn't even have to be tested to be listed as a Covid death. I am not saying there aren't covid deaths specifically. What I am saying is the data is flawed and we will never know the true number. I know someone that was going to be moved to hospice care because of untreatable metastatic cancer. Died before going to hospice but listed as a covid death because it was a "possibility". 

If you are concerned about the validity of the stats in your country, I would suggest looking at the predicted death rate for 2020 and comparing it to the actual death rate.  With a large event like a pandemic one would expect to see more deaths than in a normal year.  Then I would compare those excess deaths to the death rate reported for covid.  You should then get a sense of how accurate the stats are.  

[BoozinCroozin]

1 hour ago, onlyslightlymad said:

If you are concerned about the validity of the stats in your country, I would suggest looking at the predicted death rate for 2020 and comparing it to the actual death rate.  With a large event like a pandemic one would expect to see more deaths than in a normal year.  Then I would compare those excess deaths to the death rate reported for covid.  You should then get a sense of how accurate the stats are.  

The 2020 death rate was at the same rate increase as the previous 6 years...continuing declining trend since 2014. So statistically speaking, covid either had no increase in the death rate or the cause of death was manipulated to a narrative. Take out the 361k deaths due to covid, then the death rate would have dropped by 3% which has never been seen in the US over the course of the last 7 decades at least. Therefore, the only conclusion is that covid had no effect on the overall death rate in the US. You either have to accept that fact or accept the fact that due to some unknown miracle, we have found a cure to 3% of the deaths in the US.

 

2020 Deaths: 8.9

2019 Deaths: 8.8

2020 Deaths labelled covid: 361k

 

(8.9 - 0.361 - 8.8) / 8.8 = -2.97%

[drew69]

9 hours ago, HuliHuli said:

You know @MSUjohn, I'll will defend your right to say that, but the Constitution is so much more than the parchment on which it is written.  It is a vision for the greatest Republic in the world, a charter for an unbreakable Union of States, and our calling card to the World that people fight to be a part of.  GOD Bless the USA!

🤐

[Diver2014]

The CDC consists of a bunch of tyrants who would keep everyone in lockdown until the very last case of the virus was eliminated. 

[Travelicious]

Ah, the good old days - when I was a smoker and smoking was allowed everywhere.  Happily, both of those things have long since changed.  Seems like another lifetime.

 

On too many CC threads, this one included, I am learning way too much about too many people's political views.  I would prefer to only know you all as enthusiastic cruisers.  

[boatseller]

17 hours ago, MichiganBound said:

Sadly, your expressed position is shared by a certain swath of the population and is precisely why the US has fared so poorly throughout the COVID crisis compared to some other countries.  It is also the reason why we are currently unable to cruise from the US  right now.

Hahahaha!  Ok, i'm done laughing.  Come to Florida and learn how responsible people handle situations.

 

Please, please, try to prove me wrong, you'll either learn somthing or provide some more good laughs.

[graphicguy]

The gating factor will be when one of the big cruise lines starts cruising from a non-U.S. or Canadian port (like the Bahamas, as just one example).  All of a sudden, the very real economic impact of shifting dollars from a place like Orlando (again, just one example) to originating out of Paradise Island, and the shift in sail orders will be swift and far reaching.

Edited March 23, 2021 by graphicguy

[onlyslightlymad]

7 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said:

The 2020 death rate was at the same rate increase as the previous 6 years...continuing declining trend since 2014. So statistically speaking, covid either had no increase in the death rate or the cause of death was manipulated to a narrative. Take out the 361k deaths due to covid, then the death rate would have dropped by 3% which has never been seen in the US over the course of the last 7 decades at least. Therefore, the only conclusion is that covid had no effect on the overall death rate in the US. You either have to accept that fact or accept the fact that due to some unknown miracle, we have found a cure to 3% of the deaths in the US.

 

2020 Deaths: 8.9

2019 Deaths: 8.8

2020 Deaths labelled covid: 361k

 

(8.9 - 0.361 - 8.8) / 8.8 = -2.97%

Interesting.  So, by 8.9, do you mean 8.9 million deaths in 2020?  Or does the 8.9 represent something else?

Edited March 23, 2021 by onlyslightlymad

[MichiganBound]

10 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said:

There are no rules, only suggestions. 6 feet of social distancing ONLY works if EVERYONE is stationary and air is not circulating. Even the CDC couldn't get a mask mandate correct: no need for a mask, wear a mask, don't wear this mask, oh that mask is ok now, don't wear one mask you need 2, wear 3 masks, social distancing is required except for schools and planes. Does any of that sound like the "experts" have any clue after 12 months? You do realize that the number of cases with and without a mask is the same? Masks have either done nothing or had no affect at reducing the infection rates.

....and it's precisely due to views like the above (and the behavior that ensues) that we can't have nice things right now....like cruises.  If people would have been more concerned about the well-being of the country and their fellow citizens (and therefore followed the guidelines/rules/mandates much more strictly) we would have already been back on the high seas out of US ports.  We could learn a whole lot from Asia/Australia/NZ.  They are largely living COVID-free right now and conducting pretty normal lives whilst most of North America and Europe continues to wade through on-going infections, hospitalizations, and death due to COVID.  Such a shame.  It didn't have to be this way.

[BoozinCroozin]

17 minutes ago, onlyslightlymad said:

Interesting.  So, by 8.9, do you mean 8.9 million deaths in 2020?  Or does the 8.9 represent something else?

Deaths per 1,000 people. So, 0.89% (if I math right).

[ray98]

Now the America haters have been riled up.....🙄

[onlyslightlymad]

2 minutes ago, BoozinCroozin said:

Deaths per 1,000 people. So, 0.89% (if I math right).

I did a quick google.  I think you are right - death per 1000 people in the population.  The problem with that is that your 0.361 doesn't work.  If you take that 361K as deaths per 1000 of population in the USA then I think that's about 0.0096,  I'm not saying you're necessarily right or wrong in your assumptions, just that you are taking the wrong tack with your calculations.

[onlyslightlymad]

1 minute ago, ray98 said:

Now the America haters have been riled up.....🙄

?

[BoozinCroozin]

7 minutes ago, onlyslightlymad said:

I did a quick google.  I think you are right - death per 1000 people in the population.  The problem with that is that your 0.361 doesn't work.  If you take that 361K as deaths per 1000 of population in the USA then I think that's about 0.0096,  I'm not saying you're necessarily right or wrong in your assumptions, just that you are taking the wrong tack with your calculations.

You are correct that more calculation is needed. My original calculation was based on the 8.9 being 8.9M deaths. I don't have time to math more.

[Trimone]

15 hours ago, Incognito1 said:

Obesity is a far bigger and more expensive problem in the US, but I don't see legislation requiring a limit on how many trips to the buffet someone can make or how many donuts somebody can eat in a single sitting.

Edited 15 hours ago by Incognito1

Thinking about it, I wonder how many lives have been saved from obesity and diabetes in the last year since cruising stopped, those buffet PIGS who load the plates, then leave half....

[onlyslightlymad]

20 minutes ago, BoozinCroozin said:

You are correct that more calculation is needed. My original calculation was based on the 8.9 being 8.9M deaths. I don't have time to math more.

I fully understand.  I suggest making it more simple and going back to the original numbers.  The problem is it takes time for death numbers to come through so the final count may not even exist for 2020 yet.  Or at least it does for most countries, I don't know for the US.  Here's an interesting thought for you though.  I live in NZ and from what I have read, it is possible that we will have fewer deaths in 2020 as a consequence of the covid lockdown.  We have had 26 covid deaths, and would normally have expected 1600 more deaths in 2020 due to influenza.  But because of lockdown, social distancing etc, we didn't have a flu season.  That said, we will only really know what the stats were looking back from years in the future.  It is also possible that some people missed out on medical care because of staying away from hospitals.  I guess time will bring the stats into focus.  

[ray98]

37 minutes ago, onlyslightlymad said:

?

 

Just the ramblings about the Constitution being "a piece of paper" and such.

[HuliHuli]

2 hours ago, MichiganBound said:

....and it's precisely due to views like the above (and the behavior that ensues) that we can't have nice things right now....like cruises.  If people would have been more concerned about the well-being of the country and their fellow citizens (and therefore followed the guidelines/rules/mandates much more strictly) we would have already been back on the high seas out of US ports.  We could learn a whole lot from Asia/Australia/NZ.  They are largely living COVID-free right now and conducting pretty normal lives whilst most of North America and Europe continues to wade through on-going infections, hospitalizations, and death due to COVID.  Such a shame.  It didn't have to be this way.