Wall Street Sinks Carnival

[NMTraveller]

Too much debt...  Did anyone say this?  Yes they did... Duh???

 

What did Wall Street say?  Ahem the same...

 

Risk vs reward.  CCL is high risk/reward.  Place your bets...

 

Not to mention the Federal Reserve putting the brakes on ...  

 

The sinking of Carnival happened several years prior with the shutting down of the cruise lines and the cruise lines borrowing LARGE LARGE amounts of money.

 

I for one hope that they stay afloat, but will not purchase shares as I do not gamble.

 

For those that do I wish the best.

Edited October 1, 2022 by NMTraveller

[mcrcruiser]

4 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

It's beyond the scope of this forum to be having detailed discussions of the stock market other than the impact on cruising. Frankly, I don't come here for stock advice, I want to hear how my cruise is going to be. I almost feel like if CC is going to ban detailed medical discussions (e.g., of COVID), they should also ban detailed stock market discussions.

 

It doesn't really matter to me how the stock market in general is doing (well it does, but not for the purposes of this board) -- what matters HERE is how the fallout will impact the cruise lines I like to to cruise on.

 

HAL has not been a premium line for quite some time, please take off your rose-colored glasses. At best, one could say that HAL, Celebrity and Princess are at the upper end of mass market lines. Premium lines are Azamara and Oceania -- small ship lines, get it?  HAL has clearly signaled that they are not headed in that direction, getting rid of smaller ships and building larger ones.  It's a direction they were already firmly headed in prior to COVID.

 

I believe cruise lines are going to face hard times, and I do not think they should expect customers to stay loyal just because they once really loved a certain line. HAL is not loyal to me as an individual customer, and I don't expect them to be. But some here seem to feel that they need to be loyal to HAL despite the continuing dilution of the product delivered onboard.  It's as if some feel they are married to HAL "for better or worse".

 you are 100% correct   in your  statement imo  .  We see cruise lije like HAL dropping  prices  .We booked the Dec 10th  Mexico cruise in a Handicap balcony cabin  .total cost thru a TA was $1444 plus a $60 OBC on Koningsdam for 7 night s   .It certainly had been a very long time ago that we even came close to that price . We also booked B2B   cruise for March  on Celebrity Soltice   with a handicap balcony  m14 nights for $3600 includes tips , Classic drink pkg & wifi 

BTW if CCL  stock drops below $5 per share most brokers will no longer follow  the stock  

 

 The only thing I hope for is that HAL survives  the CCL business model problems😄

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

 

[Florida_gal_50]

3 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

 you are 100% correct   in your  statement imo  .  We see cruise lije like HAL dropping  prices  .We booked the Dec 10th  Mexico cruise in a Handicap balcony cabin  .total cost thru a TA was $1444 plus a $60 OBC on Koningsdam for 7 night s   .It certainly had been a very long time ago that we even came close to that price . We also booked B2B   cruise for March  on Celebrity Soltice   with a handicap balcony  m14 nights for $3600 includes tips , Classic drink pkg & wifi 

BTW if CCL  stock drops below $5 per share most brokers will no longer follow  the stock  

 

 The only thing I hope for is that HAL survives  the CCL business model problems😄

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Prices in December at that time are pretty cheap on any line.  You can’t compare March to that.  I paid multiples of that price for my cruise in the fall.

[BermudaBound2014]

10 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

It's beyond the scope of this forum to be having detailed discussions of the stock market other than the impact on cruising. Frankly, I don't come here for stock advice, I want to hear how my cruise is going to be. I almost feel like if CC is going to ban detailed medical discussions (e.g., of COVID), they should also ban detailed stock market discussions.

 

Respectfully disagree. No one here is giving stock advice (that I can see), just a general discussion of CCL's financials (which includes the stock price). If you don't want to know how the stock is doing, it's easy enough to ignore threads with a title like "Wall Street Sinks CCL".  I suspect there are many others who prefer to stay informed on the subject.

 

Like it or not, how your "cruise is going to be" is very much tied into CCL's financials, including the stock. They just released a quarterly yesterday that should raise eyebrows of anyone with a CCL cruise booked in the future. 

[LocoLoco1]

We kibitzers here have informed opinions of what we EXPERIENCE onboard and what we $pay$ for that. The boardrooms and bankers see numbers..mostly in RedInk. I for one sense a Corporate business model gone adrift. I’d GLADLY pay more for Cashews vs Peanuts, Pool attendants for water volleyball, and Pool aerobics. Frequent Lecturers by local experts, Capt’s dinners for loyal guests, crew stageshow nights. Musicians strumming and playing here and there. But A recent 3/wk had none of that. That being said, cut-throat competition industry-wide seems to have served up an uninspired experience. Thank goodness my career was in an industry flush with cash. Life was grand…

[BetsyS.]

3 minutes ago, LocoLoco1 said:

We kibitzers here have informed opinions of what we EXPERIENCE onboard and what we $pay$ for that. The boardrooms and bankers see numbers..mostly in RedInk. I for one sense a Corporate business model gone adrift. I’d GLADLY pay more for Cashews vs Peanuts, Pool attendants for water volleyball, and Pool aerobics. Frequent Lecturers by local experts, Capt’s dinners for loyal guests, crew stageshow nights. Musicians strumming and playing here and there. But A recent 3/wk had none of that. That being said, cut-throat competition industry-wide seems to have served up an uninspired experience. Thank goodness my career was in an industry flush with cash. Life was grand…

Years ago on the Veendam, I loved the crew stageshow nights.  The crew 

loved doing it.  The library was big with a librarian and the Yum Yum man 

played the chimes at dinnertime. He gave ginger and mints after dinner.

Those were the days!

[mcrcruiser]

37 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Respectfully disagree. No one here is giving stock advice (that I can see), just a general discussion of CCL's financials (which includes the stock price). If you don't want to know how the stock is doing, it's easy enough to ignore threads with a title like "Wall Street Sinks CCL".  I suspect there are many others who prefer to stay informed on the subject.

 

Like it or not, how your "cruise is going to be" is very much tied into CCL's financials, including the stock. They just released a quarterly yesterday that should raise eyebrows of anyone with a CCL cruise booked in the future. 

We booked 5 cruises starting in Dec 2022 , then March & finally October  2023   .In all 5 cruises we booked out insurance through Squaremouth .com & there we took out insurances that included vendor default , many tears ago there was a cruise line called Renisance cruise  line & the creditors came in & every pax had to vacate that day off those ships . Azamara  & Princess bought some of those  smaller ships  

Can the above happen again ,imo yes  because of the huge debt loads & thin margins 

[HappyInVan]

Wall Street Sinks Carnival???

 

Factually speaking, its the covid pandemic and our response that has crippled the cruise industry. The stock market (many buyers and sellers) is merely channelling money away from CCL because it doesn't like what it sees.

 

In a strong quarter, CCL has only managed to earn $300m before interest, taxes and depreciation. Whilst interest rates are shooting up, and CCL is borrowing at ultra junk bond rates.

 

The current quarter is expected to be relatively weak, and CCL is still trying to get all ships to sail! Just as we enter the flu season.

 

CCL has suffered the worst stock market performance among the big three. Having expanded the fastest, and losing money on 90 ships.

 

IMHO, CCL had the wrong paradigm during the pandemic. Expecting that covid would fade away, and things would return to pre-pandemic $$ normal.

[BermudaBound2014]

2 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

IMHO, CCL had the wrong paradigm during the pandemic. Expecting that covid would fade away, and things would return to pre-pandemic $$ normal.

 

Good points :).

 

I'm curious. How do you think that CCL's 'paradigm' is any different than NCL or RCL? 

 

IMO, the cruises have all pretty much used the same approach to return. The reason CCL is in the worst financial shape is that it's the biggest... by A LOT. When you are losing money on each ship, having more ships sailing is a detriment. 

[cruisemom42]

48 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Respectfully disagree. No one here is giving stock advice (that I can see), just a general discussion of CCL's financials (which includes the stock price). If you don't want to know how the stock is doing, it's easy enough to ignore threads with a title like "Wall Street Sinks CCL".  I suspect there are many others who prefer to stay informed on the subject.

 

Like it or not, how your "cruise is going to be" is very much tied into CCL's financials, including the stock. They just released a quarterly yesterday that should raise eyebrows of anyone with a CCL cruise booked in the future. 

 

You misunderstand me. I'm interested in how CCL's current and projected stock performance influences the onboard experience.

 

I'm NOT interested in what Apple, Facebook, et al are doing relative to CCL or other cruise lines, nor how long people have held their stock or what price they bought or sold at, or their portfolio value. I'm not interested in taking a short position vs. a long one or hearing about the general market meltdown.  Get my drift?

 

 

[mcrcruiser]

6 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Good points :).

 

I'm curious. How do you think that CCL's 'paradigm' is any different than NCL or RCL? 

 

IMO, the cruises have all pretty much used the same approach to return. The reason CCL is in the worst financial shape is that it's the biggest... by A LOT. When you are losing money on each ship, having more ships sailing is a detriment. 

All 3  of these cruise lines have huge debt loads  .Take RCLs new mega  sized ships as a example  .Norwegian also has huge sized ships in their fleet   .Perhaps  the huge ship  thinking could  vow be a thing of the past .

 

 Duel prices are once again going higher .Yes Cruise lines & airlines use hedging contracts ;but ,at some point  they all gave to bite the new bullet 

 

 Probably the most concerning point going forward for any cruise line is  can they get the ships back to capacity  ;as this inflation is taking deep tolls on pax pocket books for leisure travel 

 

 

[mcrcruiser]

7 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

You misunderstand me. I'm interested in how CCL's current and projected stock performance influences the onboard experience.

 

I'm NOT interested in what Apple, Facebook, et al are doing relative to CCL or other cruise lines, nor how long people have held their stock or what price they bought or sold at, or their portfolio value. I'm not interested in taking a short position vs. a long one or hearing about the general market meltdown.  Get my drift?

 

 

Yes how does all these financials  reflect on  the quality of cruising like food quality & variety , entertainment quality  ie  .so where does every one see where the industry id headed & especially HAL ships ?

[CaliforniaAC]

14 hours ago, LocoLoco1 said:

I will still cruise. My 40’s adult children and their friends? ‘Probably not’. The misery of Airplanes, Internet service, not being ‘Green’, no smoke and whatnot makes it not their Cup o Tea they say. Luxury cruising for retirees will have ‘A durable competitive advantage’, for years/decades to come, I think. The generic cruiseline experience? If they’re not $Moneymakers$, maybe not.   

My 40's adult children and their friends have recently cruised, have upcoming cruises, or dreaming of being on a cruise. My grandkids whine about wanting to go on a cruise. And given that the price of a Disneyland trip for the day for a family of four is more than a weekend cruise- or a week long where the kids sail free, they will probably cruise more in the years to come. The cruise industry will find a way to offer profitable generic cruiseline experiences; there's a market for it.

 

[Florida_gal_50]

1 hour ago, LocoLoco1 said:

We kibitzers here have informed opinions of what we EXPERIENCE onboard and what we $pay$ for that. The boardrooms and bankers see numbers..mostly in RedInk. I for one sense a Corporate business model gone adrift. I’d GLADLY pay more for Cashews vs Peanuts, Pool attendants for water volleyball, and Pool aerobics. Frequent Lecturers by local experts, Capt’s dinners for loyal guests, crew stageshow nights. Musicians strumming and playing here and there. But A recent 3/wk had none of that. That being said, cut-throat competition industry-wide seems to have served up an uninspired experience. Thank goodness my career was in an industry flush with cash. Life was grand…

There should be an option to purchase this by those that want that experience.  It means nothing to me.  I pay plenty for my cruises, over $5k usually for the cheapest balcony.  Meanwhile there is a thread for someone that is wondering if a free cruise was a good deal 🙄. This is not related to a casino deal.  They also wondered if they could get have it all for the cruise for $99.

[Tampa Girl]

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Respectfully disagree. No one here is giving stock advice (that I can see), just a general discussion of CCL's financials (which includes the stock price). If you don't want to know how the stock is doing, it's easy enough to ignore threads with a title like "Wall Street Sinks CCL".  I suspect there are many others who prefer to stay informed on the subject.

 

Like it or not, how your "cruise is going to be" is very much tied into CCL's financials, including the stock. They just released a quarterly yesterday that should raise eyebrows of anyone with a CCL cruise booked in the future. 

 

Agree.  CCL's financials are very much of interest to CCL cruisers.  They affect the price of the cruise, possibly the quality of the service, the perks, the quality of shipboard amenities, etc., etc.  Comparing discussions of general medical info re the condition of the parent company ultimately controlling HAL is trying to compare apples and oranges.  I, for one, appreciate this thread because it affects whether or not and when I will book a HAL cruise.

[Florida_gal_50]

16 minutes ago, CaliforniaAC said:

My 40's adult children and their friends have recently cruised, have upcoming cruises, or dreaming of being on a cruise. My grandkids whine about wanting to go on a cruise. And given that the price of a Disneyland trip for the day for a family of four is more than a weekend cruise- or a week long where the kids sail free, they will probably cruise more in the years to come. The cruise industry will find a way to offer profitable generic cruiseline experiences; there's a market for it.

 

While some might not be interested there will be plenty more that are. I work for a company that are building power plants.  I am not confident that our power sources around the world are going to be able to keep up with all the demands.  My electricity goes off frequently as it is for a few hours at a time already and I live in a large city.  What happens when everyone has to plug their cars in to charge?  I see very little excitement for things like electric planes.

[cruisemom42]

22 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

Agree.  CCL's financials are very much of interest to CCL cruisers.  They affect the price of the cruise, possibly the quality of the service, the perks, the quality of shipboard amenities, etc., etc.  Comparing discussions of general medical info re the condition of the parent company ultimately controlling HAL is trying to compare apples and oranges.  I, for one, appreciate this thread because it affects whether or not and when I will book a HAL cruise.

 

Please read my response in post #35....

 

[albingirl]

37 minutes ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

There should be an option to purchase this by those that want that experience.  It means nothing to me.  I pay plenty for my cruises, over $5k usually for the cheapest balcony.  Meanwhile there is a thread for someone that is wondering if a free cruise was a good deal 🙄. This is not related to a casino deal.  They also wondered if they could get have it all for the cruise for $99.

Don't you love that?  Oh, and they put $200 down, can they get it back by OBC.  It slays me.  Oh, not to mention the upgrades they want for pennies on the dollar.

[Florida_gal_50]

8 minutes ago, albingirl said:

Don't you love that?  Oh, and they put $200 down, can they get it back by OBC.  It slays me.  Oh, not to mention the upgrades they want for pennies on the dollar.

Yup, it was shocking.  But, hal seems to love to do this.  They think they are going to build up clientele this way.  It would be interesting to know if that happens.  I just hope they don’t remove the crew appreciation because they want to tip “their people” themselves.

[albingirl]

2 minutes ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

Yup, it was shocking.  But, hal seems to love to do this.  They think they are going to build up clientele this way.  It would be interesting to know if that happens.  I just hope they don’t remove the crew appreciation because they want to tip “their people” themselves.

What HAL does is divide their loyal passengers against all of those sailing for free.  I don't care what anyone else says....it's rather disinheartening to pay many thousands of dollars for cruises and then learn that people are bragging nonstop about their free cabins. They sit at the bar and brag about it.  I had one guy ask me how much I paid for my cruise, since his was free.  The nerve. 

[Florida_gal_50]

2 minutes ago, albingirl said:

What HAL does is divide their loyal passengers against all of those sailing for free.  I don't care what anyone else says....it's rather disinheartening to pay many thousands of dollars for cruises and then learn that people are bragging nonstop about their free cabins. They sit at the bar and brag about it.  I had one guy ask me how much I paid for my cruise, since his was free.  The nerve. 

Yup I've had that happen multiple times when I used to go to the bars more.

[albingirl]

I'm sure I will be flamed for the above, but I don't care anymore.  If you notice, I have a home in Florida and we have some serious issues.  One of my best friends just lost her home completely, in Sanibel.

[Florida_gal_50]

1 minute ago, albingirl said:

I'm sure I will be flamed for the above, but I don't care anymore.  If you notice, I have a home in Florida and we have some serious issues.  One of my best friends just lost her home completely, in Sanibel.

Omg that is terrible.  I forgot you live there for a moment.  Stay safe.  I have my fingers crossed for you.

[albingirl]

3 minutes ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

Omg that is terrible.  I forgot you live there for a moment.  Stay safe.  I have my fingers crossed for you.

Lots of flooding and major disaster.  Thank you.  Friends with no more homes......imagine.  Beyond sad.  Thanks for your kind thoughts.It's one of two homes I own, so I am not there but will be next week.  Very sure to replace alot of stuff wrecked.

[BermudaBound2014]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

You misunderstand me. I'm interested in how CCL's current and projected stock performance influences the onboard experience.

 

I'm NOT interested in what Apple, Facebook, et al are doing relative to CCL or other cruise lines, nor how long people have held their stock or what price they bought or sold at, or their portfolio value. I'm not interested in taking a short position vs. a long one or hearing about the general market meltdown.  Get my drift?

 

 

I still respectfully disagree.
 

You may not be interested In the general market and how people have responded personally (long vs short); however this is all part of the important discussion for Hal cruisers- especially for those who maybe considering purchasing stock. 
 

Instead of trying to stifle discussions that are interesting to many people, how about just scrolling along? Live and let live.