Reduced capacity?

[sippican]

19 hours ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

HaHa   You seem to be forgetting that testing isn't convenient for some people.

 

Getting covid can be much more of an "inconvenience" for some!

 

[LGW59]

2 minutes ago, sippican said:

 

Getting covid can be much more of an "inconvenience" for some!

 

As can the flu or strep throat 

[sippican]

As someone who is no longer a youngster, during my entire life I've never known anyone who has died from the flu or strep throat, or had lingering health impact. Sadly, that is not true of covid. We know five who are suffering from long covid, and lost our best friend to the virus. DH is a cancer patient so perhaps we are more anxious of the virus than the flu or strep. You are lucky indeed. 

[LGW59]

30 minutes ago, sippican said:

As someone who is no longer a youngster, during my entire life I've never known anyone who has died from the flu or strep throat, or had lingering health impact. Sadly, that is not true of covid. We know five who are suffering from long covid, and lost our best friend to the virus. DH is a cancer patient so perhaps we are more anxious of the virus than the flu or strep. You are lucky indeed. 

Well the 60,000 or so who die of flu each year may not have known you or me, but they were known to someone.  I don’t know anyone who died from Covid, but I still know that they did.  I too am a cancer patient, and yes I am still blessed indeed.  I hope your wife recovers and stays well.

[Jim_Iain]

On 6/10/2022 at 11:40 AM, 5:00_Somewhere said:

We just made final payment for a September cruise on the Summit. We were expecting it to be closer to capacity, and were told by our CVP that it's currently at approximately 80%. We will continue to wear masks in crowded indoor spaces and avoid elevators whenever possible, wearing masks when not. I hope you're able to enjoy your cruise. I expect this to be the NEW new normal. 

We are on the 3 cruises on Summit departing in August and as of this morning all 3 cruises are sold out.   What that equates to as number of passengers I have no idea as the first 2 are TA's to Iceland and with it being school vacation in the U.S. could be up there.

[Jim_Iain]

1 hour ago, sippican said:

As someone who is no longer a youngster, during my entire life I've never known anyone who has died from the flu or strep throat, or had lingering health impact. Sadly, that is not true of covid. We know five who are suffering from long covid, and lost our best friend to the virus. DH is a cancer patient so perhaps we are more anxious of the virus than the flu or strep. You are lucky indeed. 

 

While I can understand your premise and agree I am more cautious of Covid (even after catching it) .   In the 2019-2020 flu season 20,000 died of Flu with about 40% of those being under 65.   Also a total of 380,000 were hospitalized.

 

CDC publishes some interesting annual statistics

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html

Edited June 12, 2022 by Jim_Iain

[5:00_Somewhere]

33 minutes ago, Jim_Iain said:

We are on the 3 cruises on Summit departing in August and as of this morning all 3 cruises are sold out.   What that equates to as number of passengers I have no idea as the first 2 are TA's to Iceland and with it being school vacation in the U.S. could be up there.

 

Ours actually appears to be "sold out", as well, as it no longer appears on the Celebrity website, so I don't know if they are reserving 20% of the cabins, or if our CVP's information is not completely accurate ... or a combination of the two. 

[Jim_Iain]

1 minute ago, 5:00_Somewhere said:

 

Ours actually appears to be "sold out", as well, as it no longer appears on the Celebrity website, so I don't know if they are reserving 20% of the cabins, or if our CVP's information is not completely accurate ... or a combination of the two. 

i think it pretty accurate depending on when you cruise.  The one thing that is unclear is if they are still reserving a certain number of cabins for Isolation for either new crew or sick passengers.    Recently is seems that they are allowing positive cruisers to isolate in their original rooms but have offered negative spouses a different cabin.  

 

Sometimes Celebrity gives TA's blocks of cabins but if unsold they are returned to inventory at about 60 days.    On our cruise -  I bookmarked the Select a Category Screen page and check regularly, last week one of the cruises had 4 cabins available and they all disappeared by this weekend.   On the other one a CS popped up and was gone again within hours.

[mk960072]

We sailed Celebrity twice and were fortunate to sailed with less than 50% capacity both times.  Sailing with fewer people was nice but I agree with others who stated the cruise line has to get back to 100% to stay in business.  What I wont like is after I paid for a beverage package at 100% of the cost and then the bars dont have liquor.  If the bars are running out of items then Celebrity needs to figure out a solution because people who pay the full cost for the package expect to get the drinks they desire.  

 

Which then brings up the question of, sail at 100% and with staff and supply shortages run the risk of customers being disappointed that they waited in long lines for food, certain liquors ran out, etc and have bad customer service reviews or sail at 100% and expect a forgiving public?   Not an easy answer for the cruise industry currently.   

[sunlover33]

4 hours ago, Mark_T said:

It is the assumption that you will find 'most' of the infected people that seems ill-founded, when it is likely that most of those infected will have become so during their travel to the ship and so will not be picked up with that test.

 

It just feels like if the test is worth doing 2 days before boarding because of the people it would detect, then it is worth doing it again 2 days after boarding perhaps?

 

So why do one but not the other, if the aim is to detect those who are positive?

 

It looks like Viking have taken the next step and stopped pre-cruise testing for non-US departures, and will deal with those presenting with symptoms or positive tests as they occur during the cruise.

 

It will be interesting to see if other lines follow...

 

 

Absolutely agree, you just saved me from replying to I pee. I would be an interesting comparison to see how many people are positive in the pre cruise test opposed to mid or end of cruise test. 

[Ipeeinthepools]

5 hours ago, Mark_T said:

It is the assumption that you will find 'most' of the infected people that seems ill-founded, when it is likely that most of those infected will have become so during their travel to the ship and so will not be picked up with that test.

 

It just feels like if the test is worth doing 2 days before boarding because of the people it would detect, then it is worth doing it again 2 days after boarding perhaps?

 

So why do one but not the other, if the aim is to detect those who are positive?

 

It looks like Viking have taken the next step and stopped pre-cruise testing for non-US departures, and will deal with those presenting with symptoms or positive tests as they occur during the cruise.

 

It will be interesting to see if other lines follow...

 

 

 

Sure there might be other things that can be done to protect people on-board but why stop something that is finding a lot of people?   Isn't it a good thing to keep infected people off the ship?

[Mark_T]

2 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

Sure there might be other things that can be done to protect people on-board but why stop something that is finding a lot of people?   Isn't it a good thing to keep infected people off the ship?

Again though, we don't know that it is finding 'a lot of people'...

 

As per my post in a different thread, Viking have gone from testing pre and daily after boarding, to dropping all testing where it is not mandated by the port, if anyone has the data to determine how useful the testing has been it would be them I'd have thought...

[mnocket]

On 6/11/2022 at 1:53 PM, Denny01 said:

Maybe you should focus on your issues. I’ve cruised and am cruising because vaccinations are required, testing is done prior. 
 

and the post about being required to be tested because you were in a table near someone who tested positive isn’t how contact testing is being done. 
 

enough overblown. 
 

den

So it seems you may soon be the one who has to stop cruising and I doubt cruise lines will be using your suggested ad.

 

Cruise Lines Call for CDC to Drop Covid Testing

 

[Ipeeinthepools]

1 minute ago, Mark_T said:

Again though, we don't know that it is finding 'a lot of people'...

 

As per my post in a different thread, Viking have gone from testing pre and daily after boarding, to dropping all testing where it is not mandated by the port, if anyone has the data to determine how useful the testing has been it would be them I'd have thought...

 

So you think that people decided to cancel their cruise in the last couple of days before the cruise is just to exercise the Cruise With Confidence Guarantee even if they didn't have Covid?   Doubt it.  I don't understand the stressful argument.  Would you really rather get on a ship while you're infected with Covid?  Testing is one way to minimize you getting on the ship with Covid.  Getting Covid is really the stress not testing.  If you want to minimize stress, test yourself every couple of days before you need to test to get on the ship.  More information is always better.

[Mark_T]

13 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

So you think that people decided to cancel their cruise in the last couple of days before the cruise is just to exercise the Cruise With Confidence Guarantee even if they didn't have Covid?

Frankly, yes, there are some doing just that, you see them post on here that they are concerned about cruising with the ships at higher capacity and with some of their party with compromised health, for example, and until recently at least, many were very worried about the need to test to fly home to the US...

 

... but the point I've been making through this scattered debate, is that if you really believe that the test is weeding out a lot of positive travelers then you should also want those tests to continue throughout the cruise as it makes no sense at all to take any degree of confidence from one test 2 days before departure as indicating anything particularly useful about the covid status of the passengers onboard.

 

You have to assume that your fellow passengers, and of course yourself, have potentially been exposed during travel to the port, and once the cruise is in progress, every time people go ashore the risk is there once more...

 

Right now it would be unwise for anyone to believe that cruising is covid risk-free no matter what the testing regime, we each have to decide on our own level of risk tolerance and behave accordingly.

[sunlover33]

28 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

Sure there might be other things that can be done to protect people on-board but why stop something that is finding a lot of people?   Isn't it a good thing to keep infected people off the ship?

Where is your evidence that pre cruise testing is finding “a lot of people”? If you consider  the majority of people will test 48 hours pre cruise and then for the next 48 hours mix with thousands of strangers at airports  and on the airplane and then get in the ship confidant they are safe as they tested negative 48 hours pre cruise. How many of these passengers   are already incubating and then go on to develop covid? They may or may not be symptomatic, but either way they have spread the infection before they could be re tested if they even report any symptoms. Pre cruise testing in isolation is ineffective unless you follow up with mass testing 2-3 days in to the cruise. The cruise companies will not release this information, so no one knows how effective or not  it may be, but it will lull people into a false sense of security. Either make testing effective or scrap it altogether. 

[Ipeeinthepools]

2 minutes ago, Mark_T said:

Frankly, yes, there are some doing just that, you see them post on here that they are concerned about cruising with the ships at higher capacity and with some of their party with compromised health, for example, and until recently at least, many were very worried about the need to test to fly home to the US...

 

... but the point I've been making through this scattered debate, is that if you really believe that the test is weeding out a lot of positive travelers then you should also want those tests to continue throughout the cruise as it makes no sense at all to take any degree of confidence from one test 2 days before departure as indicating anything particularly useful about the covid status of the passengers onboard.

 

You have to assume that your fellow passengers, and of course yourself, have potentially been exposed during travel to the port, and once the cruise is in progress, every time people go ashore the risk is there once more...

 

Right now it would be unwise for anyone to believe that cruising is covid risk-free no matter what the testing regime, we each have to decide on our own level of risk tolerance and behave accordingly.

 

No one is saying that testing makes cruising risk free of catching Covid.  Pre-boarding testing is one way to minimize the risk of having people board the ship with Covid.  Isn't that a good thing?  BTW, that was in part of my post that you chose not to quote.

[Mark_T]

2 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

No one is saying that testing makes cruising risk free of catching Covid.  Pre-boarding testing is one way to minimize the risk of having people board the ship with Covid.  Isn't that a good thing?  BTW, that was in part of my post that you chose not to quote.

I assume people are capable of reading previous posts in their entirety so I do not quote everything each time as it tends to clutter up the thread, but to answer that particular point...

 

No, pre-boarding testing does not 'minimize' anything, it will reduce the number of those who tested positive up to 2 days earlier boarding, but it is very misleading to suggest that it could ever 'minimize the risk of having people board the ship with covid'.

 

Language like this gives false confidence to others and may even encourage them to engage in more risky behavior onboard because they believe they have had their risks 'minimized' by such a test.

 

Viking on the other-hand was doing its best to minimize the risks with continued daily testing, if the results of that testing was delivering a worthwhile benefit don't you think they would have been using that as a competitive safety message? ... instead they have now ceased all testing where not port mandated.

[Ipeeinthepools]

15 minutes ago, Mark_T said:

I assume people are capable of reading previous posts in their entirety so I do not quote everything each time as it tends to clutter up the thread, but to answer that particular point...

 

No, pre-boarding testing does not 'minimize' anything, it will reduce the number of those who tested positive up to 2 days earlier boarding, but it is very misleading to suggest that it could ever 'minimize the risk of having people board the ship with covid'.

 

Language like this gives false confidence to others and may even encourage them to engage in more risky behavior onboard because they believe they have had their risks 'minimized' by such a test.

 

Viking on the other-hand was doing its best to minimize the risks with continued daily testing, if the results of that testing was delivering a worthwhile benefit don't you think they would have been using that as a competitive safety message? ... instead they have now ceased all testing where not port mandated.

 

Maybe you should sail on Viking.  I'm not arguing against additional testing, but there just isn't a good reason to eliminate pre-boarding testing.  Period.

[Ipeeinthepools]

50 minutes ago, sunlover33 said:

Where is your evidence that pre cruise testing is finding “a lot of people”? If you consider  the majority of people will test 48 hours pre cruise and then for the next 48 hours mix with thousands of strangers at airports  and on the airplane and then get in the ship confidant they are safe as they tested negative 48 hours pre cruise. How many of these passengers   are already incubating and then go on to develop covid? They may or may not be symptomatic, but either way they have spread the infection before they could be re tested if they even report any symptoms. Pre cruise testing in isolation is ineffective unless you follow up with mass testing 2-3 days in to the cruise. The cruise companies will not release this information, so no one knows how effective or not  it may be, but it will lull people into a false sense of security. Either make testing effective or scrap it altogether. 

 

Your correct, there are lot's of other ways people could be infected with Covid, but pre-cruise testing will catch a lot.  I hope they continue to test pre-cruise.  There really isn't a good reason to eliminate it.

[Mark_T]

1 hour ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

Maybe you should sail on Viking.  I'm not arguing against additional testing, but there just isn't a good reason to eliminate pre-boarding testing.  Period.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'll stick with Celebrity, they are certainly trying to head in the right direction it seems...

 

https://www.thestreet.com/investing/cruise-lines-call-for-cdc-to-change-covid-testing-policy

 

 

[Whinenowine]

On 6/11/2022 at 6:11 PM, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

I've never seen any of the pools filled to capacity.  There always seems to be plenty of space in the pool when I hop in.

 

Ipeeinthepools--Maybe they think your name is factually correct......     🙂

 

[capecodmercury]

I'm sailing on Summit this fall and I expect that I probably have at least a 10% chance of testing positive during or after my cruise.  But I am fully vaxed and boosted and willing to take that chance.

 

That being said, while pre cruise testing doesn't totally get rid of the risk, I have to assume it is reducing it. If 1 to 2% of people test positive in a pre cruise test, that is 20 to 40 covid infectious people who will potentially not be on board (on a full M class ship).

 

If there is anything these last few years has taught me, it is that there are far too many people out the thinking only about themselves and not caring about the affect of their actions on the rest of us. 

[Redtravel]

Off Summit today.  Just finished reading the comments on this thread. On ship,  getting internet connection was extremely slow or no service.  Yesterday when I went to Guest Services to cash out my refundable OBC, I asked about capacity. I was told that were 2300 guests on the ship and full capacity was 2500 guests.  

[mahdnc]

On 6/10/2022 at 9:37 AM, Redtravel said:

On Summit.  I am shocked at the crowds.  Reduced capacity?  No way!  Even though there are signs for distancing and capacity, people jam together.  Pool sign capacity 10…counted 25.    Often fully elevators as people push into them.  Reminds me of filling a phone booth as a college prank. Table for 2?  Almost impossible. Unrelated guests sharing.  When I booked I believed the info about safety and Covid protocols. The only place you must wear a mask is in the show lounge or casino.  
All In isn’t.  WiFi basic often doesn’t connect.  Using my elite plus minutes to connect.   Drinks?  Lots of water. Liquor choices….ran out of many.  

 

I am sorry to read all this.  Coincidentally my TA was on your sailing and she seemed to be happy with the cruise although that is a very general statement.

 

David