HOW CAN YOU GET BETTER PRICING ON HAL CRUISES

[aliaschief]

Like many we are Carnival share holders which over the years has saved us thousands of dollars.

 

I’m sure others will say they have a better credit card deal but we pay for all our cruises with the Holland America credit card. Points add up and again we have cashed in points to the tune of thousands of dollars.

 

Unlike many we book through our Hal PCC and yes there are probably better deals but the upsell offers or upgrades our PCC has got us in our opinion have made up for it.

[cruisemom42]

6 hours ago, kazu said:

 

I am glad you said “not all”.  My experience has been the opposite on a number of unique itineraries.  Prices continued to rise as there were fewer and fewer cabins if the ship wasn’t sold out completely. 😉 

 

Mind you, over 1/2 my days cruising were on the Prinsendam because of her unique itineraries. 😉 

 

 

I thought I had responded to this earlier but my post never showed up.... apologies if it surfaces later.

 

One of HAL's strong points has always been itinerary, IMO. But with many of the smaller ships going away, I wonder whether we will continue to see so many of those options in future? I already see far fewer now than even a few years ago -- well, apart from the really long itineraries that are not possible for those who are not retired.

 

I have very little interest in cruising with HAL on larger ships and cookie-cutter itineraries. There are better options on other lines.

 

[kazu]

32 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I thought I had responded to this earlier but my post never showed up.... apologies if it surfaces later.

 

One of HAL's strong points has always been itinerary, IMO. But with many of the smaller ships going away, I wonder whether we will continue to see so many of those options in future? I already see far fewer now than even a few years ago -- well, apart from the really long itineraries that are not possible for those who are not retired.

 

I have very little interest in cruising with HAL on larger ships and cookie-cutter itineraries. There are better options on other lines.

 

 

Not sure but our Volendam cruise next year is the only one with the itinerary in Norway that visit two key fjords (most visit one or the other) and very nice.

 

Will it continue?  Who knows?  But I’ll take it when it’s there.

[mcrcruiser]

The Prices have risen   on HAL & other cruise lines because of the massive debt that has to be serviced to stay in business  from this pandemic .  However ,not  every past  passengers of cruises can afford  these substantial price increases   . The long itineraries may be a part of the HAL past because us retired generations are on fixed incomes  & thus must choose those vacations that we all can afford  .long itineraries depend on  retired folks who have the time & monies  for the most  of that itinerary population   . Thus ,imo going forward the cruise lines will appeal to the younger set on shorter cruise lengths   

 

 There may be a few long itineraries but for the most part the short ones will be the cruise lines main objective for marketing  purposes .It is all about their survival  in a very competitive  hospitality industry 

 

 

[cruisemom42]

4 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

The Prices have risen   on HAL & other cruise lines because of the massive debt that has to be serviced to stay in business  from this pandemic .  However ,not  every past  passengers of cruises can afford  these substantial price increases   . The long itineraries may be a part of the HAL past because us retired generations are on fixed incomes  & thus must choose those vacations that we all can afford  .long itineraries depend on  retired folks who have the time & monies  for the most  of that itinerary population   . Thus ,imo going forward the cruise lines will appeal to the younger set on shorter cruise lengths   

 

 There may be a few long itineraries but for the most part the short ones will be the cruise lines main objective for marketing  purposes .It is all about their survival  in a very competitive  hospitality industry 

 

 

 

Reading numerous forums here on CC I seem to hear many retirees talking about cruising more, not less. Of course this is just a small cross-section of cruisers in general. 

 

If cruise lines have trouble filling cabins, prices will adapt. If they are successful filling cabins at higher prices there is no reason to offer lower ones. Rather than offer "fire sale" prices, they may also opt to trim their fleets more and fill fewer cabins but at a higher passenger per diem.

 

BTW, price increases are likely not due to "massive debt" alone. Costs in other areas are also rising:  food, fuel, etc.

 

[iancal]

Since retiring we are doing far more independent land travel than cruising.   Pre covid  4-5 months a year.   Not a price issue.  We prefer to spend more time in one place.  A one day stop is not as appealing to us any more.  Our idea of visiting the Ionian or Greek Islands is to spend a month of spontaneous  island hopping by ferry.  The last thing we want is to share a crowded one day stop in Santorini, Mykonos, Corfu, or Dubrovnik with numerous other large cruise ships. Same with a number of our other favourite destinations in Europe, Asia, and Australia..   We do enjoy cruising but find that 14 days is about our limit.  After that we get tired of the environment and the food. 

 

We could care less about the debt load of mass market cruise lines. It is their business challenge, not ours. They have to complete with other cruise lines that do not have the same level of debt load and with other travel options.   We are hardly going to justify paying  an uncompetitive price for a cruise line product simply because the cruise cruise line has a high debt load.   

 

 We compare travel options based on what we perceive as the value to us.   Just based on cursory pricing it seems to me that the pricing gaps between  HAL, Celebrity, and Princesses of the world vs the premium or luxury lines have narrowed to the point where the value to us may be with the latter instead of the former.  We may pay more, but we believe that we will get considerably more from a value perspective.  We will not know until we shop and  book our first post covid cruise.  Probably some time next year.  Some of the new start up cruise lines that purchased ships at fire sale prices and brought them back up to standard may have very interesting itineraries.   

 

 

Edited September 2, 2021 by iancal

[mcrcruiser]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Reading numerous forums here on CC I seem to hear many retirees talking about cruising more, not less. Of course this is just a small cross-section of cruisers in general. 

 

If cruise lines have trouble filling cabins, prices will adapt. If they are successful filling cabins at higher prices there is no reason to offer lower ones. Rather than offer "fire sale" prices, they may also opt to trim their fleets more and fill fewer cabins but at a higher passenger per diem.

 

BTW, price increases are likely not due to "massive debt" alone. Costs in other areas are also rising:  food, fuel, etc.

 

 Yes agreed that in general prices of those items have increased . However ,a cost of the Mexican Riviera cruise for 7 nights  has gone up  29%  & that is not sue to fuel ,food coast increases alone  .Comparing pre pandemic  2019  to current  cruise  prices   with  HAL Koningsdam 

 

  You are correct that the seniors posting on these forums are a very small %  of the overall    cruising  public  or even the  senior cruising  public . . What we see & feel is that there are other forms of travel  options  within  reach of more seniors financially 

[mcrcruiser]

10 minutes ago, iancal said:

Since retiring we are doing far more independent land travel than cruising.   Pre covid  4-5 months a year.   Not a price issue.  We prefer to spend more time in one place.  A one day stop is not as appealing to us any more.  Our idea of visiting the Ionian or Greek Islands is to spend a month of spontaneous  island hopping by ferry.  The last thing we want is to share a crowded one day stop in Santorini, Mykonos, Corfu, or Dubrovnik with numerous other large cruise ships. Same with a number of our other favourite destinations in Europe, Asia, and Australia..   We do enjoy cruising but find that 14 days is about our limit.  After that we get tired of the environment and the food. 

 

We could care less about the debt load of mass market cruise lines. It is their business challenge, not ours. They have to complete with other cruise lines that do not have the same level of debt load and with other travel options.   We are hardly going to justify paying  an uncompetitive price for a cruise simply because the cruise cruise line has a high debt load.  

 

 We compare travel options based on what we perceive as the value to us.   Just based on cursory pricing it seems to me that the pricing gaps between  HAL, Celebrity, and Princesses of the world vs the premium or luxury lines have narrowed to the point where the value to us may be with the latter instead of the former.  We may pay more, but we believe that we will get considerably more from a value perspective.  We will not know until we shop and  book our first post covid cruise.  Probably some time next year.  Some of the new start up cruise lines that purchased ships at fire sale prices and brought them back up to standard may have very interesting itineraries.   

 

 

Oh yes we agree about spending more time in one place to see it all & with out cruise crowds    ,This is how we traveled in Europe  from country to country  Another  good example of this for us is when we did the interior of Alaska  on our own with a rental car  . It was far more enjoyable  & far less costly than the cruise line Alaska tours . I also got a kick out of the planing  the tour   & there was never a time limit  to where we stopped . Same was true when we visit  the National Parks & their beauty  

[Petrocelli]

So is the forum consensus that the prices of cruses are expensive at the moment?  I have a 7 day inside passage on the Konigsdam with a Verandah VA room.  (My first ever cruise.)  The price was about $5,000 for two.  Is that a little higher than normal?

[nocl]

5 hours ago, iancal said:

Since retiring we are doing far more independent land travel than cruising.   Pre covid  4-5 months a year.   Not a price issue.  We prefer to spend more time in one place.  A one day stop is not as appealing to us any more.  Our idea of visiting the Ionian or Greek Islands is to spend a month of spontaneous  island hopping by ferry.  The last thing we want is to share a crowded one day stop in Santorini, Mykonos, Corfu, or Dubrovnik with numerous other large cruise ships. Same with a number of our other favourite destinations in Europe, Asia, and Australia..   We do enjoy cruising but find that 14 days is about our limit.  After that we get tired of the environment and the food. 

 

We could care less about the debt load of mass market cruise lines. It is their business challenge, not ours. They have to complete with other cruise lines that do not have the same level of debt load and with other travel options.   We are hardly going to justify paying  an uncompetitive price for a cruise line product simply because the cruise cruise line has a high debt load.   

 

 We compare travel options based on what we perceive as the value to us.   Just based on cursory pricing it seems to me that the pricing gaps between  HAL, Celebrity, and Princesses of the world vs the premium or luxury lines have narrowed to the point where the value to us may be with the latter instead of the former.  We may pay more, but we believe that we will get considerably more from a value perspective.  We will not know until we shop and  book our first post covid cruise.  Probably some time next year.  Some of the new start up cruise lines that purchased ships at fire sale prices and brought them back up to standard may have very interesting itineraries.   

 

 

We are the same.  Funny how we now plan trips to avoid cruise intensive ports/areas.

[Mary229]

3 hours ago, Petrocelli said:

So is the forum consensus that the prices of cruses are expensive at the moment?  I have a 7 day inside passage on the Konigsdam with a Verandah VA room.  (My first ever cruise.)  The price was about $5,000 for two.  Is that a little higher than normal?

I cannot answer your question directly.  It would be great if there was a website that provided historical fares like google flights does for air. I keep a folder of cruises I want, since doing so I have a pretty good idea of when to book.

 

 That said I often compare the cruise price to doing an independent land package.  Often taking a cruise is the value.  

[iancal]

3 hours ago, Petrocelli said:

So is the forum consensus that the prices of cruses are expensive at the moment?  I have a 7 day inside passage on the Konigsdam with a Verandah VA room.  (My first ever cruise.)  The price was about $5,000 for two.  Is that a little higher than normal?

 

 

Looking backwards is not much use because those prices are no longer available. We were paying $100. per person for last minute med cruises on Celebrity seven years ago.  Hardly a comparison point for today's pricing structure.  Only the here and the now count when looking at current prices.

 

The real question....how does the fare compare to other similar cruise line offers such as Celebrity or Princess.  How does it compare to the current pricing for premium or lux cruise lines if they either are operating ships on this run at the moment.

 

We are not shopping or booking cruises at the moment.  First reason is covid.    Second reason is we do feel that cruise prices are inflated in order to take advantage of die hard cruisers.  We  believe that prices will remain inflated until the covid FCC incentives and discounted prepaid cards are used up or time expired.  

Edited September 3, 2021 by iancal

[Woofbite]

Got a single guarantee Neptune category SC on Nieuw Amsterdam next april for $3,673,  I think that was a bargain.

[nocl]

At this time there is only only a percentage of cruise capacity is operating, even those ships are sailing at reduced capacity.  A large percentage of the cruise market is hesitant about cruising.  

 

When you look at those that are willing to sail, many have credits to be used, others just want to get back on a ship. The cruise lines need to maximize their revenue for the relatively small number of cabins they are able to sell at the moment.

 

Combine them all and you have a market that is out of balance compared to norm and is far less price sensitive.  As a result prices are and will be high for the near future.

 

Prices will stabilize once the cruise lines are able to run all of their ships and have returned to previous capacity levels.  At that time the competitive pressures will reduce the cruise line pricing power.

[mcrcruiser]

15 hours ago, Mary229 said:

I cannot answer your question directly.  It would be great if there was a website that provided historical fares like google flights does for air. I keep a folder of cruises I want, since doing so I have a pretty good idea of when to book.

 

 That said I often compare the cruise price to doing an independent land package.  Often taking a cruise is the value.  

That is interesting that you said cruise vs land is where   often is the value  . We can  be gone to our time share  which is tradable for 4 to 5 star resorts   & we have Hilton Honor ,Marriott & Choice hotel points to apply   for trips weeks at a time . Thus ,we can knock the cost down substantially . This is true is our case  .Not every one has that flexibility .In the past we traveled Europe in great hotels & never paid cash for any one of them  .We always used points to book& no taxes either . Even eating 3 meals per day in the Executive lounges of Hilton hotels in Europe for free  ;which saved incredible savings in capital cities like Rome  

 

 We think our best move is booking cruises after final payment  ;as we do not need airfares  .Thus this is where we can realize the greatest savings 

[mcrcruiser]

9 minutes ago, nocl said:

At this time there is only only a percentage of cruise capacity is operating, even those ships are sailing at reduced capacity.  A large percentage of the cruise market is hesitant about cruising.  

 

When you look at those that are willing to sail, many have credits to be used, others just want to get back on a ship. The cruise lines need to maximize their revenue for the relatively small number of cabins they are able to sell at the moment.

 

Combine them all and you have a market that is out of balance compared to norm and is far less price sensitive.  As a result prices are and will be high for the near future.

 

Prices will stabilize once the cruise lines are able to run all of their ships and have returned to previous capacity levels.  At that time the competitive pressures will reduce the cruise line pricing power.

One thing is for certain , the cruise lines need revenue from sales at sea . If they price the cruise so high that the average family can do a land vacation for less they will loose that   sea revenue which they count on  . Bars ,Casinos ,speciality restaurants & the ships all generate substantial extra revenues  . Thus ,there is a fine balance to fill as many cabins as possible . for id any of these cash producing  areas fail then the line will have to shut their doors   .When you add in the cost to service that massive debt load on top of all this ,it is quite a   act   for any cruise line to turn a profit 

 

[Mary229]

41 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

That is interesting that you said cruise vs land is where   often is the value  . We can  be gone to our time share  which is tradable for 4 to 5 star resorts   & we have Hilton Honor ,Marriott & Choice hotel points to apply   for trips weeks at a time . Thus ,we can knock the cost down substantially . This is true is our case  .Not every one has that flexibility .In the past we traveled Europe in great hotels & never paid cash for any one of them  .We always used points to book& no taxes either . Even eating 3 meals per day in the Executive lounges of Hilton hotels in Europe for free  ;which saved incredible savings in capital cities like Rome  

 

 We think our best move is booking cruises after final payment  ;as we do not need airfares  .Thus this is where we can realize the greatest savings 

You must be the one in a million person who actually found value in a timeshare.  Most people just pay and pay and pay and never realize the value.   Also, I don't just go to the beach,  I can do that on my own and I don't really do city stays.  I like far flung locations with scenic, active options. Those are expensive

Edited September 3, 2021 by Mary229

[iancal]

16 hours ago, Mary229 said:

I cannot answer your question directly.  It would be great if there was a website that provided historical fares like google flights does for air. I keep a folder of cruises I want, since doing so I have a pretty good idea of when to book.

 

 That said I often compare the cruise price to doing an independent land package.  Often taking a cruise is the value.  

This has not been our experience within Europe over the past two or three years.  We found after returning for a seven week trip through Greece and Cyprus that our per diem, including transport once we were in Europe, was considerable less expensive than any of the mass market med cruises we looked at. Either before we left home or last minute in October while we were in Greece. 

 

We  intended to pick up a cruise but prices were high.  We flew to Cyprus  Even with two five days stays at resorts, a rental car for the entire period,  our spend for 14 days was considerably less that the Med cruise pricing (balcony) at that time.   And we found it much more enjoyable.

[Mary229]

1 minute ago, iancal said:

This has not been our experience within Europe over the past two or three years.  We found after returning for a seven week trip through Greece and Cyprus that our per diem, including transport once we were in Europe, was considerable less expensive than any of the mass market med cruises we looked at. Either before we left home or last minute in October while we were in Greece. 

 

We  intended to pick up a cruise but prices were high.  We flew to Cyprus  Even with two five days stays at resorts, a rental car for the entire period,  our spend for 14 days was considerably less that the Med cruise pricing (balcony) at that time.   And we found it much more enjoyable.

As I mentioned to MrCruiser I do not cruise to standard locations.  I cruise to exotic, far flung locations.    I guess I should have mentioned that in my post.  The only time I cruise the big three: Caribbean, the Med or Alaska is when I get a deal

[iancal]

32 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

As I mentioned to MrCruiser I do not cruise to standard locations.  I cruise to exotic, far flung locations.    I guess I should have mentioned that in my post.  The only time I cruise the big three: Caribbean, the Med or Alaska is when I get a deal

Our experience over multiple winters in Asia has been that independent land has been considerably less expensive (and much more preferable) than cruising, local air included.  Mixed experience in Australia.   

 

The reality is that these are two very different products that often attract a different customers.

 

 So the dollars to dollars comparison for us is not that important.  We look at preference and value.  Even if an Asian cruise was half the price of land we would select land.   We have no issue spending more on a cruise than a land based, and vice versa, depending on route.  Which is probably why we sometimes include a last minute cruise on our land travels.

Edited September 3, 2021 by iancal

[Mary229]

5 minutes ago, iancal said:

Our experience over multiple winters in Asia has been that independent land has been considerably less expensive (and much more preferable) than cruising, local air included.  Mixed experience in Australia.   

Last time I priced out Greenland with a whirl around Iceland land was much higher.  I have found the same in South America.  I guess it depends on where you are going and what are your interests.  I have absolutely no interest in city stays.  The only time I do go for city stays is with my sisters and that usually has a discounted group rate - I have a lot of sisters!

[mcrcruiser]

8 minutes ago, iancal said:

Our experience over multiple winters in Asia has been that independent land has been considerably less expensive (and much more preferable) than cruising, local air included.  Mixed experience in Australia.   

2015   we did the 3 week cruise from San Diego to Sydney  Australia   on HAL's Nordam  .a wonderful cruise  .Then we spent one full week in Sydney ,at the Sydney Blvd  Hotel . Because the HOHO bus   pulled right in front of the hotel we got to see all of Sydney plus the blue Mountains & across the bay  to  Mandalay Beach .We watched part of the  World Series   having lunch of hamburger  & chips   with a pint of beer  ,  

 

 Unfortunately the flights are so long that the only way to fly is business class  .We are now too old for the  hassles that come with  flying   now  . I can remember years back that flying was dun &  that was way before 9/11 

 

 I was tempted to fly to  New Zealand until I saw 13 hours direct flight  . Coming back was on the Emerald Princess   .It was the flight that made us not go 

[iancal]

The flights are long.  We have done five winters in Thailand via Bangkok, two of them return home  flights from Australia.  Plus 2 from S/E Asia to Australia Gold Coast.   

 

Bangkok is tough for us.  Three flights.  A short one, then 11 hours, then 8 hours.  For Australia we do a 'short' 11 hour or so hop to Honolulu on Jetstar.  Stay in HNL for a few days, then fly home. 

 

We did business class to Singapore.  17 hours or so.   We are getting tired of the air.  I suspect that we have one more winter in SE Asia and then will switch to Mexico or Costa RIca. 

Edited September 3, 2021 by iancal

[mcrcruiser]

56 minutes ago, iancal said:

The flights are long.  We have done five winters in Thailand via Bangkok, two of them return home  flights from Australia.  Plus 2 from S/E Asia to Australia Gold Coast.   

 

Bangkok is tough for us.  Three flights.  A short one, then 11 hours, then 8 hours.  For Australia we do a 'short' 11 hour or so hop to Honolulu on Jetstar.  Stay in HNL for a few days, then fly home. 

 

We did business class to Singapore.  17 hours or so.   We are getting tired of the air.  I suspect that we have one more winter in SE Asia and then will switch to Mexico or Costa RIca. 

Your travels sound most interesting  .wish we could do those long hall trips  again but alas our age has caught up 

[Petrocelli]

3 hours ago, iancal said:

This has not been our experience within Europe over the past two or three years.  We found after returning for a seven week trip through Greece and Cyprus that our per diem, including transport once we were in Europe, was considerable less expensive than any of the mass market med cruises we looked at. Either before we left home or last minute in October while we were in Greece. 

This is also my experience.  I am 61, and am going on my first cruise next year.  We are going to Alaska because we think we can see more of Alaska on a cruise, and with significantly more comfort.

 

My experience based on this one cruise is that cruising is more expensive than land based vacations.  My last trip was an 8 day trip to Scotland.  We stayed 6 nights in a hotel in Edinburgh that cost $275 a night.  We stayed in a hotel on Skye that cost $450 a night.  We pretty much ate and drank whatever we wanted, including two dinners at Michelin star restaurants.  Airfare for two was $2,700.  The cost for 2 people was $988 a night including airfare, excursions, car to the airport and back, etc.

 

So far, my cruise in a Verandah room with one night's stay in Vancouver, meals in Vancouver, three excursions, the "have it all" package, Club Orange upgrade, three specialty dinners, car to and from the airport, and $1,100 airfare,  is going to cost close to $1,300 a night even with the lower airfare.  But the price doen't deter me because Alaska is a bucket list item for us, and the best way to get there is a cruise IMO.

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Petrocelli