Italy bans almost all cruise ships in Venice

[Huntingdon1701]

I'm sad about this, as sailing in and out was an amazing experience, but it does make sense given how Venice is built. I'm staying a couple of nights in Venice in October, and then going onto a cruise from another port.

[MNgardens]

@cruise47 Good idea to get a list of which ships make the list size wise of under 25,000 tonnes and 590 feet. The Italian government also has a fuel emissions criteria which may be harder to ascertain. IIFC it is .1% sulfer but I am working off of memory.

 

I found a website that compares the sizes and lengths of the various cruises ships.

https://www.cruisemapper.com/wiki/753-cruise-ship-sizes-comparison-dimensions-length-weight-draft

 

It is by no means a perfect list. For example it doesn't have the stretched length of the motor Windstar ships, but the new size is till with in bounds.

 

edited to add- The Windsurf is too long if the ships are measured at their absolute longest which makes sense to me. The ship does make the length requirement if measured at the waterline.

 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by MNgardens

[Vineyard View]

23 hours ago, excitedofharpenden said:

I was having a look at the Onward cruises, particularly the Adriatic one and the following to Greece. Dubrovnik may not be too bad. It looks like Onward will tender (which I prefer) and only one other ship in that's not too big. And the ship stays until 10pm. Kotor however looks horrid, even if Onward docks. There's another port that's been totally spoilt IMO. Definitely would book a tour out that day with a good local guide to beat the crowds if poss. 

 

Phil 

We are booked sailing Onward Intensive Croatia followed by Intensive Greece. It looks like Dubrovnik is the scheduled port for the evening off ship. I am happy to hear it isn’t over booked as it was the first time we visited. I am disappointed to hear that Kotor is though. We have never been and hear that it is beautiful. 

I appreciate the encouragement to stay steady with our booking in spite of Venice, as I sincerely have always wanted to explore the Dalmatian Coast. Between these two itineraries we will really have the opportunity to experience a lot. 

[MNgardens]

A couple of years ago Dubrovnik capped the number ships allowed per day (2) and the total number of cruise passengers per day (5,000.)

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/dubrovnik-cruise-ship-cap-croatia-overtourism-two-dock-a8565166.html

 

I think part of Kotor's popularity may stem from it being a non EU stop. The cruises that have a non Eu stop do not have to charge VAT for the entire cruise in the gift shop etc. So in addition to being a very pretty area, there is a savings for the passenger and no doubt the ship. This is entirely a fact free opinion as I haven't looked into this in any depth.

 

Here are some beach ideas for Kotor: https://www.roadiscalling.com/montenegro-beaches/

[excitedofharpenden]

3 hours ago, Vineyard View said:

We are booked sailing Onward Intensive Croatia followed by Intensive Greece. It looks like Dubrovnik is the scheduled port for the evening off ship. I am happy to hear it isn’t over booked as it was the first time we visited. I am disappointed to hear that Kotor is though. We have never been and hear that it is beautiful. 

I appreciate the encouragement to stay steady with our booking in spite of Venice, as I sincerely have always wanted to explore the Dalmatian Coast. Between these two itineraries we will really have the opportunity to experience a lot. 

I've been to Kotor probably half a dozen times. The first time was probably ten years ago.  Boy has it changed. And the smiles on the faces of the locals!  💲💲💲

 

The sailing in and out never gets boring, but I would definitely recommend a local guide who will meet you off the ship. There will be MANY on the dock touting for your business, but get it booked. We used a company recommended by Rick Steves. Excellent. Went out to Budva and beyond. Saw President Tito's island and the amazing story of former Yugoslavia. I am very tempted with a back to back. 

 

Phil 

Edited July 16, 2021 by excitedofharpenden

[Vineyard View]

Thank you Phil. I appreciate your feedback. 
 

If this were your first time to Kotor would you completely skip the old city due to cruise traffic? 
 

Do you remember the name of the tour company that you used?  I have glanced at CC ports of call section and know that I need to spend more time with it. 

[excitedofharpenden]

8 hours ago, Vineyard View said:

Thank you Phil. I appreciate your feedback. 
 

If this were your first time to Kotor would you completely skip the old city due to cruise traffic? 
 

Do you remember the name of the tour company that you used?  I have glanced at CC ports of call section and know that I need to spend more time with it. 

Sorry, I can't remember the name. I know that Rick Steves did a tour wth them, wrote it in his book and then they were inundated. 

 

I wouldn't skip the old town, but plan to do it a little later in the day. The other ships leave by 3pm and you are there until 10. It's a nice place to walk around when it's not crowded with people. It's also good that Onward is small enough and should be docked in town. The other ships will be anchored in the bay 

 

Phil 

[Mrs Miggins]

On Google Maps Street View you can see the P & O Oceana docked right in the centre of town in Kotor  - as we did on Azamara.

[Bloodaxe]

11 minutes ago, Mrs Miggins said:

On Google Maps Street View you can see the P & O Oceana docked right in the centre of town in Kotor  - as we did on Azamara.

Some larger ships do dock in Kotor, we have had to tender on Azamara when the dock was occupied by larger ships 

[Vineyard View]

7 hours ago, excitedofharpenden said:

Sorry, I can't remember the name. I know that Rick Steves did a tour wth them, wrote it in his book and then they were inundated. 

 

I wouldn't skip the old town, but plan to do it a little later in the day. The other ships leave by 3pm and you are there until 10. It's a nice place to walk around when it's not crowded with people. It's also good that Onward is small enough and should be docked in town. The other ships will be anchored in the bay 

 

Phil 

Thank you. I did see that Regal Princess leaves at 3:00 so that gives us a nice amount of time to explore the town. I will start researching where to go and who to connect with for a private. I appreciate the heads up. I spent time yesterday charting all the ports and who our “company” will be. 
 

I also read threads on some other lines regarding the thoughts around what will happen with these new changes in Venice. There is a lot of speculation as to how/whether Marghera will really work out as quickly as is needed for cruise lines for a number of reasons. Particularly this year, but also next. Ravenna and Trieste is being bantered about but that would be quite a jaunt when flying into Venice. 
 

[MNgardens]

Kotor- We had used Tours by Milos but his website and facebook page seem to be inactive. He may have had to switch to something else for the pandemic.

 

Venice - I am guessing all the cruise lines are scrambling now. It will take a while for it all to get negotiated.

[ECCruise]

1 hour ago, Vineyard View said:

Ravenna and Trieste is being bantered about but that would be quite a jaunt when flying into Venice. 
 

Royal is using Ravenna and offer a free shuttle from Marco Polo to the pier.  They saw the writing on the wall and shifted all sailings from Venice to Ravenna before the announcement.  But yes, it is a 2-2 1/2 hour jaunt to Ravenna. 

Edited July 18, 2021 by ECCruise

[Vineyard View]

5 hours ago, ECCruise said:

Royal is using Ravenna and offer a free shuttle from Marco Polo to the pier.  They saw the writing on the wall and shifted all sailings from Venice to Ravenna before the announcement.  But yes, it is a 2-2 1/2 hour jaunt to Ravenna. 

Wow. A 2 1/2 hour jaunt each way really does dissipate the Venice experience. We plan on going in 2-3 days early, but not all can do that. We were also looking forward to additional time during the Venice turn around. 
We have visited Ravenna. It is lovely. Not several days of lovely IMHO. 
Trieste looks beautiful as well, and in looking at transportation  options it’s not too awful by car, but time gets up there on the trains to almost 2 hrs. 
I don’t really see any other options outside of Marghera, which isn’t equipped for the cruise lines at this time. 
The cruise lines are likely really scrambling right now. 

[Vineyard View]

MNgardens, thank you for the tour tip. I have a feeling that a lot of previous tour guides had to reinvent themselves.  I don’t have a feel for how that will play out as cruises start up again. While I generally like to set up tours quite a ways in advance, it may not be easy to do at this time. 

[excitedofharpenden]

I picked this off the news today and it shows that UNESCO don't mess around and I think good for them. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-57879475

 

It's interesting that Kotor, another World Heritage Site has also come under scrutiny from UNESCO with the rapid expansion of the place and talk of additional docks for ships to remove the need for them to anchor in the bay. It's a conundrum as it will deal with safety issues of ships at anchor in a narrow bay and the ecological effects in the water, but Kotor will be further spoiled with crowds as Dubrovnik has been. 

 

Phil 

[ECCruise]

1 hour ago, excitedofharpenden said:

I picked this off the news today and it shows that UNESCO don't mess around and I think good for them. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-57879475

 

It's interesting that Kotor, another World Heritage Site has also come under scrutiny from UNESCO with the rapid expansion of the place and talk of additional docks for ships to remove the need for them to anchor in the bay. It's a conundrum as it will deal with safety issues of ships at anchor in a narrow bay and the ecological effects in the water, but Kotor will be further spoiled with crowds as Dubrovnik has been. 

 

Phil 

The difference between the experience in Dubrovnik the first time we visited (2001) and the last time we visited (2019) was night and day.  I would hate to see the same thing happen in Kotor.

[excitedofharpenden]

16 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

The difference between the experience in Dubrovnik the first time we visited (2001) and the last time we visited (2019) was night and day.  I would hate to see the same thing happen in Kotor.

Same here. Sadly it's already happening in Kotor. There are now often two large ships anchored in the bay and having been there then it's very crowded in town. I think I'm right in saying there are three anchor points. If you happen to be at the far end one it's a 20 minute tender ride. Not ideal. Especially when it's hot. 

 

Definitely take a tour out and come back when it's quieter. 

 

Phil 

[Vineyard View]

I really hope that Kotor pays attention to these types of changes that UNESCO can and will do. 
 

I am grateful that Dubrovnik has done so. Our previous visit was one that had way too many ships in port. 
 

Researching 1/2 day tour options sounds like the wise thing in Kotor. With the Regal in port, total pax is 5200. Once she leaves it will just be Onward and Viking. 

[donaldsc]

On 7/16/2021 at 8:14 AM, MNgardens said:

@cruise47 Good idea to get a list of which ships make the list size wise of under 25,000 tonnes and 590 feet. The Italian government also has a fuel emissions criteria which may be harder to ascertain. IIFC it is .1% sulfer but I am working off of memory.

 

I found a website that compares the sizes and lengths of the various cruises ships.

https://www.cruisemapper.com/wiki/753-cruise-ship-sizes-comparison-dimensions-length-weight-draft

 

It is by no means a perfect list. For example it doesn't have the stretched length of the motor Windstar ships, but the new size is till with in bounds.

 

edited to add- The Windsurf is too long if the ships are measured at their absolute longest which makes sense to me. The ship does make the length requirement if measured at the waterline.

 

 

 

 

I took your list and converted it to a spreadsheet file so that people can play with the list.  Might be useful to people.   Does anyone know how I can attach an Excel file to a message.  I can link it to the file on my computer but that will not help anyone.

 

DON

 

Edited July 21, 2021 by donaldsc

[donaldsc]

21 minutes ago, donaldsc said:

 

I took your list and converted it to a spreadsheet file so that people can play with the list.  Might be useful to people.   Does anyone know how I can attach an Excel file to a message.  I can link it to the file on my computer but that will not help anyone.

 

DON

 

 

An add on.  There are a total 447 ships in the original list.  Of them, only 185 are less than 590 feet in length.   This is a full list of the ships that are less than 590 ft long although for some reason the first one on the list is wrong.  Can't figure out why my Excel sort messed that one up.  The list is long but those are the ships that will be welcome in Vernice.  Many of them are expedition ships.  I have done a South Georgia cruise on the Ocean Adventurer.  She is a neat ship.

 

DON

 

Name		Year		Gross Tonnage		Draft		Length		Width
AIDAaura		2003		42289		24		663		92
American Constellation		2017						269		56
American Constitution		2018				7		269		56
American Glory		2002		1267		10		174		39
American Harmony		2019						269		59
American Pride		2012		2700		10		295		46
American Song		2018						269		59
American Spirit		2004		1955				220		43
American Star		2007		1973				217		43
Queen of the Mississippi		2015		3800		7		295		52
Queen of the West		1995		2100				233		49
American Duchess		2017		3560		13		341		98
American Empress		2003		5975				361		59
American Queen		1995		3707		20		417		89
Celebrity Flora		2019		5739		26		331		56
Celebrity Xpedition		2001		2842		10		289		46
Celebrity Xperience		2002		1610		5		210		43
Celebrity Xploration		2007		319		19		98		36
Celestyal Crystal		1980		25611		18		518		82
Celestyal Nefeli		1992		19093		23		538		75
Louis Aura		1968		15781		16		525		72
L'Austral		2011		10944		10		466		59
Le Bellot		2020		9900		16		430		59
Le Boreal		2010		10944				466		59
Le Bougainville		2019		9900				430		59
Le Champlain		2018		9900		10		430		59
Le Dumont dUrville		2019		9900				430		59
Le Laperouse		2018		9900		16		430		59
Le Lyrial		2015		10700		13		466		59
Le Ponant		1991		1189		16		289		36
Le Soleal		2013		10992		10		466		59
Le Surville		2020		10000		10		417		59
Ponant Icebreaker		2021		30000		26		492
Astor		1987		20704		25		577		72
Astoria		1948		16144		26		525		69
Marco Polo		1965		22080				577		75
Crystal Bach		2017		5000				443		39
Crystal Debussy		2018		5000		10		443		39
Crystal Esprit		1991		3341				279		46
Crystal Mahler		2017		5000				443		39
Crystal Mozart		1987		3100				394		75
Crystal Ravel		2018		5000		26		443		39
MV Clio		1998		3504		13		328		46
MV Corinthian		1990		4077				289		49
Hanseatic Inspiration		2019		15540				453		72
Hanseatic Nature		2019		15540		10		453		72
Hanseatic Spirit		2021		15540		16		453		72
MS Bremen		1990		6752		21		364		56
MS Finnmarken		2002		15690		17		456		69
MS Fram		2007		11647				371		66
MS Fridtjof Nansen		2020				15		459		79
MS Kong Harald		1993		11204		15		397		62
MS Lofoten		1964		2621		17		285		43
MS Midnatsol		2003		16151		15		446		69
MS Nordkapp		1996		11386		15		404		62
MS Nordlys		1994		11204		15		397		62
MS Nordnorge		1997		11384		15		404		62
MS Nordstjernen		1956		2191		15		285		41
MS Polarlys		1996		11341		15		404		62
MS Richard With		1993		11205				397		62
MS Roald Amundsen		2019				17		459		79
MS Spitsbergen		2009		7025		17		322		59
MS Trollfjord		2002		16140		15		443		69
MS Vesteralen		1983		6261		36		354		52
50 Let Pobedy icebreaker		2007		23440		20		495		98
Akademik Ioffe icebreaker		1989		6450		28		384		59
Murmansk icebreaker		2015		11720		28		394		92
Novorossiysk icebreaker		2016		11720		36		394		92
Rossiya icebreaker		1985		20680		23		492		98
RRS Discovery		2013		5952				328		59
RRS Sir David Attenborough icebreaker		2019		1500		30		423		79
Sankt Peterburg icebreaker		2009		11720		39		394		92
Sibir icebreaker		2019		33540		10		568		112
Ural icebreaker		2020		33540				568		112
Viktor Chernomyrdin icebreaker		2018		16000		28		482		95
Vladivostok icebreaker		2015		11720		26		394		92
Xue Long icebreaker		1993		15352		36		548		75
Yamal icebreaker		1992		20646				492		98
Yevgeny Primakov icebreaker		2018		8626		20		341		69
National Geographic Endeavour		1966		3132		11		292		46
National Geographic Endeavour II		2005		2716		10		240		43
National Geographic Explorer		1982		6471		6		367		52
National Geographic Islander		1995		1021		13		161		43
National Geographic Orion		2003		3984		10		335		46
National Geographic Quest		2017		2906		1		240		46
National Geographic Sea Bird		1982		630		9		164		30
National Geographic Sea Lion		1982		630		10		164		30
National Geographic Venture		2018		2906		25		240		46
NYV Caroline		2020				20		571
MS Deutschland		1998		22496		26		574		72
Island Sky		1992		4200		30		299		49
Kapitan Khlebnikov icebreaker		1981		12288		14		404		89
MV Sea Spirit		1991		4200		15		299		49
Ocean Adventurer		1975		4376		19		331		52
Ocean Atlantic		1986		12798		16		459		69
Ocean Diamond		1974		8282		19		407		52
Ocean Endeavour		1982		12907		12		449		69
Ocean Nova		1992		2183		10		240		36
World Explorer		2019		9300		24		413		62
Seven Seas Navigator		1999		28803		10		558		79
MS Victory I		2001		4954		13		285		49
MS Victory II		2004		4954		29		299		49
MS Knyazhna Anastasia		1989		5500				423		56
MS Konstantin Fedin		1980		5400				410		56
MS Konstantin Korotkov		1976		5400		10		410		56
MS Konstantin Simonov		1984		5500				423		56
MS Kronstadt		1979		5400				410		56
MS Lebedinoye Ozero		1986		5500		10		423		56
MS Lenin		1987		5500				423		56
MS Leonid Krasin		1986		5500		10		423		56
MS Leonid Sobolev		1985		5500				423		56
MS Lev Tolstoy		1979		5400				381		56
MS Lunnaya Sonata		1988		5500				423		56
MS Maxim Gorky		1969						361		49
MS Maxim Litvinov		1991		5500				423		56
MS Mikhail Frunze		1980		6300				446		56
MS Sergey Kuchkin		1979		6300				446		56
MS Taras Shevchenko		1991		5500				423		56
MS Ukraina		1979				10		381		56
MS Valerian Kuybyshev		1976		6300				446		56
MS Vasily Surikov		1975						361		48
MS Vissarion Belinsky		1980		5400		10		410		56
MS Volga		1970		2125				348		52
MS Volga Dream		1959		1500		10		315		49
MS Yuri Andropov		1986		5500		20		423		56
Saga Pearl II		1981		18627		28		538		72
Scenic Eclipse		2019		16500		10		545		72
Scenic Eclipse 2		2020		16500				545		72
MS Esprit		2010				22		361		39
SeaDream I		1984		4333		13		354		46
SeaDream II		1985		4333		16		354		46
Silver Cloud		1994		16927		10		509		69
Silver Discoverer		1989		5218		13		335		49
Silver Explorer		1989		6130		13		354		49
Silver Galapagos		1990		4077		10		289		49
Silver Wind		1995		17235		23		509		69
Aegean Paradise		1990		23287		19		571		79
Aranui 3		2002		7325		17		387		59
Aranui 5		2015		7500		42. 72		413		69
Caledonian Sky		1991		4200		8		295		46
Chichagof Dream		1984		1471		23		171		36
Coral Adventurer		2019		5536		10		308		56
Funchal		1961		9563		14		502		62
Galapagos Legend		1963		2890		20		302		49
Golden Iris		1977		16852		20		541		75
Greg Mortimer		2019		7400		10		341		59
Hebridean Princess		1964		2112		14		233		46
Hebridean Sky		1991		4200		20		295		49
Knyaz Vladimir		1971		9159		20		466		72
Leisure World		1969		15653		26		528		72
Lisboa		1955		16531		16		532		69
MS Berlin		1980		10550		22		456		59
MS Birka Stockholm		2004		34924		20		581		89
MS Delphin		1975		16214		16		515		72
MS Expedition		1972		6334		17		344		62
MS Hamburg		1997		15067		13		472		72
MS Panorama II</ td>		2004		498		23		164		36
mv Aegean Odyssey		1973		12094		23		459		66
MV Hondius		2019		6300		10		354		59
MV Magellan Explorer		2019		4900		20		299		52
mv Minerva		1996		12900		11		436		66
MV Stella Australis		2010		4508				292		46
MV Ventus Australis		2018		4508		26		292		46
Ocean Majesty		1966		10417		23		443		49
Ocean Victory		2021		7400		15		341		59
Orient Queen		1989		7478		23		397		56
Oriental Dragon		1972		18455		38		564		79
Paul Gauguin		1997		19170		11		502		69
Pearl Mist		2014		5109		16		335		56
Porto		1965		5888		16		384		52
RCGS Resolute		1991		8378		18		400		56
Royal Clipper		2000		4425		16		436		52
Sea Cloud		1931		2532				315		49
Sea Cloud II		2000		3849		11		348		52
Sea Endurance		1992		1268		26		164		36
Spirit of Enderby		1984		1750		15		236		43
Star Clipper		1992		2298		18		364		49
Star Flyer		1991		2298		19		364		49
Vidanta Alegria		1990		15271		20		502		69
Star Pisces		1990		40053		23		577		95
Viking River Cruises lonships		2015		5000		21		443		95
Star Breeze		1989		9975		18		440		62
Star Legend		1992		9961		18		443		69
Star Pride		1988		9975		13		436		69
Wind Spirit		1988		5307		13		440		52
Wind Star		1986		5397		16		440		52

[Jplanetx]

On 7/18/2021 at 4:40 PM, ECCruise said:

offer a free shuttle from Marco Polo to the pier. 

 

Just found out that the shuttle is not something they are doing anymore.

 

RCCL “we wont be offering complimentary transfers for your sailing departing from Ravenna in 2022, since this has been the port for a long time now.”

 

I’m not sure that any shuttle made the journey travelled due to cancellations during pandemic.

 

Anyway researching what others are doing on here. Think we might do train & taxi.

[Mackdogmolly]

32 minutes ago, donaldsc said:

 

An add on.  There are a total 447 ships in the original list.  Of them, only 185 are less than 590 feet in length.   This is a full list of the ships that are less than 590 ft long although for some reason the first one on the list is wrong.  Can't figure out why my Excel sort messed that one up.  The list is long but those are the ships that will be welcome in Vernice.  Many of them are expedition ships.  I have done a South Georgia cruise on the Ocean Adventurer.  She is a neat ship.

 

DON

 

Name		Year		Gross Tonnage		Draft		Length		Width
AIDAaura		2003		42289		24		663		92
American Constellation		2017						269		56
American Constitution		2018				7		269		56
American Glory		2002		1267		10		174		39
American Harmony		2019						269		59
American Pride		2012		2700		10		295		46
American Song		2018						269		59
American Spirit		2004		1955				220		43
American Star		2007		1973				217		43
Queen of the Mississippi		2015		3800		7		295		52
Queen of the West		1995		2100				233		49
American Duchess		2017		3560		13		341		98
American Empress		2003		5975				361		59
American Queen		1995		3707		20		417		89
Celebrity Flora		2019		5739		26		331		56
Celebrity Xpedition		2001		2842		10		289		46
Celebrity Xperience		2002		1610		5		210		43
Celebrity Xploration		2007		319		19		98		36
Celestyal Crystal		1980		25611		18		518		82
Celestyal Nefeli		1992		19093		23		538		75
Louis Aura		1968		15781		16		525		72
L'Austral		2011		10944		10		466		59
Le Bellot		2020		9900		16		430		59
Le Boreal		2010		10944				466		59
Le Bougainville		2019		9900				430		59
Le Champlain		2018		9900		10		430		59
Le Dumont dUrville		2019		9900				430		59
Le Laperouse		2018		9900		16		430		59
Le Lyrial		2015		10700		13		466		59
Le Ponant		1991		1189		16		289		36
Le Soleal		2013		10992		10		466		59
Le Surville		2020		10000		10		417		59
Ponant Icebreaker		2021		30000		26		492
Astor		1987		20704		25		577		72
Astoria		1948		16144		26		525		69
Marco Polo		1965		22080				577		75
Crystal Bach		2017		5000				443		39
Crystal Debussy		2018		5000		10		443		39
Crystal Esprit		1991		3341				279		46
Crystal Mahler		2017		5000				443		39
Crystal Mozart		1987		3100				394		75
Crystal Ravel		2018		5000		26		443		39
MV Clio		1998		3504		13		328		46
MV Corinthian		1990		4077				289		49
Hanseatic Inspiration		2019		15540				453		72
Hanseatic Nature		2019		15540		10		453		72
Hanseatic Spirit		2021		15540		16		453		72
MS Bremen		1990		6752		21		364		56
MS Finnmarken		2002		15690		17		456		69
MS Fram		2007		11647				371		66
MS Fridtjof Nansen		2020				15		459		79
MS Kong Harald		1993		11204		15		397		62
MS Lofoten		1964		2621		17		285		43
MS Midnatsol		2003		16151		15		446		69
MS Nordkapp		1996		11386		15		404		62
MS Nordlys		1994		11204		15		397		62
MS Nordnorge		1997		11384		15		404		62
MS Nordstjernen		1956		2191		15		285		41
MS Polarlys		1996		11341		15		404		62
MS Richard With		1993		11205				397		62
MS Roald Amundsen		2019				17		459		79
MS Spitsbergen		2009		7025		17		322		59
MS Trollfjord		2002		16140		15		443		69
MS Vesteralen		1983		6261		36		354		52
50 Let Pobedy icebreaker		2007		23440		20		495		98
Akademik Ioffe icebreaker		1989		6450		28		384		59
Murmansk icebreaker		2015		11720		28		394		92
Novorossiysk icebreaker		2016		11720		36		394		92
Rossiya icebreaker		1985		20680		23		492		98
RRS Discovery		2013		5952				328		59
RRS Sir David Attenborough icebreaker		2019		1500		30		423		79
Sankt Peterburg icebreaker		2009		11720		39		394		92
Sibir icebreaker		2019		33540		10		568		112
Ural icebreaker		2020		33540				568		112
Viktor Chernomyrdin icebreaker		2018		16000		28		482		95
Vladivostok icebreaker		2015		11720		26		394		92
Xue Long icebreaker		1993		15352		36		548		75
Yamal icebreaker		1992		20646				492		98
Yevgeny Primakov icebreaker		2018		8626		20		341		69
National Geographic Endeavour		1966		3132		11		292		46
National Geographic Endeavour II		2005		2716		10		240		43
National Geographic Explorer		1982		6471		6		367		52
National Geographic Islander		1995		1021		13		161		43
National Geographic Orion		2003		3984		10		335		46
National Geographic Quest		2017		2906		1		240		46
National Geographic Sea Bird		1982		630		9		164		30
National Geographic Sea Lion		1982		630		10		164		30
National Geographic Venture		2018		2906		25		240		46
NYV Caroline		2020				20		571
MS Deutschland		1998		22496		26		574		72
Island Sky		1992		4200		30		299		49
Kapitan Khlebnikov icebreaker		1981		12288		14		404		89
MV Sea Spirit		1991		4200		15		299		49
Ocean Adventurer		1975		4376		19		331		52
Ocean Atlantic		1986		12798		16		459		69
Ocean Diamond		1974		8282		19		407		52
Ocean Endeavour		1982		12907		12		449		69
Ocean Nova		1992		2183		10		240		36
World Explorer		2019		9300		24		413		62
Seven Seas Navigator		1999		28803		10		558		79
MS Victory I		2001		4954		13		285		49
MS Victory II		2004		4954		29		299		49
MS Knyazhna Anastasia		1989		5500				423		56
MS Konstantin Fedin		1980		5400				410		56
MS Konstantin Korotkov		1976		5400		10		410		56
MS Konstantin Simonov		1984		5500				423		56
MS Kronstadt		1979		5400				410		56
MS Lebedinoye Ozero		1986		5500		10		423		56
MS Lenin		1987		5500				423		56
MS Leonid Krasin		1986		5500		10		423		56
MS Leonid Sobolev		1985		5500				423		56
MS Lev Tolstoy		1979		5400				381		56
MS Lunnaya Sonata		1988		5500				423		56
MS Maxim Gorky		1969						361		49
MS Maxim Litvinov		1991		5500				423		56
MS Mikhail Frunze		1980		6300				446		56
MS Sergey Kuchkin		1979		6300				446		56
MS Taras Shevchenko		1991		5500				423		56
MS Ukraina		1979				10		381		56
MS Valerian Kuybyshev		1976		6300				446		56
MS Vasily Surikov		1975						361		48
MS Vissarion Belinsky		1980		5400		10		410		56
MS Volga		1970		2125				348		52
MS Volga Dream		1959		1500		10		315		49
MS Yuri Andropov		1986		5500		20		423		56
Saga Pearl II		1981		18627		28		538		72
Scenic Eclipse		2019		16500		10		545		72
Scenic Eclipse 2		2020		16500				545		72
MS Esprit		2010				22		361		39
SeaDream I		1984		4333		13		354		46
SeaDream II		1985		4333		16		354		46
Silver Cloud		1994		16927		10		509		69
Silver Discoverer		1989		5218		13		335		49
Silver Explorer		1989		6130		13		354		49
Silver Galapagos		1990		4077		10		289		49
Silver Wind		1995		17235		23		509		69
Aegean Paradise		1990		23287		19		571		79
Aranui 3		2002		7325		17		387		59
Aranui 5		2015		7500		42. 72		413		69
Caledonian Sky		1991		4200		8		295		46
Chichagof Dream		1984		1471		23		171		36
Coral Adventurer		2019		5536		10		308		56
Funchal		1961		9563		14		502		62
Galapagos Legend		1963		2890		20		302		49
Golden Iris		1977		16852		20		541		75
Greg Mortimer		2019		7400		10		341		59
Hebridean Princess		1964		2112		14		233		46
Hebridean Sky		1991		4200		20		295		49
Knyaz Vladimir		1971		9159		20		466		72
Leisure World		1969		15653		26		528		72
Lisboa		1955		16531		16		532		69
MS Berlin		1980		10550		22		456		59
MS Birka Stockholm		2004		34924		20		581		89
MS Delphin		1975		16214		16		515		72
MS Expedition		1972		6334		17		344		62
MS Hamburg		1997		15067		13		472		72
MS Panorama II</ td>		2004		498		23		164		36
mv Aegean Odyssey		1973		12094		23		459		66
MV Hondius		2019		6300		10		354		59
MV Magellan Explorer		2019		4900		20		299		52
mv Minerva		1996		12900		11		436		66
MV Stella Australis		2010		4508				292		46
MV Ventus Australis		2018		4508		26		292		46
Ocean Majesty		1966		10417		23		443		49
Ocean Victory		2021		7400		15		341		59
Orient Queen		1989		7478		23		397		56
Oriental Dragon		1972		18455		38		564		79
Paul Gauguin		1997		19170		11		502		69
Pearl Mist		2014		5109		16		335		56
Porto		1965		5888		16		384		52
RCGS Resolute		1991		8378		18		400		56
Royal Clipper		2000		4425		16		436		52
Sea Cloud		1931		2532				315		49
Sea Cloud II		2000		3849		11		348		52
Sea Endurance		1992		1268		26		164		36
Spirit of Enderby		1984		1750		15		236		43
Star Clipper		1992		2298		18		364		49
Star Flyer		1991		2298		19		364		49
Vidanta Alegria		1990		15271		20		502		69
Star Pisces		1990		40053		23		577		95
Viking River Cruises lonships		2015		5000		21		443		95
Star Breeze		1989		9975		18		440		62
Star Legend		1992		9961		18		443		69
Star Pride		1988		9975		13		436		69
Wind Spirit		1988		5307		13		440		52
Wind Star		1986		5397		16		440		52

Thanks for that. I wouldn’t think that the “icebreaker” and Expedition ships would be sailing in the

Med though.

[excitedofharpenden]

6 hours ago, Vineyard View said:

I really hope that Kotor pays attention to these types of changes that UNESCO can and will do. 
 

I am grateful that Dubrovnik has done so. Our previous visit was one that had way too many ships in port. 
 

Researching 1/2 day tour options sounds like the wise thing in Kotor. With the Regal in port, total pax is 5200. Once she leaves it will just be Onward and Viking. 

Ok, got it. This is the company. We had Miro's son Stefan as our guide who was excellent and he took us to a lovely pizza restaurant in Kotor to end our day (and I've been back there too).  Good luck!

 

https://www.miroandsons.com

 

Phil 

[Vineyard View]

Thank you Phil! I sincerely appreciate this link!

[laurieb]

4 hours ago, Mackdogmolly said:

Thanks for that. I wouldn’t think that the “icebreaker” and Expedition ships would be sailing in the

Med though.

Nor the American river cruise ships