Vaccines and Minors under 12 - NCL is moving the goalpost!

[eplanet]

I'm set to sail from the NCL Bliss with another family on December 5th. We have 8 and 9 year old daughters respectively. Today we got a email letting us know that they are going to cancel our reservations on November 3rd by 5:00pm - even if we show proof of vaccination. I have pasted the full email below, but here is a new "rule" they put in place...

 

According to the FDA, WHO and EMA, only individuals 12 years and older are 1) eligible to receive vaccinations and 2) recognized by those entities as vaccinated. We therefore require all guests to be at least 12 years old by embarkation date to be allowed boarding. As such, all children under the age of 12, regardless of proof of vaccination, will be denied boarding at the pier.

 

The FDA approved the Pfizer vaccine for children between the ages of 5-11 October 29th (yesterday) and we have appointments to have our daughters vaccinated on November 3rd and 20th (maybe sooner if the kids vaccine arrives earlier). This means that 1) our daughters are FDA eligible for the vaccine and 2) will be fully vaccinated within 14 days of the cruise as per the NCL rules.  Note that the 17 days between shots is acceptable to the FDA and the NCL rules:

 

Norwegian Cruise Line | Sail Safe | Health & Safety Protocols (ncl.com)

 

What vaccines will be accepted?

For All Norwegian Cruise Line Ships:

Any U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), European Medicines Agency (EMA), and/or World Health Organization (WHO) authorized single brand vaccination protocol ≥2 weeks after receipt of the final dose.
i.e. J&J Janssen, Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, AstraZeneca/Oxford(Vaxzevria & CoviShield), etc.
A mixed vaccination combination of two doses of an FDA approved/authorized or WHO Emergency Use Listed (EUL) COVID-19 two-dose series with a minimum interval of 17 days.

 

To have our cruise cancelled, with the possibility of no refund, when we have followed the rules but NCL changed them, is a bit hard to accept. Does anyone have any advice on how we should proceed?

 

Thanks!!!

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

October 30th, 2021

 

Dear Valued Guests and Travel Partners, 

 

You are likely aware that we have been working tirelessly to provide the safest cruise experience possible, which means that all guests and crew must be fully vaccinated to travel on all sailings with embarkation dates through December 31, 2021. As a result, minors who are not eligible to be vaccinated (per the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), World Health Organization (WHO) and European Medicines Agency (EMA),) are not permitted to sail on these voyages. 

Our recent review of your reservation indicates that it includes guest(s) who are under the age of 12 years old. Given our latest sailing requirements, we are very sorry that we must cancel your upcoming reservation.   

 

If you prefer to keep your reservation by removing any guests under the age of 12, please contact us immediately at 1 (800) 327-7030.  All reservations will be canceled by Wednesday November 3rd, 2021 by 5pm EST. 

 

For those with proof of vaccination for guests under the age of 12, we ask that you submit a claim with your insurance provider. Although vaccinations are not yet authorized for individuals under the age of 12, should your insurance carrier deny your claim, please submit the denial, along with proof of vaccination, to https://www.ncl.com/case-submission and your case will be reviewed for a full refund in the form of a future cruise credit or cash refund. 

 

In the event you did not purchase travel protection, please submit a case with proof of vaccination to https://www.ncl.com/case-submission.

Our Latest Protocols 

 

A full outline of our latest protocols can be found here, and below is our current policy applicable for all sailings through December 31, 2021: 

For ships embarking or disembarking at U.S. ports, all guests must be vaccinated with FDA and/or WHO authorized single brand vaccinations.  

All other vessels departing from a non U.S. port will accept any?FDA,?EMA or WHO authorized single brand vaccination protocol, or a mixed vaccination protocol of only AstraZeneca, Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna.  

 

Vaccines received via clinical trials will not be accepted as they do not specify vaccine received. 

 

Failure to comply with the above requirements and protocols, will unfortunately result in denial of embarkation. Guests who are denied embarkation or reboarding for failure to comply with Norwegian Cruise Line’s COVID-19 Policies and Procedures will not be entitled to a refund or compensation of any kind and will be subject to the cancelation fee policy communicated to our guests at time of booking and can be found on our website https://www.ncl.com/about/cancellation-fee-schedule. For more information, please click here.  

 

According to the FDA, WHO and EMA, only individuals 12 years and older are 1) eligible to receive vaccinations and 2) recognized by those entities as vaccinated. We therefore require all guests to be at least 12 years old by embarkation date to be allowed boarding. As such, all children under the age of 12, regardless of proof of vaccination, will be denied boarding at the pier. 

 

We are very sorry that your reservation has been impacted, and we are truly sorry for any inconvenience. Despite the challenges we are all facing, we look forward to welcoming you and all our guests aboard for a safe and enjoyable vacation at sea.  

 

Thank you for choosing us! 

Sonia Breathwit Resolution Coordinator

Norwegian Cruise Line
7665 Corporate Center Drive, Miami, FL 33126

 

[CPT Trips]

Did NCL ever state that guests under 12 could cruise?

[eplanet]

19 minutes ago, CPT Trips said:

Did NCL ever state that guests under 12 could cruise?

 

1) They took the bookings (direct) knowing that we were traveling with children with the ages of 8 and 9.

2) There is no place on their sail safe rules that prohibit children under 12. Only those that are not fully vaccinated.  https://www.ncl.com/sail-safe

 

My issue here is that the kids are fully eligible to receive the vaccination by the FDA and will be fully vaccinated in time of the cruise, meeting all of NCL's requirements.  The email today was a shock as it said they will ban of kids under 12 from boarding regardless of vaccination status.

 

If we knew that they were going to be banning fully vaccinated kids, that were vaccinated under the rules of the FDA and the rules of NCL themselves - we would have canceled months ago when we could get 100% of our money back...

Edited October 31, 2021 by eplanet

[peg013]

CDC isn't even meeting until Tuesday and then the final decision on which children will be eligible for the shot will be made in the following days. CDC may not even have it approved by the date of your appointments!

[peg013]

2 minutes ago, eplanet said:

My issue here is that the kids are fully eligible to receive the vaccination by the FDA

 

Your problem is the CDC has the final say and they haven't even met yet.

[OrcaGirl]

As you say, the emergency approval for kids to get vaccinated only just happened yesterday. It seems logical that NCL hasn't updated their system to reflect yet that for any bookings with kids included.

 

The email you received is most likely a boilerplate communication scheduled to go out at set times based on sail dates to all bookings with children, to give families enough time to make the necessary decision on whether to cancel or leave the kids at home.

 

My suggestion is to call the number they provided on Monday and confirm that since the FDA has now approved COVID vaccines for kids, that your kids will now be permitted to sail. If the person answering the phone doesn't know about the change by the FDA, politely ask to speak to a supervisor until you get someone who does know about it and can speak to how that will be implemented by NCL.

 

Good luck.

[njhorseman]

41 minutes ago, eplanet said:

I'm set to sail from the NCL Bliss with another family on December 5th. We have 8 and 9 year old daughters respectively. Today we got a email letting us know that they are going to cancel our reservations on November 3rd by 5:00pm - even if we show proof of vaccination. I have pasted the full email below, but here is a new "rule" they put in place...

 

According to the FDA, WHO and EMA, only individuals 12 years and older are 1) eligible to receive vaccinations and 2) recognized by those entities as vaccinated. We therefore require all guests to be at least 12 years old by embarkation date to be allowed boarding. As such, all children under the age of 12, regardless of proof of vaccination, will be denied boarding at the pier.

 

The FDA approved the Pfizer vaccine for children between the ages of 5-11 October 29th (yesterday) and we have appointments to have our daughters vaccinated on November 3rd and 20th (maybe sooner if the kids vaccine arrives earlier). This means that 1) our daughters are FDA eligible for the vaccine and 2) will be fully vaccinated within 14 days of the cruise as per the NCL rules.  Note that the 17 days between shots is acceptable to the FDA and the NCL rules:

 

Norwegian Cruise Line | Sail Safe | Health & Safety Protocols (ncl.com)

 

What vaccines will be accepted?

For All Norwegian Cruise Line Ships:

Any U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), European Medicines Agency (EMA), and/or World Health Organization (WHO) authorized single brand vaccination protocol ≥2 weeks after receipt of the final dose.
i.e. J&J Janssen, Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, AstraZeneca/Oxford(Vaxzevria & CoviShield), etc.
A mixed vaccination combination of two doses of an FDA approved/authorized or WHO Emergency Use Listed (EUL) COVID-19 two-dose series with a minimum interval of 17 days.

 

To have our cruise cancelled, with the possibility of no refund, when we have followed the rules but NCL changed them, is a bit hard to accept. Does anyone have any advice on how we should proceed?

 

Thanks!!!

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

October 30th, 2021

 

Dear Valued Guests and Travel Partners, 

 

You are likely aware that we have been working tirelessly to provide the safest cruise experience possible, which means that all guests and crew must be fully vaccinated to travel on all sailings with embarkation dates through December 31, 2021. As a result, minors who are not eligible to be vaccinated (per the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), World Health Organization (WHO) and European Medicines Agency (EMA),) are not permitted to sail on these voyages. 

Our recent review of your reservation indicates that it includes guest(s) who are under the age of 12 years old. Given our latest sailing requirements, we are very sorry that we must cancel your upcoming reservation.   

 

If you prefer to keep your reservation by removing any guests under the age of 12, please contact us immediately at 1 (800) 327-7030.  All reservations will be canceled by Wednesday November 3rd, 2021 by 5pm EST. 

 

For those with proof of vaccination for guests under the age of 12, we ask that you submit a claim with your insurance provider. Although vaccinations are not yet authorized for individuals under the age of 12, should your insurance carrier deny your claim, please submit the denial, along with proof of vaccination, to https://www.ncl.com/case-submission and your case will be reviewed for a full refund in the form of a future cruise credit or cash refund. 

 

In the event you did not purchase travel protection, please submit a case with proof of vaccination to https://www.ncl.com/case-submission.

Our Latest Protocols 

 

A full outline of our latest protocols can be found here, and below is our current policy applicable for all sailings through December 31, 2021: 

For ships embarking or disembarking at U.S. ports, all guests must be vaccinated with FDA and/or WHO authorized single brand vaccinations.  

All other vessels departing from a non U.S. port will accept any?FDA,?EMA or WHO authorized single brand vaccination protocol, or a mixed vaccination protocol of only AstraZeneca, Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna.  

 

Vaccines received via clinical trials will not be accepted as they do not specify vaccine received. 

 

Failure to comply with the above requirements and protocols, will unfortunately result in denial of embarkation. Guests who are denied embarkation or reboarding for failure to comply with Norwegian Cruise Line’s COVID-19 Policies and Procedures will not be entitled to a refund or compensation of any kind and will be subject to the cancelation fee policy communicated to our guests at time of booking and can be found on our website https://www.ncl.com/about/cancellation-fee-schedule. For more information, please click here.  

 

According to the FDA, WHO and EMA, only individuals 12 years and older are 1) eligible to receive vaccinations and 2) recognized by those entities as vaccinated. We therefore require all guests to be at least 12 years old by embarkation date to be allowed boarding. As such, all children under the age of 12, regardless of proof of vaccination, will be denied boarding at the pier. 

 

We are very sorry that your reservation has been impacted, and we are truly sorry for any inconvenience. Despite the challenges we are all facing, we look forward to welcoming you and all our guests aboard for a safe and enjoyable vacation at sea.  

 

Thank you for choosing us! 

Sonia Breathwit Resolution Coordinator

Norwegian Cruise Line
7665 Corporate Center Drive, Miami, FL 33126

 

While the FDA approved the vaccine for children ages 5 to 11 it still has to be approved by the CDC before vaccination can commence. Even if the CDC acts next week it's virtually impossible for your children to be vaccinated on November 3 . But let's say they can be vaccinated that day. The second dose can't be given any earlier  than three weeks later, November 24. The 17 day interval you're quoting is for mixed vaccines, not two doses of the same vaccine.Then two weeks have to elapse before they will be considered fully vaccinated.

 

That brings you to December 8, so your children are not eligible to cruise on December 5.

[njhorseman]

13 minutes ago, OrcaGirl said:

As you say, the emergency approval for kids to get vaccinated only just happened yesterday. It seems logical that NCL hasn't updated their system to reflect yet that for any bookings with kids included.

 

The email you received is most likely a boilerplate communication scheduled to go out at set times based on sail dates to all bookings with children, to give families enough time to make the necessary decision on whether to cancel or leave the kids at home.

 

My suggestion is to call the number they provided on Monday and confirm that since the FDA has now approved COVID vaccines for kids, that your kids will now be permitted to sail. If the person answering the phone doesn't know about the change by the FDA, politely ask to speak to a supervisor until you get someone who does know about it and can speak to how that will be implemented by NCL.

 

Good luck.

Sorry but the FDA approval is not the final word. The CDC still has to approve the vaccine before it can be administered. There's no way the children will be able to get both doses and then have two weeks elapse thereafter to meet the December 5 sail date.

[eplanet]

16 minutes ago, peg013 said:

CDC isn't even meeting until Tuesday and then the final decision on which children will be eligible for the shot will be made in the following days. CDC may not even have it approved by the date of your appointments!

 

The CDC is expected to approve it Tuesday. Our appointment is Wednesday afternoon. We are in Los Angeles, so even if approved late on Wednesday, its still pretty early our time. Pfizer started shipping the vaccines today, our local pharmacy expects to get it Monday / Tuesday. Our pharmacist says that the FDA decision is all that's needed, and the NCL rules do not require CDC approval (FDA or WHO). Yes, its cutting it close. I can understand NCL cancelling us if we hit a snag and she cannot get vaccinated in time - but to cancel us even if she is fully vaccinated in time - that's my issue...

[dobiemom]

22 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

While the FDA approved the vaccine for children ages 5 to 11 it still has to be approved by the CDC before vaccination can commence. Even if the CDC acts next week it's virtually impossible for your children to be vaccinated on November 3 . But let's say they can be vaccinated that day. The second dose can't be given any earlier  than three weeks later, November 24. The 17 day interval you're quoting is for mixed vaccines, not two doses of the same vaccine.Then two weeks have to elapse before they will be considered fully vaccinated.

 

That brings you to December 8, so your children are not eligible to cruise on December 5.

That’s the math I get, too. Sorry OP @eplanet. Maybe you could move your cruise a week later?

[eplanet]

18 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

While the FDA approved the vaccine for children ages 5 to 11 it still has to be approved by the CDC before vaccination can commence. Even if the CDC acts next week it's virtually impossible for your children to be vaccinated on November 3 . But let's say they can be vaccinated that day. The second dose can't be given any earlier  than three weeks later, November 24. The 17 day interval you're quoting is for mixed vaccines, not two doses of the same vaccine.Then two weeks have to elapse before they will be considered fully vaccinated.

 

That brings you to December 8, so your children are not eligible to cruise on December 5.

 

The NCL language is a bit confusing as they recently edited it to include the FDA's decision to allow for mixed vaccines. Below is the CDC Language. 

 

Interim Clinical Considerations for Use of COVID-19 Vaccines | CDC

 

Primary series

Individuals who receive the second dose of an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine no more than 4 days before (referred to as the “grace period”) or at any time after the recommended second dose date are considered to have completed the primary series.³ If the second dose of a vaccine is given earlier than the 4-day grace period (i.e., the second dose is administered <17 days [Pfizer-BioNTech] or <24 days [Moderna]), the second dose should be repeated. The repeat dose should be spaced after the dose given in error by the recommended minimum interval (see Appendix A for more details).

[Pebbs48]

So you made final payment 3-4 weeks ago hoping the vaccine for children would be approved in time for your sail date?

[eplanet]

9 minutes ago, dobiemom said:

That’s the math I get, too. Sorry OP @eplanet. Maybe you could move your cruise a week later?

 

Yeah - we suggested that since the cruise the week after is pretty empty, but were told no. 😞

 

Just to be clear - if she's not fully vaccinated by the cruise date, we have no problem with NCL denying boarding.  Those were the rules. The issue is with the denial of boarding even if we should that she is fully vaccinated. That was not the rule, until today...

 

Also - the FDA allows the second shot within 17 days, taking the date to December 4th - not December 8th.

Edited October 31, 2021 by eplanet

[eplanet]

10 minutes ago, Pebbs48 said:

So you made final payment 3-4 weeks ago hoping the vaccine for children would be approved in time for your sail date?

 

Yep. And we have made a "plan b" if we were not able to vaccinate her in time. Our plan b is for another family member (Grandma), who is also booked on the cruise, to stay behind with her. My issue is that at the time i made the payment, she just needed to be fully vaccinated two weeks prior to the cruise. now they changed it to - "even if you show that she is fully vaccinated, she cant go." If i knew they were going to change the rules, i would not have paid...

Edited October 31, 2021 by eplanet

[AwesomO]

IF she is fully vaccinated in time for the cruise, I don't think she will be denied boarding if FDA and CDC have approved the vaccine. The current email was sent on the basis of a vaccine for kids under 12 not currently being approved. So if the vaccine is not approved and you somehow got your child vaccinated, THEN they will deny boarding despite their vaccination status. Once CDC signs off and NCL gets their policies UTD in line with those updates, I am very confident that a fully a vaccinated child who has complied with all vaccine protocols will not be turned away

[eplanet]

2 minutes ago, AwesomO said:

IF she is fully vaccinated in time for the cruise, I don't think she will be denied boarding if FDA and CDC have approved the vaccine. The current email was sent on the basis of a vaccine for kids under 12 not currently being approved. So if the vaccine is not approved and you somehow got your child vaccinated, THEN they will deny boarding despite their vaccination status. Once CDC signs off and NCL gets their policies UTD in line with those updates, I am very confident that a fully a vaccinated child who has complied with all vaccine protocols will not be turned away

 

I hope so. I will give them another call in the morning. The letter freaked us all out...

[michele.westphall]

But even with final payment - aren't you allowed to change the sail date under the peace of mind to the following week?

[JC5240]

Sorry, OP. But I would consider looking further into your Plan B. Just take it in strides and hope for the best.

 

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/10/30/1050690655/parents-should-be-patient-about-getting-covid-vaccines-for-kids-white-house-says

[ChiefMateJRK]

5 hours ago, eplanet said:

I'm set to sail from the NCL Bliss with another family on December 5th. We have 8 and 9 year old daughters respectively.

Why did you do this, knowing the high risk of complications?

[MsTabbyKats]

@eplanetYou're getting (understandably) upset about something that may not happen.  You have Plan B.  Don't fret about Plan A until your kids actually get vaccinated and you can argue your case.

 

CVS was accepting appts for the moderna booster and canceling appts for the moderna booster for about 2 weeks until they were really ready to give them...based on FDA and CDC approvals.

[Oakman58]

I'd like to know why you booked this cruise not knowing if or when a vaccine for children under 12 would be approved.   

[CruizinKittie40]

11 minutes ago, Oakman58 said:

I'd like to know why you booked this cruise not knowing if or when a vaccine for children under 12 would be approved.   

this

[Goldconnection]

Sound like OP took a gamble and lost. Oh well, at least there is a plan B.

[phillygwm]

11 hours ago, eplanet said:

 

1) They took the bookings (direct) knowing that we were traveling with children with the ages of 8 and 9.

2) There is no place on their sail safe rules that prohibit children under 12. Only those that are not fully vaccinated.  https://www.ncl.com/sail-safe

 

My issue here is that the kids are fully eligible to receive the vaccination by the FDA and will be fully vaccinated in time of the cruise, meeting all of NCL's requirements.  The email today was a shock as it said they will ban of kids under 12 from boarding regardless of vaccination status.

 

@njhorsemanput it best.  Children under 12 are not prohibited but the math is such that, even if your kids did get vaxxed on the 3rd, they can't meet the timeline given you need 21 days between Pfizer shots and considering you're not "fully vaxxed" until 14 days after the second shot.

 

NCL took the reservation because it was theoretically possible that the shots for kids might have been approved sooner in which case everything would have worked out.  You cut things too close, unfortunately.  Even if the timing was better, chances are your kids would have been among a very small number (possibly the only two) on the ship so not sure they'd have a lot of child-friendly activities ready to go.

Edited October 31, 2021 by phillygwm

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Trying to get your kids second dose 17 days after the first one instead of the full 3 weeks just so you can make a cruise is a really bad idea.  Those doses are spaced out for a reason.  One of the reasons moderna may be more effective then pfizer is because of the 4 week gap instead of the 3 week gap.  You definitely shoudln’t be trying to shorten that gap just to go on a vacation.