Costa By Carnival. Adults-Only Brand?

[CruisingWalter]

30 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

I think it is an exageration too. I don't know about Carnival but on Casino workers are usually on contract with a casino company not working for the cruise line. Same with the workers in shops. Other workers like servers are on contract for that. I think the workers for childrens activities would be hired for that.

 

On Royal Caribbean they are employees of the cruise line, per Chris Wong, one of the more prominent cruise ship crew vloggers. 

[BlerkOne]

8 hours ago, Itried4498 said:

That’s a de facto blog posting that paints a rosy picture of the industry using a lot of quotes but without a lot of facts.  Wall Street clearly feels differently, and investors (as a whole) aren’t bias, they just want to make money.  

I basically lump all bloggers, vloggers, and similar into the National Inquirer category. They derive income from their "product" and try to out scoop/sensationalize/whatever the competition.

 

They are not prophets.

[BearsBeets]

I would love an adults-only cruise. I like having mature, upscale, or relaxing adult fun but I like rock walls, water parks, go-karts & ropes courses too! Surely the lines would be shorter on kid-free cruise. And maybe more adults will actually do these activities because there won't be kids hogging them all day.

17 hours ago, Itried4498 said:

 

If Carnival designated specific itineraries as adults only, kids' areas would become dead space.  If Carnival designated a specific ship to perform adults only itineraries, they could reimagine the kids' areas.  If word spread that the kids clubs were becoming venues where adults could have some fun ( 😉 ) on adults-only cruises, it'd do more harm than it's worth...

Not sure about the little kiddie clubs but Club 02 could definitely be used for adults as another nightclub/lounge/game room 

[BlerkOne]

5 hours ago, WheresWalter said:

 

All cruise staff are trained for multiple positions on the ship specifically to BE interchangeable. If you watch any of the crew members vlogs on YouTube, it's interesting to see just how many roles some of these folks fill. Casino dealer, server, entertainment staff, excursion host, etc...You can see it for yourself on pretty much every cruise when you'll see the same person as a barista, server, restaurant host and sometimes leading an excursion or game. We've seen this multiple times, especially on the smaller ships.

 

With limited crew resources onboard a ship, it's imperative each person can assume 3 or more roles onboard the ship to cover for sick or injured crewmembers or just to help with supply and demand. Some venues are shut down when they're slow and staff reassigned to other areas. 

 

The children's area staff is primarily entertaining the kids, which is why it's a natural switch of those folks over to entertainment and cruise director staff. 

I was reading yesterday about a 2 hour wait to be seated for dinner on Celebrity Infinity. Staff shortages so bad spa workers are helping in the dining room. Training and experience are also not interchangeable.

 

One thing some people don't like about Carnival is the similarity between so many ships, but at least to staff, that can be a good thing, if management tries to shove square pegs into round holes. I see bar tenders moving to other bars, a server in the MDR serving dessert on Lido. Jobs can be just jobs to some, a passion for others. Stress is high enough among overworked employees.

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

 I think the workers for childrens activities would be hired for that.

I also think they would apply for specifically for that. They may be part of the entertainment staff, but they aren't going to get up onstage and sing and dance for adults.

[sanmarcosman]

21 hours ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

If Carnival wasn't printing money from the casino profits then why on God's green earth would there be the plethora of offers given to gamblers?

The casinos are owned and operated by a concession company that shares a rake of the profits with Carnival. The concessionaire pays Carnival for the cabins and other perks such as comp meals, drinks and cabin amenities offered to the players.

Edited June 27, 2022 by sanmarcosman

[crewsweeper]

While I wouldn't mind doing an adult only cruise to reasonably decent ports (Virgin mainly does the Bahamas, of which I'm not a big fan),  I rather doubt Carnival or any line could get mega ship filled with enough capacity to warrant an adult only cruise. 

[Itried4498]

45 minutes ago, sanmarcosman said:

The casinos are owned and operated by a concession company that shares a rake of the profits with Carnival. The concessionaire pays Carnival for the cabins and other perks such as comp meals, drinks and cabin amenities offered to the players.

 

I'm pretty certain the casinos are owned and operated by Carnival.  I don't know the ownership structure -- it could be through a separate entity -- but I'm pretty certain that ultimate ownership leads to Carnival.  Carnival's corporate website has oodles of press releases, including one published in 2019 promoting the explosive growth in gaming revenues after it invested heavily in human resources a decade earlier by hiring away a bunch of management/marketing veterans from Caesars and elsewhere.  Among other "evidence," the Carnival Player's Club website notes that the Club is property of Carnival Corporation.

[cruisingguy007]

Sounds like a good idea in theory but when you look at all the facts and options currently available, it points to a bad idea, business wise. It sounds more like some want a cheap adult cruise experience without realizing that Carnival has lower fares precisely because they cater to families and fill ships. As previously mentioned, there are already plenty of adult "mostly" cruises and "upscale" (I hate that word but it's apt) cruises that one can choose but the price points are not as attractive. 

 

Then there is the matter of what an "adult cruise" would look like. Based on the current options, I would think it a disaster for any of the current products to try and emulate Virgin cruises. Not everyone appreciates blaring techno, overt sexual innuendo, PDA's and the overall youth orientated hipster vibe. Great when you're 20-30 years old but not so much when you're 40+. Some folks may try it once/twice but building a sustained customer base to fill ships could be challenging as Virgin has found out. The majority of folks who can cruise year round are retired folks and/or wealthy folks and those folks have already been catered to. The Virgin experience would work year round if they could deploy ships for short weekend cruises (Friday-Sun). That would be their target market and party/club folks would come out year round.

 

Bottom line, I don't see Carnival shackling themselves in this fashion. It could also drive folks to their competition if they use the regular route ships for special adult only trips and a lot of families have time off and availability to cruise during those times. I could see them, if logistics will bare it out, using some smaller ships in major cruise ports, and doing weekend booze cruise trips to cater to a younger demographic, essentially turning these ships into floating nightclubs from Friday night until Sunday evening. As it is, their product serves everyone already, reducing customer pools isn't a smart business decision and I just don't see them doing that, especially in the current environment. Recreating the wheel has too many risks, billionaires can throw good money after bad but Carnival is hardly in any position to compete with that, nor should they, shareholder expect fiduciary accountability.     

[sanmarcosman]

46 minutes ago, Itried4498 said:

 

I'm pretty certain the casinos are owned and operated by Carnival.  I don't know the ownership structure -- it could be through a separate entity -- but I'm pretty certain that ultimate ownership leads to Carnival.  Carnival's corporate website has oodles of press releases, including one published in 2019 promoting the explosive growth in gaming revenues after it invested heavily in human resources a decade earlier by hiring away a bunch of management/marketing veterans from Caesars and elsewhere.  Among other "evidence," the Carnival Player's Club website notes that the Club is property of Carnival Corporation.

The Carnival Player's Club site is copyrighted by and for Carnival. The entertainment licensee for the casino is owned, operated and managed by the concession holder.

[EngIceDave]

Cross branding or having outright adults only cruises makes a lot of sense considering the climate.

Virgin and others are working that angle with some success.

It's an easy demo to target and if it doesn't work, your change it.

[Itried4498]

38 minutes ago, sanmarcosman said:

The Carnival Player's Club site is copyrighted by and for Carnival. The entertainment licensee for the casino is owned, operated and managed by the concession holder.

 

Again, all the evidence points toward the casino being operated in-house (perhaps through a wholly owned subsidiary). 

 

-Carnival Player's Club website notes that the Club is owned and operated by Carnival Corporation.

 

-The 2019 press release I mentioned earlier name drops the execs Carnival Corporation hired to manage the casino marketing & operations.  I looked up a few on LinkedIn, and all list Carnival Corporation as their employer.

 

-A press release from 2017 discuss the investment Carnival Corporation has made in purchasing the latest & greatest slot machines.  A Press release from 2008 discusses Carnival Corporation's trial into electronic gaming tables (never saw this, so probably didn't last).

 

-A press release from earlier this year discusses Carnival's partnership with BetMGM to offer sports betting & "igaming" on its domestic itineraries.  No doubt a third party would be happy with the igaming arrangement

 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Itried4498

[BlerkOne]

Carnival "owns" the onboard shops, but outsources every thing else about them.

[Eli_6]

I had the same thought process that you did.  

[Charles4515]

1 hour ago, cruisingguy007 said:

The Virgin experience would work year round if they could deploy ships for short weekend cruises (Friday-Sun). That would be their target market and party/club folks would come out year round.

 

I looked at the Vigin website for the first time and all I saw were 4 or 5 day cruises. Possibly istargeting  party/club folks as they were touting a drink deal that was running up a tab.

[pc_load_letter]

1 hour ago, EngIceDave said:

Virgin and others are working that angle with some success.

 

I would debate "success".

[EngIceDave]

Just now, pc_load_letter said:

 

I would debate "success".

Why I added "some" success

[pc_load_letter]

1 minute ago, EngIceDave said:

Why I added "some" success

 

Sure. And no doubt Virgin is doing some things cool and perhaps "revolutionary".

 

[Itried4498]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

Carnival "owns" the onboard shops, but outsources every thing else about them.

 

There's a difference between outsourcing and hiring a third party to manage and/or assist with managing.  

 

It does not appear the casino is outsourced: the casino employees (off the ship - executive management, marketing, etc. & on the ship) work for Carnival (Corporation).  The player's club is owned and operated by Carnival.  The slot machines are owned by Carnival.  Several years ago, Carnival invited its top slot players to a slot tournament held on one of its Princess-branded cruises.  The slot tournament was managed by a company that oodles of casinos around the country use to manage similar events.  

 

It appears Carnival hires third parties to manage some aspects of its casino operations, and pays these companies either a fee and/or commission.  But Carnival does not outsource its casino operations in exchange for a commission, as the OP suggested. 

[Lane Hog]

13 hours ago, WheresWalter said:

For the sake this scenario, let's say Carnival offered this as an Adults-Only sailing and we replace those 870 kids with 870 adults. Adults who can purchase drink packages, who can purchase alcohol, who can purchase specialty meals, who can purchase photo packages, who can purchase duty free liquor and other higher ticket items in the shops, who can purchase excursions and upsells both on the ship and on land, who can play in the casino, who can purchase spa treatments and other things I'm certainly forgetting. 

 

In this 'real-life' scenario for this sailing, do you believe Carnival would make more revenue from the 870 kids or the 870 adults despite the kids club areas 'going dark?'  Honest question I'm posing to everyone here.

 

Having a decent idea of the profit margins for all the things I mentioned that the adults can purchase, I would have to believe Carnival would easily surpass, if not double the revenue of the 870 kids by replacing them with adults.

Are there somehow 435 empty cabins on that sailing?.... 

You'll never have a 1:1 replacement of kids to adults because those 870 kids are almost always in cabins with their parents or grandparents....

I seriously doubt anyone looking to do a real adult cruising experience is going to be looking to double up with another couple in the same cabin...

Edited June 28, 2022 by Lane Hog

[CoasterGuy]

I also noticed these two things and had the exact same thought, wondering if there is some correlation there. 

 

I agree it would make more sense to try childfree cruising with an alt brand, than have ships within the existing brand specified for it. My hope would be that the VIFP program would crossover between the two brands. 

[cruisingguy007]

30 minutes ago, Lane Hog said:

Are there somehow 435 empty cabins on that sailing?.... 

You'll never have a 1:1 replacement of kids to adults because those 870 kids are almost always in cabins with their parents or grandparents....

I seriously doubt anyone looking to do a real adult cruising experience is going to be looking to double up with another couple in the same cabin...

 

Exactly. Kids also pay cruise fares, port taxes, gratuities, excursion costs, up charge dining, candy shop and other sundries. They also eat much less. Many also bring additional family/friends. That's on top of what parents pay. Removing that bonus spend/benefit needs to be made up for somewhere else. There is a reason it costs more to sail on lines that are "adult mostly". Carnival serves the most passengers and broadest market (every-man/every-woman cruise line). It's akin to telling Coca Cola or KFC to change their recipes because someone wants to try something new. Carnival isn't Carnival by accident or for lack of understanding market conditions and their customer base.       

[CruizinSusan70]

Since the two new Costa by Carnival ships are additions to the fleet, making the first one based in NYC next spring adults only would not upset the cart by having to make any changes to the current Carnival fleet and their corresponding itineraries.  They could use it as a trial for X amount of months and if it's successful, possibly extend it to the ship that will be based out of Long beach in 2024.  This would be the easiest streamlined method and would not necessitate any changes in the fleet from turning any sailings or ships from family to adults only.  If Carnival was ever going to do something like this, the addition of these two ships would give them the opportunity to show the bean counters and the beards if an adults only ship would be a positive addition to the fleet.

[CruisingWalter]

15 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

I looked at the Vigin website for the first time and all I saw were 4 or 5 day cruises. Possibly istargeting  party/club folks as they were touting a drink deal that was running up a tab.

 

In the US they are only running 4 and 5 day cruises at the moment. 7 day Caribbean cruises will be added when Valiant Lady comes over for the winter season. If you search December - March you'll see the itineraries. We are on the 5 day Dominican Daze sailing in a few weeks. Valiant Lady is running 7 day itineraries in the Med right now. 

[CruisingWalter]

14 hours ago, pc_load_letter said:

 

I would debate "success".

 

Ships have to run about 35% capacity to break even. Virgin has had more success out of the gate in Europe than in the US, but the US market is slowly starting to catch up. It's looking like we'll have around 1500+ on our sailing in a few weeks for a ship that maxes out at 2770.

 

We're also noticing in the Virgin Cruise Critic and some private Facebook groups that some folks are already taking their 2nd, 3rd and 4th cruises on Scarlet. Folks who are squarely NOT in the original targeted demographic, but more like us. 50+ seasoned cruisers. And they're singing the praises of the experience. As we all know, that's what it takes much more than any advertising to get folks to try a new cruise line. Word of mouth. I have no idea if we'll like it, but I'm definitely looking forward to seeing what it's all about.

 

That being said, I would be all over an adults-only experience on Carnival, especially a Vista class or the new Xcel class.