Encouraging news about cruises hoping to return to Key West

[cruisemom42]

I'll reiterate that Key West has not said NO to all cruisers, they simply want to limit the numbers per day. I find this very understandable and reasonable.

 

I have seen first-hand what it is like in cruise ports around the world where sometimes as many as 15-20k or more tourists descend on ports that really cannot handle the crowds.  It is not an ideal situation for anyone -- cruisers don't have an optimal experience of what the place is like, and the locals probably feel they have to "shelter in place" all day until the hordes depart.

 

Some places can handle huge numbers of tourists well -- Rome, for example. Or Naples, where there are so many places to go in the vicinity.  But places like Key West -- or Dubrovnik, or Santorini -- cannot. There is not much "area" for crowds to disperse. These are towns, not large cities or regions.

 

Unfortunately, I've heard a growing number of people say that they don't even want to visit these formerly charming places anymore. And that is not a good situation for anyone -- tourist OR local. Eventually such places become hollowed out caricatures of themselves, more like a Disney set than a living, breathing place (Venice comes to mind, although probably not everyone would agree...)

 

Perhaps some statistics would help put things into perspective:  In 2009, the global ocean cruise industry carried roughly 17.8 million passengers. As of 2019, this figure peaked at 29.7 million. That represents a HUGE increase of 11.9 million passengers in only a decade.

 

It seems to me that some limits need to be proposed before the industry ruins the very thing that makes people want to travel.

 

 

 

[chengkp75]

I find it interesting that many who feel that government should get out of the cruise industry's way (the CDC), find it acceptable that the state has taken away a local referendum decision.  The governance of ports in Florida, as in nearly all of the US, is a county function, and the waters, right up to the dock are Federal jurisdiction, yet the state feels it can overstep and take that control away (yet leave control in major ports like Miami), because the major ports would complain to the state legislature, while the small ports have little voice.

[TriumphGuy]

Not sure how per-person port charges work but I would think the loss of that revenue would be substantial. And could be possibly be more detrimental to the local economy in the long term than loss of revenue to restaurants, gift shops, etc?

[chengkp75]

34 minutes ago, TriumphGuy said:

Not sure how per-person port charges work but I would think the loss of that revenue would be substantial. And could be possibly be more detrimental to the local economy in the long term than loss of revenue to restaurants, gift shops, etc?

Most port charges are used by the port authority for maintenance of the port facilities.  With limited ships, you only need limited facilities, so reduced port fees would likely not affect the local economy to a great extent.  It might end up raising the county sales tax.

[whogo]

21 hours ago, Diver2014 said:

Without tourists, Key West is just a sleepy little town that happens to have a naval air station.  They need the tourist revenue.  The economy of the keys from Key Largo to Key West is largely dependent upon tourism. The residents know that.

They don't need the cruise ship passengers. Key West could go back to being a charming small town with grocery stores, pharmacies, a few day trippers, and a number of overnight guests. The voters of Key West are willing to lose a few tee shirt shops and bars in return for a little sanity.

[Aquahound]

The attitude of the OP and those agreeing with her is part of the reason why Key West voted the way they did.  Residents are sick and tired of the self-entitled cruise ship crowd who do little more than flood lower Duval St only spending money in bars and t-shirt shops.  

 

Key West needs tourist revenue.  It's their #1 industry....by far.  But those who drive and fly into the Keys and who rent hotels & vacation rentals, and spend money in restaurants and local tours and are faaaaar more lucrative to the Keys economy than cruise ships.  

 

Ref the infrastructure.  The largest and most accommodating pier, the Mole Pier, was built by the Navy.  Pier B actually was not designed for large ships.  The harbor at Margaritaville is blocked when ships are in.  There's just enough space for small boats and the Sunset Key water taxi to get in/out under the ship's bow.  Mallory can only dock small ships.  

 

The loss of port charges will not be a huge impact.  When ships are in, the city has to pay the salaries of line handlers, detailed police officers, pier security, etc.  Take away those expenses, and the revenue isn't as good as one might think.  

 

This is just a non-scientific anecdote, but something I have observed in person many times.  Reef excursions with people vacationing in the Keys tend to be much more respectful to the reef.  It seems every time I've seen multiple careless people either standing on the reef or trying to take souvenirs, it was from the apathetic party crowd off a Carnival ship.  My observance is supported by the local reputation of cruise ship excursions.  

 

As a conch and as someone who loves cruising, I'm very disappointed in FL's attempts to overturn the voices of the citizens.  

[iancal]

We have been to Key West once on a cruise and once on a land trip when there were no cruises in town.

 

We would never go back on a cruise.   If we go again on a land trip we will check to make sure that there are no cruise ships docked.

 

We found our two experiences like day and night.   Land trip visit was far less crowded, far more enjoyable.    But...this is the same for a number of ports in our experience.

[ontheweb]

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I find it interesting that many who feel that government should get out of the cruise industry's way (the CDC), find it acceptable that the state has taken away a local referendum decision.  The governance of ports in Florida, as in nearly all of the US, is a county function, and the waters, right up to the dock are Federal jurisdiction, yet the state feels it can overstep and take that control away (yet leave control in major ports like Miami), because the major ports would complain to the state legislature, while the small ports have little voice.

I think you meant to type COUNTRY NOT COUNTY.

[Shmoo here]

1 hour ago, Aquahound said:

As a conch and as someone who loves cruising, I'm very disappointed in FL's attempts to overturn the voices of the citizens.  

I'm not a conch and I also love cruising.  I'm also disappointed that FL isn't listening to their citizens.

[idiebabe]

1 hour ago, Aquahound said:

The attitude of the OP and those agreeing with her is part of the reason why Key West voted the way they did.  Residents are sick and tired of the self-entitled cruise ship crowd who do little more than flood lower Duval St only spending money in bars and t-shirt shops.  

 

Key West needs tourist revenue.  It's their #1 industry....by far.  But those who drive and fly into the Keys and who rent hotels & vacation rentals, and spend money in restaurants and local tours and are faaaaar more lucrative to the Keys economy than cruise ships.  

 

 

Why do you say that Cruise Ship passengers don't book Tours?  One of my Itineraries booked has Key West on it and they're offering 18 Tours.  Many Ship Passengers do have lunch and spend money in the local Restaurants, they also have drinks and buy Souvenirs but the Ship Passengers also book Excursions.  Hemingway House is also a big draw for those just walking around Key West or who take the HOHO Bus or Trolley.

 

How are Cruise Ship Passengers acting "self-entitled"?  It's a Port for them to stop  in just like any Port.  Do all the "Locals" in other Ports view the Cruise Ships that way?  

 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by idiebabe

[richwmn]

4 minutes ago, idiebabe said:

How are Cruise Ship Passengers acting "self-entitled"?  It's a Port for them to stop  in just like any Port.  Do all the "Locals" in other Ports view the Cruise Ships that way?  

 

Quite a few ports has at least a portion of the population that would prefer that cruise ships don't stop. Charleston, SC comes to mind.

[idiebabe]

9 minutes ago, richwmn said:

Quite a few ports has at least a portion of the population that would prefer that cruise ships don't stop. Charleston, SC comes to mind.

Yes, there is a "Historical Group" who were fighting the Ships from being here but the Businesses want them and so do many of the Residents.  I've been to Key West off a Ship numerous times and never had the feeling of "you're not welcome here" but maybe that was because those we came in contact with were the Businesses, Tour Ops, etc. who were making money off of us.   As with any Tourist Town the Residents take the bad with the good!  We live in one and it's very nice when Labor Day comes and the numbers coming in decrease but we also appreciate what they bring to our Economy and to our  Businesses and it's Employees.  As a Local we know what roads to avoid, what Restaurants to avoid in "peak-Seasons", etc.  We know that Tourists and the possibility of Hurricanes are part of living here.

[mcrcruiser]

We loved Key West  .If it were not for a cruise ship we would never have gotten to see the Truman White house in Key West   .Wish my health was better ,at the time as I also wanted to see the Hemingway  home 

[generichandle]

My employer [master] asked me to make certain to see the famed 'six-toed cats' of Hemingway. I told her it was not that special but she said "Meow!" quite explicitly. 

[mcrcruiser]

7 minutes ago, generichandle said:

My employer [master] asked me to make certain to see the famed 'six-toed cats' of Hemingway. I told her it was not that special but she said "Meow!" quite explicitly. 

LOL

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

I think you meant to type COUNTRY NOT COUNTY.

Nope, port authorities are typically governed by the county, via a board of supervisors.

[Aquahound]

23 hours ago, idiebabe said:

 

How are Cruise Ship Passengers acting "self-entitled"?  It's a Port for them to stop  in just like any Port.  Do all the "Locals" in other Ports view the Cruise Ships that way?  

 

 

It truly is hard to explain on these boards.  You almost have to live in a tourist town that is frequented by cruise ships...sometimes 3+ cruise ships a day...to understand the difference between overnight tourists and cruise ship tourists.  The attitude of "you can't survive without my tourist dollar" seems so much more prevalent among cruisers than it does vacation rentals.  

 

To be fair, it's not only cruises.  There are certain land vacation events that Keys residents would vote out in a heartbeat as well because of the negative impact.  The lobster mini season is one of them.  

 

[idiebabe]

32 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

It truly is hard to explain on these boards.  You almost have to live in a tourist town that is frequented by cruise ships...sometimes 3+ cruise ships a day...to understand the difference between overnight tourists and cruise ship tourists.  The attitude of "you can't survive without my tourist dollar" seems so much more prevalent among cruisers than it does vacation rentals.  

 

To be fair, it's not only cruises.  There are certain land vacation events that Keys residents would vote out in a heartbeat as well because of the negative impact.  The lobster mini season is one of them.  

 

The nice thing with the Cruise Ships they leave by 5:00 pm as opposed to Land Vacationers.  It never entered my mind whether I visit a place on a Cruise Ship or during a Land Vacay to have the attitude of "you can't survive without my tourist dollars".  That kind of thinking is not a blip  on my Radar.   I don't know anyone who has that attitude and never experienced it directly in the Tourist Town I live in.   Is that how you feel when you visit Ports or any Tourist destination?  

 

Also, many of the Cruise Ship passengers who have never been there before visiting it on a Ship will go back and do a Land Vacay because they liked it so much.

 

Out of the 70% who voted against the Ships in Key West how many actually have lived there before the Ships started going in 50 years ago?  For those who moved to Key West knowing the Ships go into their Town and now are complaining it reminds me of someone who complains about moving next to an existing Farm and wanting the Farm to get rid of the Horses and Cows because of the smell of the Horse Manure.  

Edited May 2, 2021 by idiebabe

[chengkp75]

Since Key West is not banning cruise ships altogether, your analogy would be closer to people who moved next to a family farm, and then complained when Frank Purdue bought the place and installed thousands of chickens.

[iancal]

We spent five days in Dubrovnik.  When cruise ships were docked in the daytime it was a disaster.   Things started to improve by 4PM.   By 6PM or 7PM Dubrovnik was an entirely different city and a far more enjoyable city.   On two of the busiest cruise days during our stay we rented a car and left town for the day.

 

We found the same for Santorini and a few other ports where we have spent time during or land travels.  On our last pre covid Europe trip we bailed on Corfu town when there were multiple ships in port..... for the very same reason.  Crowds.

Edited May 2, 2021 by iancal

[Aquahound]

19 minutes ago, idiebabe said:

The nice thing with the Cruise Ships they leave by 5:00 pm as opposed to Land Vacationers.  It never entered my mind whether I visit a place on a Cruise Ship or during a Land Vacay to have the attitude of "you can't survive without my tourist dollars".  That kind of thinking is not a blip  on my Radar.   I don't know anyone who has that attitude and never experienced it directly in the Tourist Town I live in.   Is that how you feel when you visit Ports or any Tourist destination?  

 

Also, many of the Cruise Ship passengers who have never been there before visiting it on a Ship will go back and do a Land Vacay because they liked it so much.

 

Out of the 70% who voted against the Ships in Key West how many actually have lived there since before the Ships started going in 50 years ago?  For those who moved to Key West knowing the Ships go into their Town and now are complaining it reminds me of someone who complains about moving next to an existing Farm and wanting the Farm to get rid of the Horses and Cows because of the smell of the Horse Manure.  

 

Your simile is not valid.  It would compare if the horses and cows have doubled and tripled in size and the smell of manure has increased exponentially.  Oh, and that the farm took over neighboring military property in order to increase their livestock and manure smell.  Oh, and that the city commission has had a history of trying to bring in even larger horses and cows in order to benefit the farm they happen to own.  That would be a more accurate metaphor to what is happening in KW.  Everyone has their tolerance and at some point, that bubble bursts.  

 

Regarding not knowing anyone who thinks KW needs the cruise ship tourist dollars, I can only assume you have not been reading the various threads on this topic since the news broke in November.  There's been plenty of that sentiment.  

 

But the bottom line is, that's how the Conchs feel.  That's fact.  No opinion from an outsider is going to change the fact that Key Westers are jaded by the whole cruise ship topic.  

Edited May 2, 2021 by Aquahound

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

It truly is hard to explain on these boards.  You almost have to live in a tourist town that is frequented by cruise ships...sometimes 3+ cruise ships a day...to understand the difference between overnight tourists and cruise ship tourists.  The attitude of "you can't survive without my tourist dollar" seems so much more prevalent among cruisers than it does vacation rentals.  

 

To be fair, it's not only cruises.  There are certain land vacation events that Keys residents would vote out in a heartbeat as well because of the negative impact.  The lobster mini season is one of them.  

 

I live in what used to be a lively tourist area, at least in the summer. And then in 1969, the Woodstock festival happened. And on a whole the locals were appalled. And even when the area pretty much died as a tourist area, they did everything they could to stop people from coming to the one thing that still attracted people going as far as barbed wire and chicken ***** and of course laws. 

 

This did change years and years later when the county billionaire (he invented cable television) bought the land where the festival had been held and made it a concert venue and also built a museum. (In 2019, the museum had an exhibit about the present in addition to its permanent exhibit about the festival itself and the 60s in general. We were at an early presentation of it, and I told the curator that there was a fundamental flaw. They made it seem as if there was a seamless transition from 1969 to the present without having anything about all the negative activity in between. He agreed with me and said they should someday have such an exhibit.)

[Cruise Suzy]

Updating the Key West situation. Here's what the FL legislature passed. Bolding is mine.

 

Cruise ship regulation

As the legislative session was winding down, lawmakers approved a measure that would have the effect of striking down a series of referendums passed last year in Key West that restrict the size of cruise ships entering that port.

Voters in Key West in November approved limiting the size of ships and the number of passengers who can visit the city each day. 

The Florida Legislature approved the measure as part of a larger transportation bill.

[Cruise Suzy]

I am NOT taking a side in this debate. Just updating the situation and this thread was the first I found.

[johnnyswitzerland]

Thank you for the update.  What happens next?  Is it possible for Key West to appeal this somehow?