Old locks - which lines/ships?

[Dinah1230]

We’d like to sail the old locks. Does anyone know which lines go through those? And/or the names of the locks? We’re tentatively booked on Holland America which lists Balboa and Cristobal locks but I can’t find any information about whether they are the old ones.

[CruiserBruce]

Some reading here would answer most of your questions.

 

MOST, but not all ships go through the old locks...like 95% or more of the cruise ships go through the old locks. But it does matter a little on which ship you are on, so can't tell you if your HAL cruise will go through the old or new locks. I would bet on old locks, but HAL does have 3 ships that require the new locks.

 

A Google search shows the 3 sets of old locks are, going from Atlantic to Pacific, are Gatun, Pedro Miguel and Miraflores. The bigger, newer locks are the Cocoli and Aqua Clara. So, from what you are saying, you are going through the old locks, which is what most people, including us, recommend.

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, Dinah1230 said:

We’d like to sail the old locks. Does anyone know which lines go through those? And/or the names of the locks? We’re tentatively booked on Holland America which lists Balboa and Cristobal locks but I can’t find any information about whether they are the old ones.

Balboa and Cristobal are not the names of Panama Canal locks, they are the names of the port cities at the Pacific and Atlantic ends, respectively, of the canal.  What Holland America ship are you considering? The size of the ship determines whether it can use the old locks. 

52 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

. So, from what you are saying, you are going through the old locks, which is what most people, including us, recommend.

No, the poster hasn't said anything that would determine which locks will be used. Balboa and Cristobal are names of port cities and regardless of which set of locks will be used you will be cruising past those ports.

Edited August 23, 2022 by njhorseman

[BillB48]

Please share which ship you are booked on, someone here will be glad to help.  Too often the written descriptions the cruise lines provide and even their customer service reps are not clear in which locks are used.

 

[Essiesmom]

I have scoured cruisetimetables for HAL ships cruising the canal, and all that I found will use the old locks:  Nieuw Amsterdam, Eurodam, Oosterdam, Zuiderdam,  Volendam, Zaandam.  EM

[Laurab23]

We are on Carnival Legend. Will that be the old locks? Someone said cruise ships are no longer using the old locks but I find that hard to believe.

 

Laura

[BillB48]

The Carnival Legend has the dimensions to be able to use the original locks.  So barring some out of the ordinary circumstance you will use the original locks.  Cruise ships are still using the original locks on a regular basis.  What the addition of the new locks has provided is cruise lines larger classes of ships such as Carnival's Conquest class and Princess' Grand class can now transit the Canal.

 

To give you a little idea on how much the original locks are still used, last month over 800 ships used the original while 300 ships used the new locks.

[Ashland]

We'll be sailing (this October) on RCI Serenade from San Pedro to Tampa. Which locks will we use and how long does going through the locks take.

 

We just sailed through the locks on our Arctic Circle cruise out of Amsterdam will this be similar?

[BillB48]

The Serenade fits very snugly into the original locks.  Although it is a very snug fit since she was built to the absolute maximum limits for the original locks.

 

The locks out of Amsterdam are similar in they can compartmentalize different bodies of water in order to move a ship from the ocean to a river or tidal basin for example.  The biggest difference between the locks in Amsterdam and the Panama Canal, is there are more steps up (or down) to get a vessel to the desired water elevation.  In the case of the Panama Canal it is an 85' lift from sea level to the elevation of Gatun Lake.  There will be 3 distinct steps to get up to that elevation and an another 3 distinct steps to bring you back down to sea level at the opposite side of the Canal.  Another item unique to the PC is the use of "mules" which are the electric locomotives which assist in taking ships through the original locks.  The Canal's "stable" has 100 such mules.  Probably the last thing that is on the top of my head would be the original PC locks are twin sets of locks, in other words two identical sets of locks side by side.

 

The old time standard was 8 to 9 hours to transit the Canal.  With larger ships and a greater number of them that time standard is probably closer to 10 to 12 hours for a deep water to deep water transit.  It is still possible for an 8 hour transit, but a lot of stars have to line up just right for that to happen.  If you are talking about getting through the locks only, that answer is a bit more ... it depends.  Since each of the sets of locks different amount of steps, the time can run anywhere between 45 minutes to 1.5 hours.

[chengkp75]

The locks in Antwerp and Amsterdam are not primarily for changing the level of the ship, like the Panama canal locks are.  They are there to prevent salt water entering the rivers and canals during high tides and storms, and low river levels, to keep the salt from the soil.

[junglejane]

How can you tell whether your ship is doing the old locks? We are looking at the Viking Star 10/24/2023 full transit but can't tell.

[BillB48]

The best way is to look at the waterline dimensions, a cruise ship cannot exceed 965'x106' at the waterline to be able to use the original locks, the Viking Star almost certainly will use the original locks since she is 748'x95'.  I always add a caveat that there could  be some circumstance that would cause the a ship that could use the original locks could use the new locks.  While this does happen occasionally other ships that transit the Canal it is extremely rare for a cruise ship that is able to use the original locks not to use the smaller, original locks.

 

The problem with the method I mentioned above in determining which locks a ship will use, is many times web pages reporting on the size of a particular cruise ship will use a figure that will include an extreme figure such as a bridge wing or some other overhang that would not impact the waterline dimension.  If anyone has any doubt you can always find someone to help on Cruise Critic.

Edited September 19, 2022 by BillB48

[NautiCat63]

We will be on the Serenade OTS in November, 2023 (11/21/23 departure).  We definitely would like the experience of seeing the old historic locks since this will be our first Panama Canal cruise. I booked the cruise thinking the ship would definitely be using the old locks but now I’m not so sure. I saw a previous post saying that this ship fits through the old locks but just barely. Is it possible to know if the ship will use the old locks?  Thanks in advance for any input!  

[BillB48]

The Serenade of the Seas will in just about any conceivable circumstances being using the original locks.  It was probably my post on another thread where you saw the "barely" fits comment.  By just barely means in this case the ship is built to take maximum advantage of the size limits  Canal authorities have in place for ships using the original locks.  The chambers for the original locks are nominally 1000'x110' and ships can be up to 965'x106'.  IIRC the Serenade is 962x106, a whole 2' to spare!

 

I generally refrain from making predictions that the ship will use the original locks, only because there could be some set of conditions that may make it necessary to use the new locks.  It has happened before, mostly to cargo vessels that wind up using the new locks even though their dimensions would permit passage through the original locks.  However, it has happened once  where a passenger ship that could fit in the original locks used the new locks.  I just leave a little room for that possibility.  The new locks can only handle about 12 ships a day so the Canal would much rather use the new locks for ships that will generate a much higher toll.  Do I think there is any real chance the Serenade will be diverted through the new locks?  Absolutely not!

[NautiCat63]

Thank you BillB48!  You are clearly very knowledgeable and this information really made my day!  I know you cannot predict 100% but given your understanding of how the system works, your rationale makes complete sense, and it gives me a lot of confidence that we will be able to experience the original locks!  Yay!  By the way, your response is the most pertinent and comprehensive current information I’ve found on this topic (especially regarding Serenade OTS in particular), and I’ve done a fair amount of researching over the past week!  Considering that a lot of people have similar questions, it’s odd that this wouldn’t be included somewhere on the Royal Caribbean website, but it isn’t, which makes your input that much more valuable!  Thank you very much for taking the time to respond—I appreciate it so much!   

[Essiesmom]

The proof is on the previous transits.  Here she is on Oct.11 this year:

 

 

[BillB48]

Thank you for the kind words.  I really think that the cruise lines don't go into detail on the locks they will use  is primarily to leave the description vague if for some reason they had to lock through using the new locks they could have some legal wiggle room not promising something that may be out of their control.  Today's litigious society would no doubt scores of passengers who were irreversibly scared for life because some aspect of the cruise did not occur as the tour description indicated.  I don't have any doubt that you will enjoy your transit using the original locks.

[BillB48]

Here are couple of pictures of the Serenade going into Gatun Locks I took a few years ago.  I was on her sister ship the Radiance transiting that same day.  As you can see she fills the chamber nicely.

 

[NautiCat63]

Thanks to both Essiesmom and BillB48!  That is pretty compelling proof—a picture is worth a thousand words!  🙂

[Hottubmomma]

Hi 

We will be on NCL Sky in 2/2023, I expect that we will be using the old locks, but can anyone confirm?

Thank you

[junglejane]

Just FYI, I'm booked on a Panama canal full transit on the Viking Star in October 2023. I contacted Viking to ask about which locks. I was told that they will always use the old locks if possible, but they cannot guarantee it because the final say is in the hands of the local authorities and is only determined shortly before the actual transit.

 

Basically, my understanding is that a ship that can fit through the old locks will always prefer it because it is cheaper, and will only use the new locks if required to do so due to traffic conditions.

[njhorseman]

41 minutes ago, Hottubmomma said:

Hi 

We will be on NCL Sky in 2/2023, I expect that we will be using the old locks, but can anyone confirm?

Thank you

You should be using the old locks, but there is always the very, very slight possibility of being diverted to the new locks if an operational issue in the canal arises. 

[Hottubmomma]

thanks

 

[theflight74]

Hi,  Would anyone be able to tell us if Brilliance of the Seas on its Panama crossing from the Atlantic to Pacific in April 2023 will go through the new locks or the old locks.  I am not sure the difference between old and new will make to a crossing except old could be more interesting.  Travelling from Ireland it would be great to follow the route my brothers and Father in Law (all ships crew) travelled back in the 1950s.

[Essiesmom]

Other ships of her class have been using the old locks, nut I think I have been told one had some modifications which made her too big.  BillB48 will probably be along to confirm…. EM