Encouraging news about cruises hoping to return to Key West

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, johnnyswitzerland said:

Thank you for the update.  What happens next?  Is it possible for Key West to appeal this somehow?

Well, the law takes away the authority of the county port authority, but it cherry picks which ones it applies to, not touching the large, politically effective ports like Miami, Port Everglades or Tampa, so that could be a basis for appeal.  Someone who knows Florida state law would have to say whether there are other grounds for appeal.  Again, not sure what legal basis the state has for claiming that the port of Key West affects the entire state, or what the history is in the state of overturning referendums.

[generichandle]

Sadly, in general, cities are creatures of the state. That is; state can overrule virtually anything they disagree with done by cities. In Michigan, they even removed a lot of elected city governments, took over land there, and gave it to contributors for an upscale golf course. You can guess who the city officials were, and who was running the state. 

[Daniel A]

18 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Well, the law takes away the authority of the county port authority, but it cherry picks which ones it applies to, not touching the large, politically effective ports like Miami, Port Everglades or Tampa, so that could be a basis for appeal.

The prior bill which basically got whittled down to only applying to Key West died on the vine.  The next day, the following amendment got inserted into an omnibus transportation bill which was very popular in the legislature.  Senate bill 1194 was amended to read in part:

 

"311.25 Florida seaports; local ballot initiatives and referendums.—

(1) With respect to any port that has received or is eligible to apply for or receive state funding under this chapter, a local ballot initiative or referendum may not restrict maritime commerce in such a port, including, but not limited to, restricting such commerce based on any of the following:  (a) Vessel type, size, number, or capacity.  (b) Number, origin, nationality, embarkation, or disembarkation of passengers or crew or their entry into this state or any local jurisdiction.  (c) Source, type, loading, or unloading of cargo.  (d) Environmental or health records of a particular vessel  or vessel line."

 

It appears that the 'cherry picking' aspect of the prior bill which failed has been eliminated and the new requirements apply to any port which either already gets or could get funding from the state.  I would think that if a port doesn't take any funding from the state but would be able to apply for funding can't use a local referendum to restrict any marine traffic.  This new amendment applies state wide and the bill has passed both houses of the state legislature.

[Himself]

Since I have friends in Marathon Key and I get to see them when the ship stops in Key West, I do not feel bad about the decision.

[cruisemom42]

33 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

It appears that the 'cherry picking' aspect of the prior bill which failed has been eliminated and the new requirements apply to any port which either already gets or could get funding from the state.  I would think that if a port doesn't take any funding from the state but would be able to apply for funding can't use a local referendum to restrict any marine traffic.  This new amendment applies state wide and the bill has passed both houses of the state legislature.

 

Interesting development. 

 

I wonder if other states that have cruise ports have some kind of similar legislation? 

[nocl]

On 4/30/2021 at 11:22 AM, Diver2014 said:

Without tourists, Key West is just a sleepy little town that happens to have a naval air station.  They need the tourist revenue.  The economy of the keys from Key Largo to Key West is largely dependent upon tourism. The residents know that.

Yes but they also know that 80% of their tourist revenue comes from the 50% of the tourist that do not come by cruise ships.  Those that drive or fly down and stay in the hotels there.

 

the 50% that come by cruise ship only generates 20% of the revenue and is negatively impacting both local living conditions, as well as negatively impacting the tourist experience for those that do not come by cruise ship.

 

So basically the referendum  was a vote to cut out a large port or the 50% of day tripping cruise ship passengers, in return for giving up a small percentage of tourism income.  Maybe get rid of some of the t shirt shops and other business (diamonds international, etc) that specialize on the cruise ship business.

[nocl]

On 5/1/2021 at 9:54 AM, iancal said:

We have been to Key West once on a cruise and once on a land trip when there were no cruises in town.

 

We would never go back on a cruise.   If we go again on a land trip we will check to make sure that there are no cruise ships docked.

 

We found our two experiences like day and night.   Land trip visit was far less crowded, far more enjoyable.    But...this is the same for a number of ports in our experience.

We have visiting Key West on land trips.  The difference of the experience when there is no cruise ship in town is striking.  As with you I will not visit by cruise ship or when a cruise ship is in town.

[nocl]

On 5/27/2021 at 12:13 PM, chengkp75 said:

Well, the law takes away the authority of the county port authority, but it cherry picks which ones it applies to, not touching the large, politically effective ports like Miami, Port Everglades or Tampa, so that could be a basis for appeal.  Someone who knows Florida state law would have to say whether there are other grounds for appeal.  Again, not sure what legal basis the state has for claiming that the port of Key West affects the entire state, or what the history is in the state of overturning referendums.

I do not see anything in the law that would prevent the City/Country from terminating its agreement with the Navy to use that pier.  That would certainly cut down on the large ship capacity.

[nocl]

10 hours ago, Daniel A said:

The prior bill which basically got whittled down to only applying to Key West died on the vine.  The next day, the following amendment got inserted into an omnibus transportation bill which was very popular in the legislature.  Senate bill 1194 was amended to read in part:

 

"311.25 Florida seaports; local ballot initiatives and referendums.—

(1) With respect to any port that has received or is eligible to apply for or receive state funding under this chapter, a local ballot initiative or referendum may not restrict maritime commerce in such a port, including, but not limited to, restricting such commerce based on any of the following:  (a) Vessel type, size, number, or capacity.  (b) Number, origin, nationality, embarkation, or disembarkation of passengers or crew or their entry into this state or any local jurisdiction.  (c) Source, type, loading, or unloading of cargo.  (d) Environmental or health records of a particular vessel  or vessel line."

 

It appears that the 'cherry picking' aspect of the prior bill which failed has been eliminated and the new requirements apply to any port which either already gets or could get funding from the state.  I would think that if a port doesn't take any funding from the state but would be able to apply for funding can't use a local referendum to restrict any marine traffic.  This new amendment applies state wide and the bill has passed both houses of the state legislature.

Based upon that law if I was the city I would turn around and book some fishing boats or small cargo ships to use the docks on most days.  After all the law says that they cannot restrict.  But if the pier is used by a 20 foot boat on that day it would not be available for a large ship to book it.

[DFD1]

On 4/30/2021 at 10:54 PM, cruisemom42 said:

I'll reiterate that Key West has not said NO to all cruisers, they simply want to limit the numbers per day. I find this very understandable and reasonable.

 

I have seen first-hand what it is like in cruise ports around the world where sometimes as many as 15-20k or more tourists descend on ports that really cannot handle the crowds.  It is not an ideal situation for anyone -- cruisers don't have an optimal experience of what the place is like, and the locals probably feel they have to "shelter in place" all day until the hordes depart.

 

Some places can handle huge numbers of tourists well -- Rome, for example. Or Naples, where there are so many places to go in the vicinity.  But places like Key West -- or Dubrovnik, or Santorini -- cannot. There is not much "area" for crowds to disperse. These are towns, not large cities or regions.

 

Unfortunately, I've heard a growing number of people say that they don't even want to visit these formerly charming places anymore. And that is not a good situation for anyone -- tourist OR local. Eventually such places become hollowed out caricatures of themselves, more like a Disney set than a living, breathing place (Venice comes to mind, although probably not everyone would agree...)

 

Perhaps some statistics would help put things into perspective:  In 2009, the global ocean cruise industry carried roughly 17.8 million passengers. As of 2019, this figure peaked at 29.7 million. That represents a HUGE increase of 11.9 million passengers in only a decade.

 

It seems to me that some limits need to be proposed before the industry ruins the very thing that makes people want to travel.

 

 

 

They've certainly ruined St. Thomas for many of us. It's a madhouse during the day most of the year.

[POA1]

I'm 100% for local autonomy. That's why I support the Conch Republic. Blow the bridges. Then, and only then, can we have a serious conversation.

Edited May 29, 2021 by POA1

[cruisegirl]

3 hours ago, DFD1 said:

They've certainly ruined St. Thomas for many of us. It's a madhouse during the day most of the year.

Your comment struck home to me more than any other comments. I have been to St Thomas as a cruise port and after the first time I have chosen to simply stay on the ship rather than fight crowds. The only exception was the one time we took a boat over to St. John’s.  I am torn about the situation with Key West though. We haven’t been to Key West and one of the reasons we chose a cruise this December was because it went to Key West. So it is a battle with my conscience. 

[DFD1]

7 hours ago, cruisegirl said:

Your comment struck home to me more than any other comments. I have been to St Thomas as a cruise port and after the first time I have chosen to simply stay on the ship rather than fight crowds. The only exception was the one time we took a boat over to St. John’s.  I am torn about the situation with Key West though. We haven’t been to Key West and one of the reasons we chose a cruise this December was because it went to Key West. So it is a battle with my conscience. 

Fortunately, it's not as bad in Key West because only two or three ships can dock there on a given day and there is a bit more space for passengers to spread out. St. Thomas, on the other hand, often hosts six or more ships on a given day and the downtown area is more confining.

 

You'll enjoy Key West. We've been there often and find it an interesting and attractive place.