Gratuities

[LGW59]

22 hours ago, Akkers said:

We as consumers do have to care. We dont want to use the services of 'identured' or slave labour. If we pay for a service then we should expect the company to reasonablly reimburse their staff. If they dont then we should go elsewhere (if there are choices) or not use the service at all.

My point is that the cruise lines should be paying reasonable salaries to their staff. If the salaries are not enough then they should be increased out of increased fares. But expecting to top-up staff wages from tips and extras is, IMO , irritating and unprofessional.

OK, so let's say they increase the cost of the cruise to include them, and then they remove the words "tips" or "gratuities" , will that make you happy?  WTH is the damn difference already.  Then you'll be on here squawking about the new price increases, cruise or don't, tip or don't, no one will know or even care other than the hard working crew.

[LGW59]

4 hours ago, Akkers said:

Tipping is not a common thing in the UK, only happens in high-end establishments. I know that service charges/tipping are a big thing in North America - confuses me no end.

So over there if you order something you have to pay extra x% service charge and y% tip? How does that work? Why not include in the price and make it easier for the customers.

Say you order a portion of caviar which is 500 dollars; which the staff just pouur out of a box onto a plate. The service charge, say at 10%, means you pay an extra 50 dollars. But at the same place you order a steak for 20 dollars which takes forever to cook and garnish but service charge is 2 dollars. How is that justified?

In any walk of life, there is a seller and a buyer. Seller says 'I am selling at this price' and the buyer can agree to buy it or not depending on his budget.  Thats it!

And as for tipping, people say you should tip for excellent service. Why? Are staff not employed to give excellent service anyway? Or is there 2-tier service; one for tipping customers and one for none-tippers like me? And I do believe the tippers degrade the service for non-tippers. I was in Egypt recently and noticed that at the hotel pool bar staff were all over certain people bringing them drinks regularly (they were the tippers). Whereas other guests, like me, were totally ignored and we had to go to the bar to get our own drinks.

Whereas other guests, like me, were totally ignored and we had to go to the bar to get our own drinks.  Apparently the hotel pool bar staff read CC.

[billslowsky]

5 hours ago, Akkers said:

And I do believe the tippers degrade the service for non-tippers. I was in Egypt recently and noticed that at the hotel pool bar staff were all over certain people bringing them drinks regularly (they were the tippers). Whereas other guests, like me, were totally ignored and we had to go to the bar to get our own drinks.

Fill out a comment card when the bar staff treats you like that.  I do.

[bonsai3s]

My “tipping” story…

 

As a young kid, I was a paperboy and delivered the San Francisco Examiner/Chronicle to as many as 300 customers.  Walked up and down the steep hills of San Francisco, inside numerous apartments and many beautiful Victorian homes.

 

Each month, I would have to knock on each door and “collect” for money due…some customers would tip me, some won’t.  I was extremely happy to get even a quarter (25 cents) from a customer.  It was a lot of money back in the 60’s.

 

I quickly learned the value of money and saved every penny.

 

Years later, the money I saved from tips…I used and purchased Chrysler stocks.  Yes, when it was about to go bankrupt. Everyone warned me that I was making a big mistake.  Chrysler hired a guy named Lee Iaccoca…and the rest is history.  Chrysler stocks split, split again, and Chrysler was bought by Daimler-Benz.  I continued to receive quarterly dividends from my stocks for years.

 

As a young adult, the money I saved from those same stocks, allowed me to buy my first home.  Then a second home.  Fast forward to today…happily retired and happy to be back cruising.  I am genuinely grateful to all those customers that gave me a 25 cent tip.

[goldfish65]

One thing no one has mentioned....how would the tipped workers on ships feel if the system was changed to a "fair" salary? They may like the tipping model better and be quite resentful having their pay tinkered with, as any of us would be if management decided to change the way we are paid.  

 

Also those who are concerned about fair wages, have you stopped buying imported goods from the companies who don't pay a fair wage? 

 

Those who don't want to tip or don't want to tip extra, you have that choice, and you don't want to be criticized. Same goes for me, I want to tip and that's my choice...tipping has been around for a long time and it's not going way. If I get a warmer reception, a stronger cocktail, a better table, more attention, well, that's just what happens. If not, that's okay too. It makes me feel good to do a small kindness, knowing these workers aren't rich, maybe I'm helping them afford to send their kids to school, surely the money helps. 

Edited February 15, 2022 by goldfish65

[bavrail18]

Very simple.

If the tipping in the US or Canada confuses you DO NOT travel there.

If you do not like the tipping policy of a cruise line DO NOT book a cruise with them.

[not-enough-cruising]

22 minutes ago, bavrail18 said:

Very simple.

If the tipping in the US or Canada confuses you DO NOT travel there.

If you do not like the tipping policy of a cruise line DO NOT book a cruise with them.

Nonsense 

 

ALL tipping is OPTIONAL regardless of where you are 

[joeyancho]

7 hours ago, goldfish65 said:

One thing no one has mentioned....how would the tipped workers on ships feel if the system was changed to a "fair" salary? They may like the tipping model better and be quite resentful having their pay tinkered with, as any of us would be if management decided to change the way we are paid.  

 

Also those who are concerned about fair wages, have you stopped buying imported goods from the companies who don't pay a fair wage? 

 

Those who don't want to tip or don't want to tip extra, you have that choice, and you don't want to be criticized. Same goes for me, I want to tip and that's my choice...tipping has been around for a long time and it's not going way. If I get a warmer reception, a stronger cocktail, a better table, more attention, well, that's just what happens. If not, that's okay too. It makes me feel good to do a small kindness, knowing these workers aren't rich, maybe I'm helping them afford to send their kids to school, surely the money helps. 

The joy truly is in the giving.  I like to leave the impression that Americans are kind and generous people.  

[Mikew0805]

On 2/9/2022 at 7:11 AM, Rusty_lock said:

I did read the thread and that is what they said, quite specifically.  The OP, in their second post, posited the bizarre scenario where they would use no services aboard the ship.  That their future posts clarified their position doesn't grant you license to respond pedantically or in a condescending manner to me. 

New to the internet?  

 

FWIW, I don't think pcur was responding rude to you at all. But hey.. that is just me. 

 

To the OP, and to remain on topic:  Tip or don't tip. That is between you and your conscience.

[Akkers]

If the cruise company says it will cost you x amount to do the cruise then thats fine. I can decide to go ahead or not depoending on my budget. But I dont want them to give me a price and then start adding extras afterwards and put me in a financial possition. Is that too much to ask?

Do or do not.

[kernow]

49 minutes ago, Akkers said:

If the cruise company says it will cost you x amount to do the cruise then thats fine. I can decide to go ahead or not depoending on my budget. But I dont want them to give me a price and then start adding extras afterwards and put me in a financial possition. Is that too much to ask?

Do or do not.

I'm from the UK like you and usually book here. When I'm initially pricing the cruise whether directly with RCL or with a TA I always ask for the price with the gratuities added and that is the price that I use to decide if I want to book the cruise. I too would much rather RCL just do it automatically like MSC, P&O and some others do in the UK market but they don't so I do it myself. If you really don't like it perhaps you should choose one of the other cruise lines.

 

Personally I hate watching the lines of people at guest services on UK cruises who are there waiting to remove their gratuities but as others have said it's none of my business, just don't go around complaining about poor service if you do this, the staff are only human after all.

[sgmn]

On 2/9/2022 at 4:47 PM, Akkers said:

As someone has correctly pointed out its a clash of cultures.

We in the UK are used to paying a fixed price. The fixed price usually includes taxes, staff wages, bills, profits etc.  If a retailer displays a TV for sale at 700GBP then we can buy it or not buy it depending on our budget and we know that the 700GBP will pay for the retailers profit, taxes, costs, staff wages etc. And we expect the retailer to pay a fair wage to the staff (there is a legal minimum wage in the UK). The only extra we can expect is delivery charges if we want it delivered.

So in my book, a business should quote one simple price out of which they can make  profit, pay taxes, wages etc and the customer either pays or not depending on what their budget is and if they can afford that figure.  Simple - one price; buy or not buy.

What next? Will they have a charge for using the bathroom onboard the ship?

Isnt there some kind of international law on minimum wages on ships?

When I go out for dinner in the UK I always tip, I wouldn't want to have to carry money around the ship to tip after each meal. Thus $14.50 tip a day for all meals, and for housekeeping twice a day is very good value in my opinion. And I can include into my overall cost at the time of booking so its all prepaid before I start my holiday. 

 

[Readytogo]

19 hours ago, bonsai3s said:

My “tipping” story…

 

 

 

As a young kid, I was a paperboy and delivered the San Francisco Examiner/Chronicle to as many as 300 customers.  Walked up and down the steep hills of San Francisco, inside numerous apartments and many beautiful Victorian homes.

 

 

 

Each month, I would have to knock on each door and “collect” for money due…some customers would tip me, some won’t.  I was extremely happy to get even a quarter (25 cents) from a customer.  It was a lot of money back in the 60’s.

 

 

 

I quickly learned the value of money and saved every penny.

 

 

 

Years later, the money I saved from tips…I used and purchased Chrysler stocks.  Yes, when it was about to go bankrupt. Everyone warned me that I was making a big mistake.  Chrysler hired a guy named Lee Iaccoca…and the rest is history.  Chrysler stocks split, split again, and Chrysler was bought by Daimler-Benz.  I continued to receive quarterly dividends from my stocks for years.

 

 

 

As a young adult, the money I saved from those same stocks, allowed me to buy my first home.  Then a second home.  Fast forward to today…happily retired and happy to be back cruising.  I am genuinely grateful to all those customers that gave me a 25 cent tip.

 

Best comment ever on a tipping thread!

[sgmn]

On 2/15/2022 at 12:14 PM, Akkers said:

Tipping is not a common thing in the UK, only happens in high-end establishments. I know that service charges/tipping are a big thing in North America - confuses me no end.

 

I tip in the UK at any pub or restaurant where I get service, not just in 'High end establishments'.   Please don't feel you have to answer for the whole UK population......

 

It is what it is, if you're not happy go with a cruiseline which includes gratuities in their basic cost like celebrity 

[sgmn]

2 hours ago, Akkers said:

If the cruise company says it will cost you x amount to do the cruise then thats fine. I can decide to go ahead or not depoending on my budget. But I dont want them to give me a price and then start adding extras afterwards and put me in a financial possition. Is that too much to ask?

Do or do not.

It's not added afterwards. You can add at time of booking before you commit to purchase 

[UNCFanatik]

15 hours ago, bavrail18 said:

Very simple.

If the tipping in the US or Canada confuses you DO NOT travel there.

If you do not like the tipping policy of a cruise line DO NOT book a cruise with them.

Very simple

 

Gratuities are optional as they are all over the US. 

 

If people who do not like the tipping policy didnt book cruises then it would hurt the crew even more because of lost revenue and the cruise lines wouldnt need as many cruise members

 

My cruise fare goes towards the salary of the crew already. 

[Akkers]

I think a lot of people already stay away from cruising because of complex pricing. What with all the extras like gratuties, wi-fi, drinks, excursions etc. Its mind-boggling for some.

[UNCFanatik]

20 hours ago, bonsai3s said:

My “tipping” story…

 

 

 

As a young kid, I was a paperboy and delivered the San Francisco Examiner/Chronicle to as many as 300 customers.  Walked up and down the steep hills of San Francisco, inside numerous apartments and many beautiful Victorian homes.

 

 

 

Each month, I would have to knock on each door and “collect” for money due…some customers would tip me, some won’t.  I was extremely happy to get even a quarter (25 cents) from a customer.  It was a lot of money back in the 60’s.

 

 

 

I quickly learned the value of money and saved every penny.

 

 

 

Years later, the money I saved from tips…I used and purchased Chrysler stocks.  Yes, when it was about to go bankrupt. Everyone warned me that I was making a big mistake.  Chrysler hired a guy named Lee Iaccoca…and the rest is history.  Chrysler stocks split, split again, and Chrysler was bought by Daimler-Benz.  I continued to receive quarterly dividends from my stocks for years.

 

 

 

As a young adult, the money I saved from those same stocks, allowed me to buy my first home.  Then a second home.  Fast forward to today…happily retired and happy to be back cruising.  I am genuinely grateful to all those customers that gave me a 25 cent tip.

 

 

Heres my story

 

I saved all the money I would have spent on tips and invested in a guy starting a company called Microsoft and now I am a gazillionare

 

See...it works both ways..

[UNCFanatik]

12 hours ago, Computer Nerd said:

You don't need to know what employees are being paid to do what is expected of you.

 

Lol. I expect to receive the goods and service I paid for. 

 

What is expected of me is to pay the price listed. Anything else is a bonus and is not "expected"

[UNCFanatik]

10 hours ago, PTC DAWG said:

You could always stay home. 

As could you. 

 

And if me and others like me all stayed home it would hurt the cruise industry and therefore the crew as well. But I know economics and math are hard concepts for you to grasp

[brillohead]

3 hours ago, Akkers said:

If the cruise company says it will cost you x amount to do the cruise then thats fine. I can decide to go ahead or not depoending on my budget. But I dont want them to give me a price and then start adding extras afterwards and put me in a financial possition. Is that too much to ask?

Do or do not.

It is disclosed up-front, not sprung on you at the last minute.  If you have a philosophical objection to it being called a gratuity, just go to a different line that still charges it but lumps it into the cost of your cruise. 

 

We have a phrase called "six to one, half dozen to another" -- it's the same whether you pay it up front or pay it on the ship, it's still the same amount.  I'm not sure why it's so confusing/upsetting to you. 

[brillohead]

46 minutes ago, Akkers said:

I think a lot of people already stay away from cruising because of complex pricing. What with all the extras like gratuties, wi-fi, drinks, excursions etc. Its mind-boggling for some.

How is it any more mind-boggling than any other type of vacation?

If you were to drive to the beach and vacation there for a week, you'd have even MORE complex costs to keep track of:

Hotel room

Parking (costs extra at some hotels)
Wi-Fi (costs extra at some hotels)
Breakfast
Lunch
Dinner/Supper
Entertainment
Alcoholic drinks or soft drinks throughout the day and with meals

Tours or activities each day, renting a beach chair, admission to a museum, etc.

On a cruise, you have way less:

Stateroom (also includes breakfast, lunch, dinner, and drinks with meals like juice for breakfast, coffee, tea, lemonade, etc.; entertainment is included; many activities are free each day)
Wi-Fi 
Alcoholic drinks or soda/fizzy drinks



Why is this soooooooo mind-boggling?

 

[time4u2go]

16 minutes ago, brillohead said:

We have a phrase called "six to one, half dozen to another"

Actually it's "six of one, half a dozen of the other"

[Akkers]

"six of one, half a dozen of the other" - is that same? Surely you got 6 of item x and half dozen (6) of item y. They are not same, are they, except the count?

eg: Six oranges are not same as half dozen apples.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Akkers

[Akkers]

'It is disclosed up-front, not sprung on you at the last minute'. Really?

If you go to any travel agent website and look at cruise prices, it will tell you cost of cruise and cost of upgrading cabin but thats about it. It never tells you how much gratuties are, price of drinks packages, wi-fi costs etc. These are hidden costs which you dont find out til end unless you take the trouble to do the research in advance.