Review of Beautiful Bordeaux 11 day cruise on Scenic Diamond from 17 August to 27 August 2022 with comparisons to Viking

[Canal archive]

Thank you Jazzbeau I’ve been wracking my inadequate brain on how to answer. One thing I would say is if there was a concern why not ask! I’ve done that cruise and met up with a wonderful group of Australians who we have met up with again in Bath (one perk of living near a World Heritage Site, oh and meeting up up with a super group of Aussies.

After quit a few tours with Scenic apart from really having a fantastic time we’ve learnt if there’s a question or something you feel is not quite right just ask. 
On that part of the vessel at the front of the boat we’ve sat with, every nationality on board and put the world to rights, who doesn’t, luckily at one time the Japanese couple on boards command of the English language put us all to shame. Yes we all like wine but my remembrance of the cruise differed quite a lot. 
I cannot drink Merlot for some reason one sip and 10 minutes later the most horrendous headache. Okay so why cruise Boudreaux, I quite like my DH. On our first night at dinner our Sommelier and I had an in depth discussion he sorted through the wines on board and we tried the ones with the lowest concentration of the Merlot grape, bingo no headaches super cruise and several others took advantage evidently it worked with non red wine drinkers.

Summing up I like wine and am quite interested in its history but!

[notamermaid]

@pontac Thank you for the very detailed long review. Lots of reading for me to do! Just a few things I have picked up so far and the photos of castles and wine cellars have really increased my wish to see this corner of France.

 

notamermaid

 

[ural guy]

Pontac-  Great write-up, thanks for posting this.  I'm guessing that whatever they were refilling that bottle with didn't cost as much as the labeled drink did.  That's what a dive bar does.  I can't think of a reasonable explanation for this.

 

Canal-  Regarding him asking Scenic for something, the OP did, and it sounds like it involved a bit of jerkiness on part of the bar tender.  The customer on a claimed luxury line asked for something, and he was told that the substitute was just as good.  Doesn't matter if it is, it's not what OP wanted, nor asked for; what was wanted was available, just more effort/expense.  That's lame.

 

On Vantage, they had beans for breakfast, I like them on my eggs.  Next day, no beans.  I asked the head waiter.  No, today is not the day for beans, that was yesterday and tomorrow, we have a scheduled menu.  But I want beans, and they come in a can, why aren't you saying, 'Dude, I got you, give me a minute, beans you shall have.'

 

That didn't happen, I was beanless, and still salty about it today.  It really wasn't the beans, it was the attitude.  He liked it as after that I told him, 'Tu estas el grand hefe, tu trabajando mucho'.  I know I butchered writing that, but it kinda means, 'you are the big boss and work hard'.  He understood my attempt, and loved it.   When I washed dishes in a restaurant, my Dominica bus boys taught me that gem.  The waiter always had a big smile for me after that, but no special beans.

[pontac]

8 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Several of your complaints (no printed dailies or menus, metal water bottles) are signs of Green-ness, not cutbacks.  I don't like them either, but watch out:  they are surely coming to Viking too.

 

That's as maybe, but I am comparing cruises this year.

 

I find it funny how the things adopted for 'greenness' reasons by companies are the ones that save them money.

[pontac]

2 hours ago, Canal archive said:

I’ve done that cruise

With respect, you've not done the cruise I did as it was - how many? - years ago you cruised Bordeaux with Scenic. Cruise offerings and places visited change year by year,

 

2 hours ago, Canal archive said:

I cannot drink Merlot 

On our first night at dinner our Sommelier and I had an in depth discussion he sorted through the wines on board and we tried the ones with the lowest concentration of the Merlot grape

 

There was no Sommelier on board this cruise, but it would not have caused anyone  the work of a moment to find red wines with zero Merlot in them. As I reported, on the first night the 'recommended' wine was Gamay, the L'Amour red was Ventoux, a Carignan, Cinsaut, Grenache, Syrah blend that does not contain any Merlot, there was also a Languedoc Syrah.

 

But Bordeaux reds that don't contain Merlot are indeed rare - Wine Society has one tho, Ch Pitray Cuvee Cabernet Franc, Castillon Côtes de Bordeaux. The 2016 vintage is £12.50 and I can recommend it.

 

So, as you can see the cruise offerings have changed since the one you took.

[loriva]

DH and I sailed Scenic on a Rhine cruise in June 2022.  Your observations and conclusions--would sail Scenic if the itinerary and price are right now that we know to factor in the hyperbole--are very similar to ours.  We'll be on Viking for a Christmas markets on the Elbe trip in December.  Looking forward to making our own comparisons--including Viking's marketing hyperbole--then as first timers with both lines. 

Edited September 7, 2022 by loriva
Typo

[worldtraveller99]

Thank you so much Pontac, that was really interesting. Please may I ask - when you said you selected Bordeaux wines from the wine list with your dinners, did you pay extra for those? I am very suspicious now of "all wines included" cruises, having just returned from a Silversea ocean cruise where the "recommended " wines being poured were a Valpolicella, tasteless Edelzwicker blend etc, all retailing about £8 a bottle - which is entry-level blandness in wine terms now).

 

If one (eg me) does not have the eyesight for using a tiny mobile phone for daily Programmes, menus etc, would they print a copy for you if you had asked?

[Canal archive]

Your absolutely correct I did not join you on your actual cruise but we did enjoy ours just before Covid and regardless I would do it again especially with a 2CV tour as I drove one for fourteen years. It’s interesting getting someone else’s point of view I just wish you had read some of the hints and tips scattered amongst the Scenic threads and roll calls as I think it’s where Jazzbeau got the impression you were new to river cruising or Scenic. So thank you.

[pontac]

3 hours ago, loriva said:

Looking forward to making our own comparisons--including Viking's marketing hyperbole--then as first timers with both lines.

 

I wish you the joy of your cruise. Please do write a comparison of the two  cruise lines. 

 

This board features people with strong preferences for a particular line; it's rare on these boards to hear from someone who has done cruises in the same year with different lines.

 

I know that cruise line offerings change from year to year, so comparing a cruise offering taken this year from Company X with a cruise taken in a past year with Company Y can't be much use. Of course, because offerings change a review of a cruise this year may not be the same next year.

[pontac]

1 hour ago, Canal archive said:

I just wish you had read some of the hints and tips scattered amongst the Scenic threads and roll calls

 

What make you think I haven't?

 

What hints and tips would have been useful? I wrote what I found the differences by between the two cruise lines. If I made a factual mistake, please let me know.

[pontac]

3 hours ago, worldtraveller99 said:

Please may I ask - when you said you selected Bordeaux wines from the wine list with your dinners, did you pay extra for those?

 

No, all drinks were included. The wine menu is in the folder given you at lunch and dinner. There are two pages for food. The menu is usually handed to you  by the waiter and it's open at those two pages, which is why I didn't realise at that first dinner that it was followed by two pages of wines, white, pink and red and one Sauternes.

 

On this Bordeaux cruise most of the wines were from Bordeaux - as it should be - but there were a few from other regions, but all French.

 

The Bordeaux reds were mostly Bordeaux AOC, but there were a couple of St Emilion AOC and one Medoc AOC, see photo below. The whites either Bordeaux or Entre-deux-Mers AOC. The winelist doesn't have vintages, and is not wholly reliable. 

 

The waiters are very eager to fill your glass with the 'recommended' wines, which seem to have in common only that they are mostly cheap brands from Languedoc, but you can stay them pouring and select a wine from the list. I'd say the average retail price (using Winesearcher.com) was about €11.

 

But most people happily took the house wines. I saw very few wines ordered from the list. I think Viking were first in Bordeaux and their early cruises were very wine orientated with their own Sommelier, on board tastings, wines at meals from the appellation were were in and lots of winery visits, but I think they found out people were booking the cruise without having an interest in wine, so they cut back on the wine element, and it sounds like Scenic have done the same, since Canalarchive mentions a Sommelier and all Bordeaux wines on her cruise.

 

The passengers on this cruise didn't have a special interest in wine.

 

 

3 hours ago, worldtraveller99 said:

If one (eg me) does not have the eyesight for using a tiny mobile phone for daily Programmes, menus etc, would they print a copy for you if you had asked?

 

I am sure Reception would print the daily schedule for you, and it also appears on the big screen TV in your cabin.

 

The food and wine menus are prints, handed out at meal times. And since breakfast and lunch is a buffet you can see what's on offer and help yourself.

 

By the way, I have trouble now reading small print so I photograph it with my phone and then expand it so it's large enough to read.

[worldtraveller99]

Thank you Pontac for the information! All sounds good. I am sad that people go to Bordeaux and aren't interested in wine. Oh well!

[pontac]

1 minute ago, worldtraveller99 said:

. I am sad that people go to Bordeaux and aren't interested in wine

 

Me too, but I think so many people who love river cruising have been on so many that to try somewhere new they book Bordeaux. I think it has the least interesting scenery and the cruise just pootles up and down from Bordeaux.

 

I recommend to people thinking of taking  their first river cruise not to start with Bordeaux.

 

But to a wine lover - and especially a Bordeaux wine lover - you are visiting hallowed ground: Pauillac*, Margaux, St Julian, Medoc,  St Emilion, Sauternes!! Be still my beating heart.....

 

*My favourite appellation! See what wine I bought (with my own money) on my first night in Bordeaux - photo on Cruise Day -1

[worldtraveller99]

Tres bon Pontac! 

[3Shelaghs]

WoW! Great fact filled review. Thanks for taking the time to relay so much with included comparisons. It has really given me food for thought.

[need2travel1]

Thanks so much for taking the time to post your review, I really enjoyed it!

[loriva]

4 hours ago, pontac said:

 

Me too, but I think so many people who love river cruising have been on so many that to try somewhere new they book Bordeaux. I think it has the least interesting scenery and the cruise just pootles up and down from Bordeaux.

 

I recommend to people thinking of taking  their first river cruise not to start with Bordeaux.

 

But to a wine lover - and especially a Bordeaux wine lover - you are visiting hallowed ground: Pauillac*, Margaux, St Julian, Medoc,  St Emilion, Sauternes!! Be still my beating heart.....

 

*My favourite appellation! See what wine I bought (with my own money) on my first night in Bordeaux - photo on Cruise Day -1

 

Your wonderful descriptions and photos of the sites visited has led me to add this itinerary to our travel lists.  We've only done two river cruises so far--the Danube with Crystal in October 2021 and the Rhine with Scenic in June 2022--but looking forward to more.  As people on the River Cruising thread say, it is easy to become addicted to river cruising!

 

Thank you again for a very thoughtful and thorough review.

 

[texasstar]

It has been said a number of times, that the cruise director makes the difference between a good cruise and a great cruise.  We were on a Scenic cruise of the Seine in June of this year.  Our cruise director told us that they were instructed that we could read the daily programs on our TV.  She said, "I think people like to have the piece of paper in their hand, and like to take it home, so I am printing the daily program.  It will be in your cabin every evening".  I saw her numerous times go out of her way to make sure that the passengers were safe and taken care of.  She would go off the ship to give directions to a taxi driver to make sure that he understood where the passenger wanted to go.

 

[Host Jazzbeau]

1 hour ago, texasstar said:

It has been said a number of times, that the cruise director makes the difference between a good cruise and a great cruise.  We were on a Scenic cruise of the Seine in June of this year.  Our cruise director told us that they were instructed that we could read the daily programs on our TV.  She said, "I think people like to have the piece of paper in their hand, and like to take it home, so I am printing the daily program.  It will be in your cabin every evening".  I saw her numerous times go out of her way to make sure that the passengers were safe and taken care of.  She would go off the ship to give directions to a taxi driver to make sure that he understood where the passenger wanted to go.

 

I think we had the same CD on our Scenic Seine cruise in April.  She also gave us printed programs every day [which I have kept in my archive], despite the directions from HQ to go all-electronic.  And she also went out of her way to make sure all passengers were taken care of, even when their requests were unusual – or the result of their own stupidity, like my leaving my camera on the bus.  She spent a lot of time – after I had completed the cruise – finding that camera and getting it sent back to me.  [Update for those who have heard this story before today:  it arrived this afternoon!  Safe and sound.]  I can't say enough about what a great CD she is.

 

But it seems that Pontac's assessment of this Bordeaux cruise is fair and balanced for this cruise.  There seem to have been many differences in the quality provided by Scenic on this cruise compared to what we got in Normandy.

 

And I think that some of them were inherent in the itinerary, so I have taken a Bordeaux river cruise off my bucket list, for these reasons:

• It seems to have less sailing than any other river cruise,

• in less-attractive scenery, and

• if you don't want a wine focus you will really miss the point of this itinerary, but

• if you do have a wine focus you may feel constantly fifth-growthed when you wanted a premier-cru experience.

 

Hopefully there will be an ocean cruise in my future with an overnight in Bordeaux.  I think that would provide more enjoyment in less time that a Bordeaux river cruise on any cruise line.

[Canal archive]

Jazz I wish I had your way with words your assessment of the Bordeaux cruise compared with others is absolutely correct. Although we had what many of us on board who were seasoned Scenic travellers considered a CD who was not of the best that we had traveled with and which was we later discovered was supposed to be one of Scenics best. We enjoyed it because it was layed back and relaxed no - it’s 9.15 time to go three mornings in a row and on ours no heavy reference to grape varieties, cru or premier etc. Your right about the vessels that moor up in Bordeaux how about a cruise in this one. It majestically sailed in to the joy of all on its way to the tall ships race, I think it was Dutch.

 

 

Bordeaux harbour is one of the most interesting I’ve ever been in but I suspect it’s when your there!
 

Im so pleased you’ve got your camera back to loose a camera to me would be horrific. 

Edited September 8, 2022 by Canal archive

[worldtraveller99]

I understand what you are saying about a 5th growth only experience, but the river cruise will enable us to taste all Bordeaux wine styles without either of us needing to drive between them. I once came with a girl-friend to Bordeaux, then on the bus to Pauillac for the day, and had booked us to taste at Ch Pichon Baron and Ch Lynch Bages because they were both in Pauillac. I hadn't realised how far apart they were! If I hadn't persuaded a lovely lady, who was the wife of a taxi driver (who had gone in to Bordeaux to work!) to drive us to the 2nd one, we would never have made it!

[ljandgb]

Thank you for the very detailed write up.  I've not sailed Viking or Scenic, so it's nice to hear the comparisons.  My few thoughts are that if you are a serious oenophile, you might not like wine centered cruises - if only because most people aren't THAT knowledgable and so would be quite happy just dipping their toes in the regional wine and the cruise line knows that.  I'd be the second group.  I wouldn't know a Bordeaux from a Burgundy until I read the label, even after I've tasted it.  Have you done a wine centered cruise that you felt lived up to your expectations?  If so, which one?

 

Also, the items you didn't like regarding no paper agendas or endless plastic water bottles are the same things that I do appreciate.  I think that's a generational thing.  I see plastic water bottles sitting out for everyone to take daily, do the math for the whole trip, then multiply that by the number of cruises each ship does, then multiply that by the number of lines on each river, and well, I get a LOT of plastic waste.  Most younger-than-me people (like my 20yo kids) just assume you will have several reusable water bottles that go places with you.  There's a whole economy out there of water bottles and their accoutrements.  I'm in the transition group and have learned to make sure I carry my bottle.  Avalon provided a nice metal bottle, and had a plumbed dispenser by the dining hall.   Finding using an app to read the agenda and the menu preferable to generating hundreds of pieces of paper daily per ship is also surely a generational thing.  I suspect lines that skew "more mature" will hold on to paper and plastic for their customer base longer than some other lines.

[loriva]

Using a reusable water bottle or reading the daily program on your TV or phone (presuming the internet is working well enough to allow the latter) is a matter of personal choice.  Seeing a "magical" Champagne bottle--where a bottle has a level higher than when marked as @pontacreported is something else entirely.  Refilling a wine bottle--with who knows what, presumably not what's on the label as opening a new bottle would be much easier--is an act no cruise line should be doing.  Bartenders on @pontac's cruise also seemed to go out of their way to withhold promised Champagne or substitute something lesser.  This seems particularly absurd on a cruise that is marketed as wine centric.  As I noted in my "live from" and review of the Scenic Jade's Rhine sailing in June 2022, the experience was inconsistent--which is not the mark of a line that bills itself as luxury.  This may still be the remnants of coming back from the COVID shutdown, but it's also telling that two recent reviews--this one and the one by @English Tim--continue to reveal the same issues with service.

[Gourmet Gal]

I appreciate conservation efforts no matter the level of luxury.  I know it can feel less high-end to dine without table cloths, refilling bottles, re-using towels and going digital but the time has come for people to alter behaviors if we are to have hope of slowing down climate change.  It is irrelevant to me if it means a company is spending less.

[mimmy52]

Thank you for your enjoyable review and the photos. I’d go with any line if it meant I could do another river cruise. I doubt that will happen, so I cruise vicariously with reviews.

 

And Jazzbeau, so glad you finally got your camera back. I would be so sad if my camera went missing on a trip.