Revised Black Sea Itinerary

[ECCruise]

12 minutes ago, blag said:

I have now received a response from Azamara. They state that no further communications other than the original notification of the change of itinerary are expected.

But they did confirm that I am entitled to a full refund of the sums paid and for a cash refund for FCC's applied for this cruise.

No other contributions toward other expenses nor any reductions are anticipated by Azamara.

It would seem, therefore that I was not 'jumping the gun' and things are as I expected.

Obviously, you are only going to be happy if they reduce the price of the sailing (which may be reasonable)  and/or give you money for the non-refundable items you booked, which is definitely not their concern. We book nothing non-refundable or non-changeable in this environment and we have dozens of flights and lodgings booked for the next 18 months or so. Just way too risky.

[blag]

5 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Frankly, a full cash refund – including cash for FCCs applied – seems pretty generous to me.  Sorry that it doesn't make you completely whole, but it's far better than the impression I had gotten that they were leaving you high and dry.

On the face of it, you are correct. 

But.. I have purchased non-refundable business-class flights to and from Istanbul. As I have said several times, because my travel insurers interpret cancellation of the cruise as being my choice (because the cruise is not cancelled by the operators) the coverage does not apply. 

I will be £1500 out of pocket as a consequence. If Azamara had cancelled and given me the chance to rebook (should I wish), my insurers would have covered me.

That is why I am not happy. I realise the circumstances are not Azamara's fault. I will become an economic victim of Putin's aggression.

It's easy to say that I should accept this, but I do not do so gladly. Nor, I expect, would most people, irrespective of the apparent generosity on Azamara's part. 

[blag]

1 minute ago, ECCruise said:

Obviously, you are only going to be happy if they reduce the price of the sailing (which may be reasonable)  and/or give you money for the non-refundable items you booked, which is definitely not their concern. We book nothing non-refundable or non-changeable in this environment and we have dozens of flights and lodgings booked for the next 18 months or so. Just way too risky.

I booked the flights way, way before any indication that there were likely to be problems. In fact, it seems that Azamara did not anticipate these problems, so I was not alone. 

But it seems to me that you are suggesting that this is my fault, which I don't entirely accept. You may be a more prudent and cautious individual than I am, but I like to get things sorted well in advance.

I think that since Azamara have 'dropped me in it' twice out of 5 cruises (for whatever reasons), I think that it is time to move on and spend my money elsewhere.

[LeCommandant]

@blagI booked non refundable flight tickets with Air Canada, which were finally refundable (voucher). COVID-19 policies may help you to get refunded. 

 

Maybe you should investigate this (no guarantee) 😉 

[blag]

1 minute ago, LeCommandant said:

@blagI booked non refundable flight tickets with Air Canada, which were finally refundable (voucher). COVID-19 policies may help you to get refunded. 

 

Maybe you should investigate this (no guarantee) 😉 

I plan to visit Turkish Airlines office in NYC tomorrow.

[ECCruise]

54 minutes ago, blag said:

I booked the flights way, way before any indication that there were likely to be problems. In fact, it seems that Azamara did not anticipate these problems, so I was not alone. 

But it seems to me that you are suggesting that this is my fault, which I don't entirely accept. You may be a more prudent and cautious individual than I am, but I like to get things sorted well in advance.

I think that since Azamara have 'dropped me in it' twice out of 5 cruises (for whatever reasons), I think that it is time to move on and spend my money elsewhere.

Not blaming you at all, just questioning your expectation that Azamara should be on the hook for what you booked.  I told you that I felt it may be reasonable to expect a price concession.

And we generally book airfare the day it is released (330 to 365 days out, depending on airline) so we are likely more sorted out in advance than anyone.  And COVID issues have been with us for over 2 years, so we are no stranger to changes and cancellations, long before these political tensions.

Plus, it can happen on any line, frankly.  Of the 12 cruises that we have had cancelled or severely impacted, they have been with NCL, Azamara, Celebrity, Princess and HAL. So not sure there is a safe harbor if you boot Azamara out of the equation. 

[blag]

4 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

Not blaming you at all, just questioning your expectation that Azamara should be on the hook for what you booked.  I told you that I felt it may be reasonable to expect a price concession.

And we generally book airfare the day it is released (330 to 365 days out, depending on airline) so we are likely more sorted out in advance than anyone.  And COVID issues have been with us for over 2 years, so we are no stranger to changes and cancellations, long before these political tensions.

Plus, it can happen on any line, frankly.  Of the 12 cruises that we have had cancelled or severely impacted, they have been with NCL, Azamara, Celebrity, Princess and HAL. So not sure there is a safe harbor if you boot Azamara out of the equation. 

You are probably right as to alternatives, but I feel quite aggrieved. My success rate with Azamara is disappointing, to say the least.

But, in their defence, on the first occasion they completely altered an itinerary, they met my out-of-pocket expenses to some degree. This time nothing... 

As for not booking non-refundable etc. hotels and flights etc., on this occasion I did not really have much in the way of viable alternatives.

I was thinking maybe of not losing too much by using at least the outward flight to Istanbul and then transferring to a Danube River cruise out of Bucharest, but after (brief) research the stuff that appeals doesn't have suitable accommodation!

Maybe my visit to Turkish Airlines office tomorrow may turn out to be of benefit, but my experience so far with this airline leads to me believe otherwise. 

[ECCruise]

3 minutes ago, blag said:

 

Maybe my visit to Turkish Airlines office tomorrow may turn out to be of benefit, but my experience so far with this airline leads to me believe otherwise. 

Good luck tomorrow.  Big advantage is you are in NY and can go personally.

[NC&KY]

5 hours ago, ECCruise said:

We book nothing non-refundable or non-changeable in this environment and we have dozens of flights and lodgings booked for the next 18 months or so. Just way too risky.

Same here except, if there are no other choices, I will make such a booking but immediately cover it with travel insurance.

[blag]

1 minute ago, NC&KY said:

Same here except, if there are no other choices, I will make such a booking but immediately cover it with travel insurance.

But, as I keep saying: travel insurance does not cover you if you decide to cancel. In this case, insurers will rule any cancellation as your choice, and not covered.

 

Believe me, I know.

Azamara put us in this position once before. As a consequence we were forced (in order to enjoy almost the same itinerary for the same dates) to take a cruise with Princess, which we did not enjoy, or to sacrifice several £000's. 

[Host Jazzbeau]

Granted, Turkish Airlines seems to have to only non-stops between Istanbul and NYC.  But I would never book on Turkish.  A 1-stop on a US airline with policies like Delta's"

is worth the extra time over the Turkish non-stop IMHO.  Then you wouldn't be facing this problem.

[blag]

2 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Granted, Turkish Airlines seems to have to only non-stops between Istanbul and NYC.  But I would never book on Turkish.  A 1-stop on a US airline with policies like Delta's"

is worth the extra time over the Turkish non-stop IMHO.  Then you wouldn't be facing this problem.

That is your choice. I try to fly non-stop whenever I can.

But in any case my flights are not from and to the USA! I happen to be in NYC at the moment. 

[blag]

On 3/22/2022 at 5:58 PM, ECCruise said:

Good luck tomorrow.  Big advantage is you are in NY and can go personally.

Well, I contacted Turkish Airlines on their freephone number. I spoke at length with an agent (not the sharpest tool in the box) who eventually understood what I wanted to do, and proceeded to tell me (to my surprise and delight) that my cancellation would be subject to deductions of about £400 total for administrative reasons. But, when he tried to 'process' the refund of the balance, he was unable to complete the operation. He advised me that I would be able to do this at the New York office located in the Empire State building on 5th Avenue. 

I went down there yesterday, was challenged on entry to the building, and at the reception lobby was confronted by the security operatives for the Empire State. One phoned the Airline's office and told me that there was noone in the Airline's office, and that the number he had called was an external number. He then handed me a printed sheet, prepared by Turkish Airlines, which stated that I should go to JFK for Customer Services!

I rang the airline again last night, and for the first time ever spoke to someone there with a functioning brain. This agent confirmed that my tickets are non-refundable, and a journey to JFK would have been futile. Thank goodness: I had decided not to go to JFK. 

I have cancelled the Cruise. Let's see how long it takes for Azamara to process refund. 

My insurers have confirmed that the airline tickets are NOT covered, and although Azamara did offer me an opportunity to shift to the similar cruise for July 31 2023 (albeit Istanbul to Athens), the disembarkation date on that one leaves things too close to an annual commitment! 

[ECCruise]

9 minutes ago, blag said:

 

My insurers have confirmed that the airline tickets are NOT covered, and although Azamara did offer me an opportunity to shift to the similar cruise for July 31 2023 (albeit Istanbul to Athens), the disembarkation date on that one leaves things too close to an annual commitment! 

Well you sure can't be faulted for trying!  Glad you didn't make the trek out to JFK to find that they were going to stonewall you.

I guess there was no option for a voucher?  We've gone that route when the cancellation costs were too onerous. 

[Riocca]

Blag, even if Azamara had cancelled the cruise you probably would have fallen into the same hole we fell into at the beginning of covid. Our cruise was round trip Dubai and I had booked non refundable BA flights, due to Covid the cruise was cancelled and I received a refund and FCC from Azamara. 
Our travel insurer, through our Bank and one of the biggest in Europe, said it made no difference that the cruise was cancelled because we had booked all the elements individually. If BA had cancelled the outbound flight they would pay out, of course the flight wasn’t cancelled and we had to swallow the cost, even though the subsequent return flight was cancelled.

At that time Azamara as part of RCG were offering up to $500 in flight change fees but that didn’t really help.

The pandemic has changed our mindset and it’s going to be a long while before we book anything non refundable again, even though the costs will be higher.

[blag]

7 minutes ago, Riocca said:

Blag, even if Azamara had cancelled the cruise you probably would have fallen into the same hole we fell into at the beginning of covid. Our cruise was round trip Dubai and I had booked non refundable BA flights, due to Covid the cruise was cancelled and I received a refund and FCC from Azamara. 
Our travel insurer, through our Bank and one of the biggest in Europe, said it made no difference that the cruise was cancelled because we had booked all the elements individually. If BA had cancelled the outbound flight they would pay out, of course the flight wasn’t cancelled and we had to swallow the cost, even though the subsequent return flight was cancelled.

At that time Azamara as part of RCG were offering up to $500 in flight change fees but that didn’t really help.

The pandemic has changed our mindset and it’s going to be a long while before we book anything non refundable again, even though the costs will be higher.

Well, $500 is better than, as they say, a poke in the eye with burnt stick!

[blag]

21 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

Well you sure can't be faulted for trying!  Glad you didn't make the trek out to JFK to find that they were going to stonewall you.

I guess there was no option for a voucher?  We've gone that route when the cancellation costs were too onerous. 

I could convert the ticket to an open ticket, but I can't see myself having the occasion to use it. Or, as the helpful agent said last night, hope that our booked flights are delayed or cancelled and get a refund. That latter option sounds too risky. 

What I might do is change the tickets and use Istanbul as a transit or stopover for an alternative journey, because Turkish don't seem to fly from Italy to anywhere but Istanbul. I was advised by the intelligent agent that there is no penalty (or fee) for changing the ticket, but price differentials may apply, but no refunds, even if I elect to fly economy or a less expensive date/time/route!

[AJCM]

Since the pandemic Azamara has delivered either 100% refund or 125% FCC, in a financial environment of nil revenue. Many of us took the gamble that Azamara would survive and conditions would change enabling use of the FCC before Azamara died due to insolvency. This has been at risk of potentially permanently  losing all the funds we had invested back in 2019 i.e. buyer beware.

 

Ever since Putin attacked the Crimea, Black Sea cruises have been buyer beware; albeit that once the cruise lines recommenced booking BS cruises, guests would have been booking in the confidence that the cruise would go ahead. Putin has ensured this is now impossible.

 

People who booked have been prepared to pay the very high cost of a BS cruise. They haven’t lost a single cent because of the necessarily changed itineraries. Many want a partial refund for what they consider “non premium”. If I’ve got it right, these people are either happy to do the new cruise if it’s cheaper or don’t want to do the cruise because flights, etc are booked, paid for and non cancellable.

 

If the pandemic had not occurred I’d have some sympathy. Can’t say I feel the same about first world problems any more. Just do your best to actually enjoy what is beyond the reach of many people.

[Grandma Cruising]

14 hours ago, blag said:

I could convert the ticket to an open ticket, but I can't see myself having the occasion to use it. Or, as the helpful agent said last night, hope that our booked flights are delayed or cancelled and get a refund. That latter option sounds too risky. 

What I might do is change the tickets and use Istanbul as a transit or stopover for an alternative journey, because Turkish don't seem to fly from Italy to anywhere but Istanbul. I was advised by the intelligent agent that there is no penalty (or fee) for changing the ticket, but price differentials may apply, but no refunds, even if I elect to fly economy or a less expensive date/time/route!

It is risky to wait and see if flights get changed so you can cancel & get a refund, but it does happen more nowadays. Our BA flight back from Singapore last year was consolidated with another flight - the change was only about half an hour, but that gave us the option to cancel and get a full refund, which we did. Presumably you can change it to an open ticket anytime, so you could wait until closer to do so.

[Janet&Carl]

Well I bit the bullet and cancelled our revised BS cruise that changed into a Greece / Turkey cruise.  We will now be travelling on a Spain intensive for the same length (12 days) but much cheaper.  Happy with that as it goes up the river to Seville and we want to go back to Seville. The Azamara agent on the phone was reluctant to refund !! I couldnt believe why - he said it was because we had already accepted the changes.  When I asked who and when because I hadnt accepted the changes.  Back in February !!! well the cruise was changed last week on the 19th so I asked him to check.  He came back with the ability to change our cruise to the Spain intensive or give us a full refund.  I lost the $1000 obc because that was no longer the promotion.  But happier with the ports we are now doing.