Well, now this is interesting.....Looks like Florida may have gotten it's way.

[leerathje]

https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/news/2021/06/16/court-rules-on-cruise-industry-restrictions

 

L.

 

[Hlitner]

About time somebody put the CDC in its place.  That agency has continued its wishy washy dictates (mostly NOT backed by any real science) much of which still makes little sense.  Consider a few COVID related decisions which make no sense when considering the CDC's own posted info on COVID.  There is no COVID related reason for limitations on buffets, no COVID related reason for all the insistence on cleaning, etc.  That being said there are some good reasons for these policies but it is not COVID.

 

Hank

[Mary229]

An earlier judge squashed their eviction moratorium.   It takes a while for justice.   The CDC clearly overstepped their authority.   Not that governments can’t make rules but it was not in the CDC’s power.  Lest we forget the CDC is only a quasi governmental agency receiving much funding from private enterprises 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Mary229

[leerathje]

The unfortunate thing is that I am now cancelling my cruise from Fort Lauderdale, as I'm not sailing on ship that is not fully (or 95%) vaccinated. 

 

L.

 

[Mary229]

3 minutes ago, leerathje said:

The unfortunate thing is that I am now cancelling my cruise from Fort Lauderdale, as I'm not sailing on ship that is not fully (or 95%) vaccinated. 

 

L.

 

First this is a Federal judge, not a state judge.  Federal.  This, if upheld, will be for the entire country.   Next, don’t be hasty, the cruise lines can have a vaccinated passenger policy, that is their right. 

[wdw1972]

I would prefer to have a ship where everyone's vaccinated, and life is normal like it was pre-covid.  However, if anyone regardless of status can book, then so be it - I'm still going.  I'm not worried about catching it or getting sick if I did catch it.  However, I'd just hope that if the unvaccinated pass it around onboard they get put off the ship at the nearest port, and the cruise goes on for the rest of us.  I'm long past the point of wanting to be inconvenienced to keep the anti-vax people safe.  A person who truly can't get it for medical reasons will most likely either stay home or stay masked up to protect themselves as much as possible.  I don't want to be wearing masks or enduring other restrictions because the ship can't ensure everyone is vaccinated - let the chips fall where they may.  

 

Sue/WDW1972

[Heartgrove]

So does that mean with the Florida winning a temporary injunction against the CSO, will the Alaska cruises now be cancelled? Remember they were tied together. 

[kelleherdl]

The judge ruled on the primary issue, the ‘statutory authority to regulate.’ As I said a month ago the CDC was playing with fire on this lawsuit.  They got the worst possible outcome.  They will now need legislation.  I really thought the judge would rule for Florida and grant the injunction based on procedure.  He went all the way and slammed HHS/CDC.

[Hlitner]

1 minute ago, Heartgrove said:

So does that mean with the Florida winning a temporary injunction against the CSO, will the Alaska cruises now be cancelled? Remember they were tied together. 

The judge was pretty crafty by writing that the CSO could be seen as guidelines or a recommendation (not his exact words).  I suspect that was to leave enough wiggle room to handle the AK issue.

 

Hank

[Mary229]

2 minutes ago, Heartgrove said:

So does that mean with the Florida winning a temporary injunction against the CSO, will the Alaska cruises now be cancelled? Remember they were tied together. 

I never understood that argument.   The CSO applies to non-vaccinated cruises and the Alaska cruises, by choice, are vaccinated cruises.  Anyway if there is no CSO, the lines simply go back to business as usual.  I think they would be wise to run vaccinated cruises only to prevent outbreaks and the media that would come with that 

[Heartgrove]

3 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

The judge was pretty crafty by writing that the CSO could be seen as guidelines or a recommendation (not his exact words).  I suspect that was to leave enough wiggle room to handle the AK issue.

 

Hank

 

Merryday's ruling says the injunction is stayed until 12:01 a.m. ET July 18, "at which time the conditional sailing order and the measures promulgated under the conditional sailing order will persist as only a non-binding 'consideration,' 'recommendation' or 'guideline.'

 

There is always the CDC appeal.

[KirkNC]

I wouldn’t break out champagne yet, this is round one.  I am sure an appeals court will be involved before July 18th.  It will also be interesting to see what the industry does as I believe the vast majority of cruise passengers want vaccinated passengers on a cruise.

Edited June 18, 2021 by KirkNC

[Heartgrove]

2 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I never understood that argument.   The CSO applies to non-vaccinated cruises and the Alaska cruises, by choice, are vaccinated cruises.  Anyway if there is no CSO, the lines simply go back to business as usual.  I think they would be wise to run vaccinated cruises only to prevent outbreaks and the media that would come with that 

 

Not according to how the Alaska law was written.

[Mary229]

1 minute ago, Heartgrove said:

 

Not according to how the Alaska law was written.

I am not aware of the details of that law, I suppose. 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Mary229

[rkacruiser]

4 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

 I think they would be wise to run vaccinated cruises only to prevent outbreaks and the media that would come with that 

 

I agree.  For me to consider making a deposit on a cruise, 100% vaccinations required of crew and guests must be enforced at this time.  

[POA1]

The ruling is brutal if you read the whole thing. When the CDC was okay with vaccines being optional, but recommended in Federal Buildings, it was an obvious omen.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-administraton-federal-workers-vaccines/2021/06/09/19dea94c-c947-11eb-afd0-9726f7ec0ba6_story.html

[fatcat04]

16 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

An earlier judge squashed their eviction moratorium.   It takes a while for justice.   The CDC clearly overstepped their authority.   Not that governments can’t make rules but it was not in the CDC’s power.  Lest we forget the CDC is only a quasi governmental agency receiving much funding from private enterprises 

The judge was very specific in wanting proof that these policy decisions concerning the CSO are being made in light of proven scientific knowledge, studies, and data. That he was not satisfied by whatever the CDC handed him is what I find most interesting. 

[kelleherdl]

Just now, KirkNC said:

I would break out champagne yet, this is round one.  I am sure an appeals court will be involved before July 18th.  It will also be interesting to see what the industry does as I believe the vast majority of cruise passengers want vaccinated passengers on a cruise.

Oh, personally I don’t think there will be an immediate impact either.  The stay was a judicious move not to upset the apple cart that is just now getting past the inertia of the complete cessation of cruises.  The summer and fall startups will probably progress at the cruise lines pace.  Which for all concerned is the best course.

 

Dennis

[KirkNC]

44 minutes ago, leerathje said:

The unfortunate thing is that I am now cancelling my cruise from Fort Lauderdale, as I'm not sailing on ship that is not fully (or 95%) vaccinated. 

 

L.

 

I hear you, makes me want to do the same until ALL the decisions are finalized.  I think this could potentially throw a real monkey wrench in the restart.  After months of waiting, the industry is finally moving forward.  So do they now abandon all the CDC requirements?  I know the frothy cruisers on CC will go come hell or high water but they are a minuscule number in the overall scheme of things.

Edited June 18, 2021 by KirkNC

[fatcat04]

http://myfloridalegal.com/webfiles.nsf/WF/SSWN-C44RE6/$file/Order+on+PI.pdf

 

The ruling. 

[Mary229]

I think people are confusing two issues. 1. Is the suit against the CSO and the other is 2. Florida’s vaccination passport law.   Totally separate issues. I suspect the Florida vaccination passport ban will also be struck down.  Businesses have a right to make reasonable rules for entry

[KirkNC]

5 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I think people are confusing two issues. 1. Is the suit against the CSO and the other is 2. Florida’s vaccination passport law.   Totally separate issues. I suspect the Florida vaccination passport ban will also be struck down.  Businesses have a right to make reasonable rules for entry

Remember its the CDC rule about 95% vaccinations or test cruises.  This is what is driving the vaccination requirements.  I assume now those are optional.

[NavArch64]

I am not a lawyer .... but .... it appears to me that Alaska will not be affected. The injunction against the CDC CSO applies only to Florida. In any event, the CDC CSO stays in effect as a "recommendation" or "guideline".

[mightycruisequeen]

10 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

  I know the frothy cruisers on CC will go come hell or high water but they are a minuscule number in the overall scheme of things.

Actually, most of the people I've met while cruising have never even heard of Cruise Critic, so I'm thinking the opinions expressed on these boards are not necessarily a fair representation of cruisers in general.

[Mary229]

3 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

Remember its the CDC rule about 95% vaccinations or test cruises.  This is what is driving the vaccination requirements.  I assume now those are optional.

The latest polls show 80% of cruisers prefer vaccinated cruises.   I think for the lines that sell to an older audience their clientele will demand the vaccination as will countries we will be visiting.  I remember a time when you could not cruise to Peru without showing your yellow fever vaccination 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Mary229